Unemployed husband totally oblivious to my stress

[DeepViper]

My husband hasn't worked for more than three years. I am at the end of my tether with trying to get him to understand our financial situation and how stressed I am. We have two DC aged 11 and 10, one of which has special needs and needs significant care and I have to pay private special school fees. I am British but we live abroad.

I have seen a lawyer about getting a divorce but they advised I might need to pay him alimony given his long-term unemployment and I really can't afford this, already I am going into debt every month trying to cover expenses. We have downsized as much as possible. No car, smaller house, we rent, no assets. He cleaned out all our savings and he sold investments without telling me. I am absolutely distressed about making ends meet each month, not to mention our future. I am starting to hate him. He sits on the sofa all day and watches soap operas.

He tells everyone he's a stay at home dad, but he does nothing. Nothing at all. No cleaning, laundry, school admin, homework. I do it all. He refuses counselling. I have a good job but I work 60-70 hour weeks and can't take on a second job.

How can I get through to him and make him get a job? He refuses counselling. He's 51.

My only option is to take the kids and move home to the UK, but my lawyer advised against doing this without consent. when I mention it, he says absolutely not. And yet... he won't work.

I have spoken to his mother and his friends and they all tell me I should be more sympathetic to his situation because it must be tough for him. I am sorry but my patience has run out.

What on earth do I do?

Yes I was thinking if there was some mid-way solution.

As in - splitting up in Australia and only living with the children in a smaller home to free up some funds?

Then you could still have him help with the children when needed - without funding his life.

Apologies if this has been addressed already.

You need to stop enabling him. No TV, no food, no clothes etc for him - just say, I have no money.

I would engage with domestic violence agencies and report you are being financially and emotionally abuse. Report any spending thefts to the police.

I wonder if the way he disposed of investments and savings could be a police matter?

Hi OP, I know nothing about Austalian law so this is purely thinking-aloud-hypothetical, get legal advice.

However, you CAN divorce him. It sounds terrifying and you will be alone in Australia with your kids (how old are they? Will they legally be able to say where they want to live any time soon?), he and his family will turn on you, but you'll be 100x better off without him leaching the literal life out of you.

He sold assets, spent all the savings, you rent so I assume there is no marital/family home to split. Perversely this makes it easier to leave him because all you really need to sort out is a custody agreement.

THEN, do what so many men appear to do post-divorce: go part-time or low-income or self-employed.

Yes, you may have to pay alimony, and this would absolutely boil my piss. However, if you are providing over 50% of childcare you won't have to pay him CMS equivalent, and when deciding what alimony you should pay, the court will take your income and your ability to provide for the kids into account. If you are part-time/lower-income, they will not take 50% of your income to leave you and your kids in poverty.

You sound like you are at the end of your tether. In terms of practical things you can do right now, can you:

• kick him out? Let his wet family take care of him during this "hard time"
• speak to your employers and let them know that you're thinking of divorce and see if there is any employee support, ask about flexible hours/sick/gardening leave
• keep a diary of everything you do for the kids, do not let him paint himself as primary care giver
• keep track of EVERYTHING you pay for so that if any of it is taken into consideration in a settlement, you can "claw back" some of your investment
• work out what your household budget would be and see if there are cheaper options for your housing locally, or anywhere that you may feasibly relocate to
• contact the local equivalent of Womens Aid or services for victims of financial abuse, start to build up a picture of how far he has abused you financially for any proceedings

The British Consulate may be able to help advise on solicitors who deal with multi-national households - they do advise on estate where I am because the law diverges from UK law - they may be able to point you in the right direction.

I know, I quoted the wrong post.

it's really unbelievable to have ended up with a man like this
I'd say that it's because he is able to see (and therefore exploit) your blind spot.
Seeing that your father has a strong work ethic he will understand (at some level- it might be unconscious rather than a calculated move )that your default assumption is that this is what men are like generally.
He just needed to play the part for long enough to give him time to dig himself in so that you are trapped and you can't get rid of him without causing yourself more problems than you already have.

He would play the grieving widower until another sucker comes along and he can love-bomb and then leech off her.
Don't underestimate his lashing out to punish you if/when you take away his cushy life.

Not for a holiday visit. My best friend secretly sent home everything she valued and brought 3 children to the UK on holiday. Even her overbearing, narcissistic ex could not be bothered to contest this. I guess it’s different depending on the kid’s citizenship.

This thread is a really interesting contrast to all those on Mumsnet telling women with kids that they have to get married for their own financial protection.

I'm so sorry to read this and I hope you're able to make it back to the UK at some point.

In the meantime, are you able to separate and start the divorce process in Australia? Could you potentially move to a new apartment with your children - and just leave him to move in with his family or whoever?

What would he do if you moved to the UK and left him to care for and support the children by himself?

Send them over on the next flight presumably.

It does sound you need to take one step at a time. Separating in Australia first.

move back to UK as a plan but at a later date. Do not listen to people saying just leave the country, that is beyond stupid with your children and makes you in the wrong.

I'm totally on your side OP, but be cautious with cutting him off financially as he could also accuse you of financial abuse.

I hope you find a resolution - it sounds a nightmare!

Except that's not the advice given is it?

It is get married if you will be sacrificing your career progression and pension in order to be the main carer for the children and will be financially dependent on your husband while you take care of the children and do the bulk of the housework.

I've only experienced it second hand, and this experience concerned a move from the US to UK, it's possible that the US is super rigorous about enforcement in a way that Australia isn't, but I can confirm that the Hague Convention is really no joke at all, it's deadly serious, whatever the circumstances you 'abduct' your kids internationally at your absolute peril.

@Mrsbloggz really a very insightful and useful post for those of us who ended up supporting cocklodgers - my father worked incredibly hard to support his family and I thought that was normal and what motivated everyone...

Mumsnet isn't generally keen on women who arse around doing fuck all either.

Most posters recognise unpaid work as work but you have to bloody well do it.

You need advice based on the country your in. People are advising you without knowing the legalities.

@DeepViper Please, be in no doubt, this is abuse. Abuse does not have to be physical, it doesn't have to involve punching or slapping or rape.

Forcing you to work whilst he sits on his arse, stealing and disposing of family money/assets - that is financial abuse, its likely emotional abuse and coercive control too.

Don't get bogged down in trying to quantify 'how' abusive it is or if its more or less abusive than other kinds of abuse or other examples of abusers. That isn't how this works.

This qualifies as 'domestic violence' in Australia.

I don't disagree with this but my concern would be that the Australian courts will side with the man in this situation. Partly because he's native Australian and partly because he's male and my understanding is that Australia is rather a male chauvinist country?
I mean no offence to anyone and am happy to be corrected if wrong!

OP, what would he do out of interest if you said you're leaving, that's it, and if he blocks the kids coming with you, he'll have to take over being primary parent?

Can you ask to me made redundant?
Don't tell him it was voluntary
Squirrel the redundancy payoff away
Find a job in the UK
Suggest you 'try it out' and offer to send money over to Aus
With his consent, leave to 'try it out' (with kids)
Send money over for a couple of months
Sadly, not get through probation period but note that there seem to be 'far more opportunities in the UK'
Find a 'great' school for DS that really supports his needs
Suggest that the marriage is over and that the DC would be much better off being educated in the UK and having fabulous holidays in Australia where he can be a 'Disney' dad with fuck all responsibility.

And go from there?

What happens if you fake his consent for you to come home with the children? You can claim that he agreed as he is depressed, and not working. Then he has changed his mind. but it was too late. You could even send him money to make it look like you still support him.

also def look into how he sold your investments without your approval. Seems the same really

I believe so, but I couldn't leave the kids with him. He knows this. My reason for wanting to come back to the UK is mainly for family support and hoping that my son would be better off in the long term.