Unemployed husband totally oblivious to my stress

[DeepViper]

My husband hasn't worked for more than three years. I am at the end of my tether with trying to get him to understand our financial situation and how stressed I am. We have two DC aged 11 and 10, one of which has special needs and needs significant care and I have to pay private special school fees. I am British but we live abroad.

I have seen a lawyer about getting a divorce but they advised I might need to pay him alimony given his long-term unemployment and I really can't afford this, already I am going into debt every month trying to cover expenses. We have downsized as much as possible. No car, smaller house, we rent, no assets. He cleaned out all our savings and he sold investments without telling me. I am absolutely distressed about making ends meet each month, not to mention our future. I am starting to hate him. He sits on the sofa all day and watches soap operas.

He tells everyone he's a stay at home dad, but he does nothing. Nothing at all. No cleaning, laundry, school admin, homework. I do it all. He refuses counselling. I have a good job but I work 60-70 hour weeks and can't take on a second job.

How can I get through to him and make him get a job? He refuses counselling. He's 51.

My only option is to take the kids and move home to the UK, but my lawyer advised against doing this without consent. when I mention it, he says absolutely not. And yet... he won't work.

I have spoken to his mother and his friends and they all tell me I should be more sympathetic to his situation because it must be tough for him. I am sorry but my patience has run out.

What on earth do I do?

Yes, get moving on a divorce straight away. It will cost you even more the longer you delay.

Please RTFT

She knows she absolutely CANNOT do this

What about quitting your job (temporarily) and then divorcing him so that neither of you are in a position to pay alimony? Then get a job back in the UK and offer not to pursue child suppirt if he lets you move with them? Maybe moving crabwise makes the most sense.

@DeepViper
my husband did this on me. I could have written this, but I’m in the UK.
This. Is. Financial. Abuse.

Same - he was let go in lockdown. Did nothing nearly years. I had to go back early off maternity leave. I’ve still not recovered from the knackeredness.

I first started loads of ultimatums which failed: with asking him to apply for jobs. He didn’t. Then I said he needs to apply for a minimum of 5 jobs a week. He didn’t. Then I said go to a recruiter, he didn’t. Months and months went by if the same.

Then one day, I told him I didn’t find this attractive. I don’t see what’s in this for me. I wanted a divorce. And that he was to move out. He refused, then I said I would and leave him with the mortgage. I said this calmly, not angrily. I was done. I really was.

Idiot had a job within a month.

tbh, I still don’t fancy him since that happened… I’m giving us time to see if our relationship recovers.

DO NOT move back to the UK with the children without his consent. It is child abduction.
Tje only thing I can think about is something on the linea of telling him your job is making redundancies and will let you go so you're applying for jobs in Auatrali and the UK and if you get offered one in he UK family will need ro move there... If he wants to apply for jobs in Australia too, then great you can stay there with you unemployed until something comes up for you.
I would then only apply for UK jobs and when getting an offer would tell him this is what is on the table and family needs to move.
Might be far fetched though.... but I see you are in a tough situation.

Go and speak to the British embassy or consulate in the country you’re currently in. They can give you advice on how you can escape this abusive man. They can also help you find out where you stand legally with regards to returning to the UK with the children. Depending on where you are and the nationality of the children, you may not be legally entitled to return to the UK with them, especially without the father’s consent. If you do any your not legally entitled to, you could end up facing very serious child abduction charges. So, please don’t do that. Seek help first.

Does he care about the kids though?

Because a caring father would either work, try to find work, or work in the house, cooking, cleaning, actually caring for his family.

You've mentioned that he won't "give up the kids", but how does he think he would care for them, physically and financially??

What would happen if you had to work away for a week and he had to look after the kids, could he do it?

You mentioned inheritance OP, it seems likely that he'll be regarding this as his pension and that's why he feels he can retire.

The problem with it is that this set up suits him so he might want alimony and he might stop you taking the DC out of spite.

But in the long run it might be worth divorcing him even if you have to pay some alimony and stay there. You could prove he didn't take care of the DC like childcare receipts? So his SAHP won't stand up.

I don't believe he is a good DF. A good DF provides for their DC and he has no intention of doing so. I think he thinks he's retired.

You’d lawyer soubds crap. A lawyer should fight (legally) for you to get what you want, get what you need, get what is best for the kids

You cannot help him get a job. If he wanted to work he woukd. Give up on that idea now, it won’t happen.

You cannot abduct the kids. Obviously.

you can get another job, nobody can stop you.

you can divorce. Even if you have to pay some alimony, and I really doubt you’d have to pay your H a lot of alimony if he does zero child care..

but get a lawyer to look at that. Not the wet lettuce you have now, but a pitbull type

What a shit situation. I think if I were you I would start applying for jobs in the UK that are better paid than where you are. tell DH that due to his lack of effort, it has become impossible to survive where you are, and you need to go where the higher paid work is to make ends meet. If he wants you and the kids to stay, then he needs to provide an income otherwise you need to go where the higher paid jobs are. Good luck - what a horrible situation for you x

Having to pay a childminder to mind two children, while you came back to the UK for your mums funeral, would surely indicate to any court that your OH is absolutely incapable of being the full time SAHP.

Document everything....Record his refusal to contribute to their daily activities of living, his total lack of support for you. You need to weaponise his inactivity as evidence for the court.

Seriousy do go down the abuse road and turf the cocklodger out of his comfortable parasitic existence.

WTF is up with the courts in Aus? I would just personally give notice to your current landlord and rent a place solely for you and the children, move out and stop all funds to him once you have sufficient evidence. What a tosser!

Your lawyer is an idiot

How can you make someone get a job when they have no intention of doing so?

Doesn’t sound idiotic at all. It makes sense - if he has a job he can’t claim he’s a SAHD who needs to be supported.

So it was good advice to try.

This isn’t Suits, lawyers can only work with what they have - the law & the facts at hand.

When you get a second opinion with the legal advice be sure to ask how having a disabled child factors. Maybe that will be justification to get you out of paying the alimony. Particularly when you have proof you paid a childminder when you attended your parents funeral etc to show he's not caring for the children. Do you tell the solicitor this when you saw them or did they just assume there are no childcare costs and kids dad is doing school runs?

I do think this looks like financial abuse as he cleared out savings without your knowledge. You should ask a solicitor about that too.

Don't break the tv but if it breaks itself don't replace it. If you are working 60-70 hours and also doing all housework etc do you even watch tv? Do Australians have a tv license? Cancel everything. Tell him it's because you can't afford to pay for it. Let your stress show but frame it as financial worries not unhappiness in the relationship. Worry out loud about your joint retirement finances. Have him believing you are not trying to leave him. That's not exactly a lie is it you can't keep on working as much as you are forever, maybe tell him you realise the financial stress has made you fall out of love so you are reducing spending to get the love back. It's not a lie that the financial stress damaged your feelings for him either is it. Don't renew his phone contract. Don't become financially abusive yourself- I don't think stopping paying for everything but his food is financially abusive. Financial abuse is what he has done wipe out your money. If you stopped him working to pay for these things you would be abusive but the whole point is you want him to get a job.

If you make his food start making the absolute basic shit then when he spends some time looking for work make a nicer meal. Tell him you wanted to make him feel good as him looking for work made you feel good. Train him. Then treat him every interview he does etc.

I wasn't in Australia and we had no children but my financially abusive ex used to wipe out our account every time I was paid and kept it in the overdraft. I could not get my name off it while it was overdrawn so I faked a rekindling of our relationship. Worked 2 extra jobs but said it was one extra. Then got paid for that secret job into a different account so I had more coming in than he knew. then transferred the money to clear the overdraft and distracted him for the days it took to get my name off that account. It made my skin crawl but having him think I wanted to be with him made him less vigilant, maybe a similar tactic can be of use to you, have him believe you genuinely cannot afford anything but want to be together, he is selfish so gets the job to pay for his phone and his tv for his soaps etc. then when it won't cripple you with alimony you walk away.

I'm so sorry this is happening to you and the children. I'm angry in your behalf.

What happens if you stop working 60 hour weeks?

Assuming he doesn't step up.

Lose the rental/car etc ?? Then leave... And then rent somewhere small on a much smaller income? (Would that avoid the alimony possibility? )

Sorry. What an awful situation. What a fucking lazy shit. And a disgrace of a man.

Divorce him. Don't kidnap his children

@DeepViper you need to divorce him in Australia. Ask your lawyer what your next best option is, given that this waste of is just waiting for the pay off.

I'd look at what support you're entitled to for your SN dc if you're both not working. If you've got nothing, what maintenance can you pay? He's ransacked your savings.

Get out as fast as possible, by any means. The longer you tread water now the more time wasted in the end.

You aren't going to get his cooperation unless it suits him, so give up on that.

There's the legal position and then there's what he would be bothered to do. For the Hague Convention, he'd have to be bothered to apply to the court.

OP, what I would be very tempted to do in your situation would be to give up your lease and bring the kids back to the UK for a holiday with his consent (obtained by threatening to leave both children with him without a childminder). Then tell him that you have a new job and you're staying put in the UK, and does he want the kids to stay with you or will he be picking them up from the airport? You can't be accused of abducting your children if you're offering to return them in accordance with the original agreement. A man who can't even care for his kids for a few days without a childminder is most likely not going to go for this, especially if he has no money and nowhere to house them.

I agree the sensible solution though is probably to progress the divorce and then apply for permission to relocate.

Tell him you can't pay private schooling over there anymore, you have done some sums and you all have to move to the UK. Show him the ' sums'

Tell him you veed to take the dc to uk and find a school for Sept so need to leave in 3 months max.

Arrive bavk in uk, or stay with family. Get children sorted out. Apply for divorce in the uk pdq.

I’d strongly suggest you remove the fuse from the TV plug and see what happens tomorrow. Can he get off his arse to investigate why it won’t work?

@DeepViper

Well you're definitely between a rock and a hard place, at least for now.

Now, you need to go 'stealth'. For now, back off mentioning divorce. But start copious documentation of your time and responsibility for the DC vs his. School runs, morning and night time 'routines', medical/dental appointments, who watches them when they're ill, etc. I'm sure you get the drift. Especially if you have to pay childcare for them when he is home and 'free' to watch them. Just do your documenting and your due diligence regarding spending. And see a different attorney. It's no different than seeking a second opinion on a medical issue.

I think you need to go 'nuclear'. What I'd do is to make him as 'uncomfortable' as possible. That means withdrawing all domestic services. No shopping/purchases, no cash, no laundry, no cleaning, no 'admin', cancel any and all 'specials' like TV packages, gyms, hobbies, booze (hit him where it hurts lol), no takeaways, cooking only for yourself and DC, and if possible move to another room (and all that implies). Shut down the joint account, cancel any CCs you can or remove your name. You need to remove access to money. He needs to be 'fed' so buy food (he can do his own cooking) but you don't have to provide 'luxuries'. In essence, you become 'roommates'.

This isn't to get him to agree to you moving back to the UK, but to make him understand that the 'free ride' is over and he needs to get a job. Will it work? I don't know. If he doesn't get a job then the next point is to make him understand that the marriage is over. Once that gets through his thick head you can begin the negotiations for the physical separation and then divorce.

This is a marathon, not a sprint.

He perhaps can't be made to get a job but I would also think that Op can't be made to support him indefinitely either.

It's pretty obvious that he has only been dependent on her since he lost his last job.

Plus if he has applied for jobs that shows that he is capable & able to work doesn't it?

I object to both parents being 'expected' to work, by which is meant paid work. I stayed at home with my DC till my DS was ten. I ran the house, did all the childcare, social stuff, budgeting, paying bills, most of the gardening, cooking etc. I certainly worked, but it wasn't paid. Ex (that's one reason he's ex) considered what I did unimportant - it just slipped out one day that since nothing I did was paid work it did not count.
OP's DH is a useless piece of excrement and she should leave him because he is not doing anything to help her, however. He's useless.