Married to someone with Asperger's/ASD/ND: support thread 14

[Daftasabroom]

New thread.
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This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. Some of us are ND ourselves, very many of us have ND children. It is a support thread, and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.
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It's complicated and it's emotional.
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The old thread is here.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5183563-married-to-someone-with-aspergersasdnd-support-thread-13?page=1

The grandiosity is an odd thing to contemplate! I don’t see it in all of the autistic people in my family at all.

My dad doesn’t boast at all. Ever. But I think he simply doesn’t struggle with low self esteem. He doesn’t question himself, if people don’t like him it doesn’t bother him. Therefore he seems pretty comfortable with who he is. So no boasting or grandiosity required. He does criticise people all the time. But he also compliments people (to excess!) if he thinks they’ve done something well. Perhaps he feels that his judgement is important! Judging us all, passing his comments. A superiority of sorts! But I don’t think he thinks he is better than anyone. Apart from people who vote Conservative. He definitely thinks he is better than them!! (And there we agree!!!)

My SIL does suffer considerably with thinking she is being criticised and is extremely defensive at all times. Hers is a more subtle form of boasting. It’s not the puffing out the chest kind. She is seeking validation. And is always convinced her way of doing things is the right way, and she needs to have it constantly reaffirmed how very well she is doing and how right she is. Less “look at meeee!!!! I’m the best!!!!” And more “I did this because I am right, aren’t I? See how my way is best? See that I was right? Aren’t I? See how what a good parent/wife/friend/employee I am!!” I think this comes from self doubt and a need to big oneself up in order to get validation.

My DSS boasts rather like a small child. Although he is teen. The puffing out the chest and proclaiming how much better he is than others at things. But he has low self esteem also. I think this may have come about because my DP had it in mind that his son was some kind of genius and went about boasting to everyone how clever he was, even though he was only 2! DSS was raised to think he was incredible! And of course when he went to school and couldn’t keep up with the other children who in Y1 were reading and writing and adding up….it was a long way to fall! And it damaged his self esteem irreparably. So he boasts because I think he feels like he isn’t good at anything. And he also seems not to have a single nice thing to say about anyone. It’s constant criticism all the time of everyone. Sneering comments about how rubbish everyone is. I can’t watch TV in the same room as him anymore as it’s just a barrage of sneering at everyone on the screen!

DP also boasts like a child. I’ve always found this strange about him. How important he is at work, how attractive he is, how many friends he has, how much money he spent on a thing….as I say, very childlike boasting. Cringey. Although he lacks the social compass to recognise this. Unlike the others I cannot fathom whether this comes from low self esteem or not. Seemingly it must do. Why else would someone feel the need to go on about these things to other people?! I think he must suffer with self doubt (though he hides this extremely well!!) and I think this is him trying to convince everyone how amazing he is. I also think he must lurch between genuinely believing he is amazing and feeling the need to convince others of his amazingness. This is why I think so many people think he’s a narc. He genuinely comes across, not as a vulnerable person seeking validation, but as extremely arrogant. The superiority is high with this one! He, like his son, feels the need to criticise and criticise and criticise. And I have always struggled as to where this comes from. I feel like it must be low self esteem, but it really doesn’t come across like that!

TLDR: the grandiosity and superiority is a very complex issue. It’s not universal and I think comes from very different places depending on the individual.

I wonder if co-morbidities have an impact, DH is undiagnosed Autistic (big family history and DS is diagnosed AuDHD) and recently diagnosed ADHD. DH suffers from imposter syndrome and rejection sensitivity and wouldn't dream of lording it over anyone else. But I think those two are more common in ADHD. 🤷🏻‍♀️

I know.
And tbh this is exactly my own experience too…

I think my DH used to hide his need for rigidity under the guise of good taste and superior judgement. Things like: “only this particular coffee / music / clothing will do because it’s the best” = a form of masking. In reality “I need to restrict myself to these tolerable choices / my special interests”.

A form of adaptive behaviour initially I guess, in the (sometimes brutal) throes of adolescence. More problematic as a partner if it ends up meaning that your choices are de facto dismissed and the underlying rigidity can never be understood or worked on.

Yes. I've been told "I'm not prepared to compromise".

@SleepDeprivedElf that makes a lot of sense. I suppose it feels like the best because it makes them feel happy. In the need for control and routine perhaps that feeling gets mistaken for better or perhaps they actively trying to get change out of you so you behave in a way they can manage. Perhaps they think if they word it that it’s the best they we will think oh yeah you are right. I suppose logically it makes sense to do what’s “best” but then this is very dependent on how you feel about something and that’s something that they don’t consider.

That was such a profound thing to have heard and has actually made my situation with family member make a lot more sense. In a way they are trying to dictate and it feels train me so that I behave in a way that they can make sense of. I feel completely ostracised by a large part of my family because I don’t act in the ways they keep saying is “best”. I am trained to not talk about how I feel and to just smile and happily carry on. Half the family have this weird nervous smile and meet ups feel very false.

I wonder if that’s the cross neurotype experience: one person thinks ‘why are you training me to behave in a way that makes sense to you’ and the other ‘no why are YOU training me to make behave…’.

It is so tiring. That’s all I’m sure about.

DH is presently in burnout. As much as I feel for him, I can barely handle so much misery. It’s just too much, too often. I’ve asked him to at least see the mixed picture, that there are positives. The conversation didn’t go that well. But it didn’t go as badly as it would have pre-diagnosis. Is that progress?!

I could go to bed and not get up. January can do one as well.

@SleepDeprivedElf it is exhausting that’s for sure and such a waste of energy and headspace really because none of us can make another see something they don’t or can’t want to. I’ve pretty much just walked away from half my family as it doesn’t work. January has been going on for months now!

Morning “chat”…..

Me: (asks question about something to do with the DC)

DP: (gives evasive answer that doesn’t answer my question)

Me: yes but I don’t understand how that’s come about. I’m worried I’ve miscommunicated with parent of the DD’s friend now and now they’re out of pocket!

DP: (shouting) I ALREADY TOLD YOU!!!! (Repeats evasive answer).

Me: why are you shouting at me?

DP: BECAUSE YOU’RE NOT LISTENING TO ME!

Me: I did listen to you. I heard every word. I still didn’t understand. That’s why I asked the question I asked.

DP: IF YOU’D LISTENED THEN YOU WOULD HAVE UNDERSTOOD!!!!

Me: No! It wasn’t because I hadn’t listened. I had listened and I still didn’t understand. Sometimes people hear what you’re saying but they’re still not clear. You shouldn’t assume they must not be listening and start shouting at them! It’s not a criticism of you. You don’t need to shout. Sometimes people ask questions because things aren’t clear to them. Not because they haven’t listened. It’s unjust of you to shout at me simply because I asked a question!

DP: you’re repeating yourself!

Sound familiar anyone?? Why do they think the only reason someone has a question about something is because they can’t have listened? Why shout? Is it continually being frustrated that people don’t seem to understand them all the time? Is it that they think people are suggesting they’ve not been clear and see people asking for clarification as criticism? Is it the sufferance at how stupid everyone must be because obviously they’ve been clear and people must be stupid / not listening all the time? All of the above? Just trying to understand why a simple exchange where one person asks a clarifying question immediately results in them getting shouted at. Why would anyone think that’s an appropriate response? Ugh!

Had a "superiority" moment from DH yesterday.
He had just taken DS to his sports club (DH takes him on a Friday because it starts later and on a Saturday - when he's not working)
Then starts talking about Axel Rudakubana, saying I wonder what his childhood was like, I bet his parents didn't take him to activities....WTAF??? And trying to infer this was down to poor parenting. It made me furious.

He moans at DS for being on his Xbox or watching videos online....but he never asks or engages what the videos are (usually people talking about playing video games, or talking about F1), I try to engage DS in card games, encourage another activity, take him out somewhere, or give him chores to do to get a break from screen time. DH rarely offers an alternative thing. If I suggest they go on a bike ride or play golf for example DH has often got an excuse why they can't.
He doesnt asks where he's going, (or if he does, doesnt properly listen to the answer) or what he's doing. He probably knows who 2 friends are but not his wider circle of friends. Even when DS is telling us about something at school/his opinion, DH regularly butt's in and interrupts, or just leaves the room seemingly unaware, or uninterested that DS is talking..... and yet desperate to feel superior to the killers parents because he had literally just taken our son to his sports lesson!

Honestly not sure how much longer I can put up with DH lack of empathy. It is becoming unbearable 💔 I have zero emotional support. I may as well be single or invisible.

Very annoying and very typical out down of others in order to feel superior. Added in the hypocrisy element of criticising parenting but not actually being a very engaged parent themselves. Sympathies.

This is very hard. If you can emotionally detach (see those posters @Apex3 and @SpecialMangeTout i think) who have zero expectation. Carve out whatever happiness you can get from elsewhere (hobbies, friends, children, projects, walks, exercise, books…..) or leave if you can. I’m afraid those seem to be the only choices you may have. I’m sorry. It sounds very lonely. We are here if you want to talk….. xx

You have my sympathy x

So sorry, it's really hard 🫂 It takes time and a reframing of how you think but it seems that detaching is perhaps the only option, if leaving isn't. Start small by finding a few things that you enjoy doing outside of your marriage/family life, to fulfill the needs that your DH can't.

Can I have some refraining/detaching advice please? Pop back later just going out on the garden for an hour to nourish my sole :-)

I think finding your happy place is probably the best way? So if that’s gardening do that. Perhaps also creating as much of a life away from your OH as possible, be that hobbies, going out with friends. I’ve had relationships where the people were emotionally avoidant to an abusive level (not sure if ND) and it really breaks you over time. Having other things going on that reminded me what was normal was do
important until I worked up the strength to leave. I would say if you’re deeply unhappy then get out if that’s at all possible, although I understand from the experiences posters have shared that’s not always possible xx

I have a slightly random question. I have a (previously very close) friend I believe is ND. Lots of traits of ASD over time (I’m interested in this topic as I’m ND and likely have an ND partner and loved ones.) I feel like her personality really changed in the last few years, or should I say, there has been a magnification of certain traits which were maybe more balanced before. Also previously she did seem to be able to listen to how others were feeling and adjust behaviour if they explained they were upset, for example. Last few years she’s really focused on her special interests/projects to exclusion of friends and when I tried to explain how I was feeling (sad we were no longer close) she didn’t take it onboard. Now if it was someone else I would assume they were trying to fade out the friendship but she really isn’t-bought be a (unexpected Christmas present) and keeps sending high level texts every few weeks telling me what she’s doing. Sadly the friendship really isn’t working for me now, but I’m just wondering if there’s a better way to handle it (either reinvigorate the friendship or let it finally die) assuming she has ASD? Is it possible she was previously masking but has stopped in the last few years for whatever reason? Maybe she just can’t really be bothered to be friends but wants to avoid conflict. Welcome any thoughts x

When DP was being very difficult (he goes through phases!) I had to stop myself going over and over how awful he was being in my mind. It was probably the worst thing to do because it just made me feel shit and overwhelmed with sorrow. Things which helped me:

Physically remove myself from the house - take my brain (literally) elsewhere and occupy it with something.

Hard exercise - much harder to dwell on overwhelming feelings if you’re running!

Yoga and breath work - helps to feel calm. I have cried so many tears on my yoga mat (my yoga studio is nice and dark and no one can tell!)

Have a rant (on here, to a close friend) and then move on - this works well for me as I often just need to get something out my system then I feel OK.

Imagining I’m single or that DP is just a lodger. Not someone who has power over my emotions.

Opening up to my friends and family and being honest - helps to feel less lonely. I used to hide everything and pretend it was all fine because I felt embarrassed.

Journalling - sounds corny, but forcing yourself to think of a couple of things which you’re grateful for every day (different things each day) makes you stop taking small things for granted and makes you remember the relationship isn’t everything. It’s not your whole life. It’s one aspect.

I don’t know if those are helpful. I suppose they’re coping strategies as much as anythjng. @apex speaks about detaching and how things have improved. Having no expectations. Although it is lonely to have live that way in a relationship. Leaving or staying. Both are very hard. Xx

Hard to answer without knowing her. I would say that I think ND traits become more heightened with age. Is that the mask starting to come away as we get older and care less? Fatigue with trying to meet others’ expectations? Or perhaps, in my case anyway, I know myself better. I am comfortable with who I am. I know my plus points and my limitations. My likes and dislikes. Perhaps she’s just more comfortable. Menopause / peri can also exacerbate traits.

If she is autistic, do you think you were direct enough when you explained you felt sad you weren’t so close anymore? Was the connection between her spending so much time on her special interest and your feelings made unequivocally clear? She may not have realised this was what you meant otherwise.

Yes I was wondering if as she’s got older with more responsibilities she has less bandwidth to mask. Unfortunately she doesn’t seem to have much self awareness (did ask if she feels she doesn’t want a close friendship any more, have things changed for her etc. and answers all no.)

Although she can be quite opinionated and blunt she can Aldi her upset and angry quite easily so I was trying to be kind and soften things. She still felt “told off” even though I made clear I wasn’t doing that just trying to explain my feelings. I suspect I wasn’t direct enough though.

BustyLaRoux

Thank you, that really helps 😊

Thinking of DH as a lodger is definitely a tactic I shall try.

I shall rant on here, none of my friends have a DH like mine so hard for them to understand!

Billnben

Slowly building up life away from DH. I do a lot on my own already. This time last year I didn't do things because of DH but had enough of that now.

For me, this meant reassessing what my marriage would look like.
So I started with a pretty normal view of what marriage involves, which includes caring for the other person, being their cheerleader, listening (and being listened to/heard) p. Pretty basic stuff.
And I’ve had to review what dh can actually do. Avoiding finger pointing and blame has always been my aim - on the ground that I can’t blame him for having a disability. And it would be pretty hypocritical of me to do so when I’m disabled myself and I need dh to adjust around it too!
And the bottom line is

• he can’t do working as a team and finding solution collaboratively
• He is crap at reading situations and inferring what sort of support I might need.
• He can’t put himself in my shoes (and tbf very few people can)

So I’ve accepted that we live parallel lives rather than working as a team. There is no other way to make it work for us tbh. Im not expecting ANY support from dh. I’ve become much clearer about my needs - both to myself and to DH.

I think acknowledging that my marriage would never be a ‘normal’ marriage was key to the ‘distancing’. It’s not that much that I’ve created some distance but that I’m not trying to get something that will never happen. And getting frustrated and hurt in the process.

This way to envisage marriage works for me just now. I think that if you want/need something different and it’s a line in the sand to not get over for you, then you shouldn’t force it iyswim.

I also agree about not letting dh take over my emotions.

eg I was often triggered by dh getting moody. I now remind myself that it’s his emotions, up to him to deal with them. I’m not responsible for them, nor can i solve the issue anyway.
And if he has an issue with me/what i do, he needs to talk. im not a mind reader (something ive had to remind him many times).

My experience is that by creating a low demand environment and not reacting emotionally to his emotional outbursts, then dh is better able to self regulate. And in turn, it makes him much nicer to live with!