Married to someone with Asperger's/ASD/ND: support thread 14

[Daftasabroom]

New thread.
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This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. Some of us are ND ourselves, very many of us have ND children. It is a support thread, and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.
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It's complicated and it's emotional.
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The old thread is here.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5183563-married-to-someone-with-aspergersasdnd-support-thread-13?page=1

Makes a lot of sense thanks.

@Georgeismydog get all the drugs! Seriously peri made my friend damn near suicidal as soon as she started HRT she improved. Her moods became much more even and she felt like she could cope again. I doubt there is anything you can do to make your DH understand so helping yourself to feel better is the way forward. Don't be fobbed off and don't settle for anti depressants.
Plus if you've got good friends lean on them, the next few months sound like they could be tough, so really look after yourself and don't expect support from DH it will be easier to find it elsewhere.

Pashazade I'm on HRT, tears are less frequent but still too much for DH. I've felt suicidal at times too. Menopause is wretched.

I have a few friends to lean on, not masses. I try and rotate which ones I lean on as we all have our own problems.

Do you need to get your dosages tweaked, mix and match patches/gels the suicidal stuff shouldn't be a feature still if the balance is right.
Have you said to DH that you don't need him to fix things but just to let you vent and then give you a hug at the end? Mine is a fixer and it took a while to figure out that he thought that was being helpful when I just needed him to listen. So perhaps if you make it clear that your tears aren't demanding anything of him you just need him to be present with you so you feel less alone with the challenges you're facing in a literal way, even though you know there is nothing he can actually do to improve the situation, it might make him less panicky and less inclined to try and stop or ignore you?
Apologies if you have tried all this already

My partner is like this with emotions and fixing. It’s like he feels obliged and then resentful that he needs to fix my emotions or anyone’s emotions. I keep having to tell him I’m not looking for any fixing only an ear. He literally can’t fathom that a person has a feeling and that this doesn’t need a fix. Emotions aren’t a by product of a faulty person and if you fix it them that person is unfaulty. I fear in my own case his mum who is definitely ASD or avoidant attached has taught him never to need another person for anything and that includes emotionally. It’s sad as he never expresses anything to me but I can tell when he is stressed.

sharing emotions builds trust on both sides.

Pashazade I'm 100% gel. Suicidal thoughts are less often but still creep in especially during the winter months as I suffer with depression. My DH is a fixer too, and I'm adapting to that. I have to be really clear with my needs.

Rainbow03

@Georgeismydog my partner gives me a hug and it does make me laugh sometimes because he is only doing it out of necessity not because he gets why at all. I don’t dare ask why he thinks I need a hug because I know he’ll say because isn’t that what I’m supposed to do then get quite confused. It must he difficult never quite knowing how to respond. If in doubt I’ve said told him just hug and chocolate lol

Rainbow03 snap, mine hugs but has no idea why too.

I’m an ADHD woman and my DP has ADHD, while we both have Asperger traits.

So same brains and different genders. Our behavior and self management are very different because they have to be. An ND man often carries and uses a lot of male privilege. NT woman partners I think need to be highly aware of this.

I go through life very conscious of how ADHD might be causing me to let myself down and determined to manage it. DP believes it is who he is and no one must deny him his right to interrupt, impulsively say the wrong thing, be late, miss deadlines or fail to plan. He reckons being ND is a disability that entitles him to special treatment. I ask for reasonable adjustments if I have to but do not for example believe I should not have to queue up in airports just because theoretically I can jump a queue. I’m happy standing listening to a podcast. There are not enough sunflower lanyards or workplace adjustments available in the world for DP.

I realise it’s easiest for me to make impulsive unilateral decisions but I hold myself to a higher standard. I know I have to ask friends and family what/where how is convenient for them. I know I have to tend to friendships wtih regular checkins and small talk. I know I need to ask questions and check if I am dominating a conversation.

DP doesn’t look friends up for years then will randomly say X is in Manchester and I’m going there for work so I will ask X to put me up for the night. I ask when was the last time he offered to help X out or checked in with X. He says he doesn’t do that because he’s ND. When friends fade away he is sad they didn’t understand his disability well enough.

I have been able to convince DP with enormous amounts of explanation and logic that I am not an extension of him who naturally wants to do the same things, keep the same hours, eat the meals he likes etc. But he seems still quite baffled by this. Usually my best route to reminding him not to book things for me is by just saying as you didn’t check and I don’t fancy it I won’t be going. He has now written ‘check decisions’ on his office wall.

I know that I am inclined to react to perceived criticism aggressively but also that as a woman I would be harshly judged for this with huge consequences. So when it happens and I feel the red mist descending I do square breathing or count down from 5. DP just goes on defence-offence. He’ll apologise once he calms down cos he’s not actually a narcissist but I forgive those who mistake him for one. He’s actually never been disciplined at work for going full toxic word salad during an appraisal. I would have been tho. So I’ve learned how not to do it.

The problem isn’t being ND. It’s how we manage it. Men IMO have much less incentive to manage it. Women, institutions and entire societies enable them not to. Oh that poor disabled man. So brave and misunderstood. I expect none of them are on an online forum somewhere trying to work out how to be better for us. All the emotional labour is ours.

Those ASD men who choose to identify as women. No judgment here. But send them my way and I’ll tell them exactly the loss of social and relational privilege they have in their futures.

@Neurospice I totally agree. I have tried to explain some of my daughters additional needs around emotion and regulation to my father in law, to be met with “isn’t that just women in general”. Even NT women often have to dull their emotions down for some men. They do carry a privilege and my FIL in general has this idea that women are somehow lessor and flighty. The way they talk about women drivers makes me want to simply leave the room.

Fantastic post Neurospice, I totally agree ✨

I just witnessed an ADHD friend do everything for Xmas because probably ASD husband 'can't cope' so she got to take all the burnout. As a co-parent with probably ADHD exh I seem to organise the majority of school stuff and child admin or it wouldn't get done.

Oh snap I coparent with I’m sure a narc. I do all the parenting and he takes her out every other weekend to do fun stuff and put me down. Apparently I deserve it for ruining his life, for leaving him when he apparently gave me everything. Only thing he gave me was pstd! As a women this means that apparently you “should” be able to cope with everything. Rubbish it’s just a massive assumption and stereotype. Mention as a mum that you struggle with some of the parts of mothering and you get put in the stocks and laughed at.

Just text DH as I'm really struggling with menopause. His reply "I don't know what to say" - he asks me to tell him how I'm feeling but has no empathy

@Neurospice 👏👏👏👏

Do you think society is becoming less empathetic or has it always been like this?

I adore you for this write up. Absolutely brilliant!

I’ve been playing with AI/ChatGPT recently and ask them to help me solve an issue with dh.
I got that answer:

Wry chuckle
Collaborative problem-solving with someone who struggles with perspective-taking? That's a profound challenge.
Neurodivergent Communication Barrier: Difficulty imagining experiences outside one's own perceptual framework
Key challenges:

• Rigid cognitive processing
• Limited theory of mind
• Low intrinsic motivation to address problems they don't personally experience
• Potential defensive response to perceived criticism

Potential approaches:

1. Use concrete, specific language
2. Frame issues in terms of objective impact
3. Avoid emotional arguments
4. Consider professional mediation/couples counseling specialized in neurodivergent relationships

Critical Insight: The problem isn't just communication - it's fundamentally different neurological processing of shared experiences.

I thought it was a quite good summary of the situation.
Doesnt really help me deal with the situation but it felt good to be somehow validated in my approach. In particular regarding the fact it’s a really challenging situation where there are no easy answers. It’s not me not trying hard enough. It’s not him being hard work. It’s just hard.

Bottom line….don’t bother! 😂

Can someone give me a solid definition if you can of the difference between an ND person and a narc? The only thing I can think of is that if you ignore a narc they get angry and provoke and if you ignore someone ND they don’t care. I have a family member that I don’t really understand at all. I don’t know whether to allow benefit of the doubt or stay well away. Not that I enjoy the company much but need to make some kind of effort really. I have issues with them because they get quite defensive when I express a different opinion, won’t entertain me at all and views their opinion as superior.

@Rainbow03 if they are adding nothing to your life it doesn't matter what they are, you don't have to be around them, life is too short.

No I don’t but they are important to my partner and as of yet in the 5 years of being with him we’ve created zero relationship. Through all of life’s up and downs they’ve offered no support, not a kind word, really awkward words, invalidating words. I struggle being invalidated due to past abuse. I can’t work out if this person is deliberately invalidating me or is ND and has no theory of mind etc. All it achieves is that I sit in silence in their presence because there isn’t much point in conversing and sharing options because they only have theirs. They keep telling us the right and wrong ways to live and I’m not sure why they think there is only one way to live a life.

Not sure there is a solid definition. I certainly can’t give you one.

My friends and family have wondered whether DP is a narc. It can be hard to spot the differences but I’ve spent a long time pondering this very question!

I guess the difference for me would be that DP really does care about me. Not just because of what service I provide, but because he genuinely wants me to be happy. (He doesn’t always go about it in the right way!) But he doesn’t feel threatened by my happiness. He encourages me to do things that make me happy (go to the gym, see my friends….), a narc wouldn’t do that. They would feel jealous and threatened by their DP’s happiness unless it came directly from something they had done. So they would want them to be happy, but only if it made them feel as though they were the cause of the happiness. They had brought it about and were therefore controlling the situation. DP wants me to do things independently of him that he knows are good for me. And not because I’m a nicer person when I’m happy (though I’m sure I am), but because he loves me and wants good things for me.

Also he isn’t a natural empath. Obviously! If I talk about an issue and he will immediately butt in and talk about himself. It used to make me think he must just enjoy hogging the conversation and would much rather talk about himself than listen to anyone else talking about themselves. But I wonder whether this is his way of showing empathy. By trying to compare the situation he’s being told about to something familiar and known to him. Perhaps finding common ground is just his way of making a human connection. I don’t think a narc has any interest in empathy. I don’t think they want a human connection unless for selfish means (to boost their ego). I don’t think they care about other people or even see them as important.

But there are a LOT of similarities and it can be hard to separate them. Grandiosity, boasting, criticism of others, perceived criticism all the time, holding incredible grudges, quick to anger, being self absorbed, lacking or appearing to lack empathy (this is just DP, not all autistic people)….its easy to see people cannot separate the two.

I dunno if that helps you at all. Probably not. You’re talking about a family member so its probably a different dynamic.

@BustyLaRoux the grandiosity confuses me and I can see that in this person. I get confused because I am ND and I in no way feel superior to anyone. Also the boasting and the criticism of others who look like they aren’t holding it together. Why do they feel superior? Is it because they have such full control that they never flap or fail, they don’t get bogged down with emotions?