Married to someone with Asperger's/ASD/ND: support thread 14

[Daftasabroom]

New thread.
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This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. Some of us are ND ourselves, very many of us have ND children. It is a support thread, and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.
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It's complicated and it's emotional.
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The old thread is here.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5183563-married-to-someone-with-aspergersasdnd-support-thread-13?page=1

He’s in one his refusing to speak to me, make eye contact, one word responses to anything I say whilst frowning modes. All because I said I was fed up with his teenage DS hogging the bathroom. How he’s been in the shower for 20 mins this morning and I need to use the bathroom. But how he also had a very long shower last night (errr why does he need another king shower when he had one before bed???!). He always in there and it’s a shared bathroom. He takes ages. Other people are waiting to get in there. But DP cannot cope with his DC being criticised in any way. It’s like a criticism of him. He throws his toys out the pram (this morning his response was “fine! I’ll tell DS he is no longer allowed to use the bathroom then!!!!” How ridiculous! No!!!! Why not teach him to be more considerate of others? You are his parent. This is your job! Unhelpful childish comments like that just show how he cannot bear to have any form of justified criticism levelled at him or his DC).

And now he won’t speak to me.

Amazing how he tells me over and over that he is often the only adult in the room (one of his favourite catchphrases!). No,DP, you are not. You have emotional maturity of a woe-is-me teenager who acts like they’re the centre of the universe. My 11 year old is more adult than you!

This would have really upset me once. Now I just think of it as yet more material for my book!!! 😂

Me too. Lots of people have lots of issues, myself included. It’s hard being an adult! I guess you just have to find someone who makes you feel better. My current partner drives me nuts, especially with his hoarding and yeah he gets frustrated very quickly but he is also an amazing and funny person. We have to find the level of perfection that we can cope with lol.

Does anyone have an issue with trying to co-parent with an autistic ex?

my XH is a nightmare to co parent with and is actively counter parenting.

He hasn’t been diagnosed, but our DS is AuDHD and he is basically a similar type.

i think there is also a personality disorder with my ex. He is very narcissistic- which complicates things. He is very oppositional too so will do things simply because I’ve suggested the opposite

does anyone know how to deal with this?

You can't deal with an oppositional man ime.
The only solution is to end the 'relationship'.

So sorry. I see he is an ex. It's very difficult. I don't have any answers I'm afraid, but lots of sympathy. Don't hide your view of him from the children. Protect them.

DP still hasn’t spoken to me. I have had a single word response to a question I asked this morning and that single word is the sum total of his words to me since I dared to complain his DS was again taking too long in the bathroom. I don’t care. I’m heading to the gym, then meeting my friend for a drink. Up yours DP!!!! Anyone else get this level of emotional immaturity??

Yeah my DP is Autistic and has to coparent with his ex. It’s a shit show. They both assert how reasonable they are, but neither of them are at all. Although possibly she is trying to be more reasonable these days I think. He seems to do things just to get back at her. They have both used the children as weapons. She is very money oriented and gets £££££ from him but often refuses to spend it on the DC so I know that irks him. She also cancels medical appointments he’s made for them and remakes them during her contact time, saying he hasn’t cleared the appointment with her so she has cancelled it. (But they have joint PR so he doesn’t need her permission!) Then the DC have to wait two weeks to get the new appointment and suffer in the meantime. I do think she is unhinged sometimes. I also think he is vindictive and oppositional. They bring out the worst in each other. He refuses to respond to her messages. He will often arbitrarily decide to keep the DC longer than he should with some made up rationale about her having done this to him before. Which he believes. Because he has a very warped relationship with the truth. They're as bad as each other really and I refuse to get involved.

Yes.

Yes.

He's a very unpleasant man actually and yes, when we were married he counter-parented and while on the surface now he's more reasonable, on the quiet he carries right on.

I don't know any solutions except to never loose your cool and to try to talk to your children to kind of forewarn them. Ask them how they feel about things, and what good behaviour is, not only about your ex but generally (so it's not too obvious).

And one thing that has become blazingly clear was a major mistake on my part - never cover up or excuse the co-parent's difficult behaviour. It can back fire like burning napalm. My older son's gone to live with his father because there are less rules and my son excuses his father's behaviour with the same words that I used to use to him.

I have a second child who struggles badly with his father's behaviour and no way am I trying to excuse it or soften it again.

Sorry, more of a rant than any constructive advice. But if I was trying to find some, then stay consistent, stay interested, stay calm and keep to your own house rules. And don't bend over backwards to facilitate the relationship with an unpleasant ex-husband.

Just saw your response to my question and have read your update above it on your own situation.

Your DP sounds so similar to my ex I thought you were his gf! I am, however, much less reactive than his ex! 😄 I’m a saint in comparison!

but I had similar issues when we were together- no criticism is tolerated. Even now - he makes ridiculous sweeping statements about ‘right and wrong’. He splits up with partners for ridiculous things, but he perceives them as being morally defective for having relatively minor differences of opinion. For example- split up with one gf because she wanted them to go away on holiday for a week just the two of them. ( it was early stages). Apparently the poor woman was a harridan for suggesting he go anywhere without 6yo DS! I thought she sounded sensible- they needed to get to know each other before introducing kids.

Thanks for your perspective. And very wise not to get involved. But is it a control thing? Do you think there’s something more than autism going on?

Thanks. It’s so difficult not to criticise him in front of kids, but I can’t see any other option. I can’t pretend his behaviour is acceptable especially since DS is autistic. I don’t want him thinking that it’s ok

@DucklingSwimmingInstructress thanks for advice. I try not to be too critical but I never hide the fact that his behaviour is wrong.

Well we often have this debate on here about whether behaviour is down to autism or narcissism or just being a shitty person!!! And whether it matters in the long run. I mean the behaviour is the same in many respects so does it matter if it’s part of a disability or not…. I dunno. I swing both ways. I’m tired of the zeitgeist that says we must support the autism community at all costs! So if I’m a relationship with someone who has a total lack of empathy, need for control, stunted emotional responses (either anger or sulking and that seems to be all mine can manage), self interest and lack of interest in others….. being just a part of this wonderful disability and bla bla bla…. If only we could understand our partners better and change our responses then it’s down to us as the NT ones (I’m not even NT. I have a diagnosis of ADHD but somehow autism is seen to trump that I feel!!) to do better as they can’t help it. Yeah. Well bollocks to that really. As someone else has said many times if it looks like a duck etc….

However many of us are stuck. And we have to find a way to make peace with our situations. And for me that means accepting he is what he is and knowing he can’t help it. He likes/ needs to control. I used to think it was PDA but some other posters have set me straight. And I don’t want to bandy the term around irresponsibly. He has a very strong need for autonomy. And if he feels someone is trying to control him he will immediately do the opposite. But rather than being PDA he kind of takes a pride in it. This is one of the many reasons I find him to be emotionally on a par with a teenager. “You can’t tell ME what to do!!!! So there!” Type of thing.

So the more his ex tries to lay down the law, the worse he responds. And she does do this. And he says she has always tried to control him. (I mean he would say that! He thinks everyone is trying to control him and oppress him!!! 🤣). But she does write snotty messages basically telling him very sanctimoniously what is going to happen. It’s the worst way to handle him! You have to let him think he is making a choice and flatter him about how child focused and reasonable he is. It’s the only way. She can’t get her stubborn head round that. She hates him. With good reason to be fair.

So I don’t know. Yes there is more going on. But there is a very difficult history of allegations (unfounded), police, lies, oneupmanship etc at play. And that is obviously exacerbated by autism. She doesn’t understand neurodiversity at all. She thinks it can be medicated. She doesn’t understand the work that is required to truly get inside the head of the other person in order to get the best from a situation, so she just makes it worse. And he is abusive. And has encouraged the children to disagree with her and stop respecting her. Again, he has a need for autonomy and he has taught them this is what they should expect in life. (My kids are told to shut up and get on with it and stop making things about them, respect adults even if you don’t agree with them, be polite, be grateful, don’t be a dick! I mean they have their moments but they baulk at the way my DP’s kids treat their mum!)

It is all very damaging. I adopt a peace and love approach and I will help my DP f he wants to ask how to approach something peacefully. And I extend the same offer to his ex. But that is all. I won’t get caught up in their drama!

DH mainly takes an interest in our DC only if they are doing something he finds interesting.
DS has sport in common , but he'll ignore him talking about school or maths competitions etc.

DS has been really unwell this week and I'm wondering about getting an out of hours Dr's apt tomorrow. I had already booked to have my hair done late morning (first time in about 6 months) so unsure whether to cancel. I briefly suggested DH could try to get him an appointment. I might as well have suggested a trip to the moon. DH said "well see how he is in the morning" aka I don't know how to book an apt or where to go to an OOH GP , and will make hard work of looking it up, and its not in my plans for tomorrow, so you'll need to decide/take him. I honestly feel like a single parent a lot of the time, I can barely remember any parenting decision that DH had an opinion on.

@BustyLaRoux thanks for your update. I’m ND myself ( ADHD) but I agree that it’s annoying we are all supposed to make adjustments for autism - there’s no consideration of the demands they make on the people around them.

the dynamic between your DP and his ex wife sounds very similar to me and my ex, so I feel sympathy towards her. I agree it sounds like she makes it worse, but I also understand that hatred towards someone like that. I try to adopt the diplomatic approach and it does yield results, but it’s exhausting. It also makes me resent him more that I have to spend so much time making even simple plans. It is so draining and it takes Herculean effort not to tell him to sod off.

Im fortunate that I have very little to do with him. He doesn’t pay me anything as I was the main breadwinner and I paid him off. But he clings onto the childcare arrangements as a way of control. He also manipulates DC as he is very possessive and jealous of our relationship.

I will also say that people who know me consider me a very calm, easy going person. I’m not hot headed at all, but he regularly makes me furious - it’s the constant disrespect, nastiness and counter parenting.

I think people like my ex bring out the worst in everyone.

@Namechangersanonymous i feel sorry for the ex too. I spoke to her partner to try and help make things less combative and I was explaining how he needs to be managed and that ex doesn’t seem to understand this. To which he quite rightly replied “she doesn’t want to understand him! She wants him to fuck off!” I don’t blame her.

The problem is that when they initially split up she made a lot of false allegations and got the police involved. It was really awful. Of course everything was found to be untrue. It was revenge. But it took nearly a year to disprove everything and go back and forth to court etc. It damaged the children so much and he can’t ever forgive her for what she put him and the children through. So he comes to the party with all that baggage as well as his autism and that’s not a great mix!

I wouldn’t want to parent with him let alone trying to coparent with him as an ex. To be fair I wouldn’t want to coparent with her either. They do indeed bring out the absolute worst in each other. You sound a lot more reasonable than his ex!

@Namechangersanonymous yes I can see why that is a toxic relationship.

i found my ex can’t forgive even the slightest thing, so false accusations to the police would’ve made him completely lose the plot.

my ex accuses me of false allegations because I reported him to the police for harassment after we’d split. This was all entirely true! He tells everyone I falsely accused him. The police arrested him but because he never physically assaulted me, they released him without charge ( the police I think did it as as a scare tactic- it worked) the only problem is he thinks the fact that dry let him go means it’s because I’m a liar and he is innocent!

Well I’ve just had a lovely Barney with DP. Apparently I’ve been nasty to him. I asked him to explain. He can’t/wont. He said I am abusive. I shout at him. I storm off. I think he’s referring to the boat incident?! Dear god! He’s told me he doesn’t want to be in relationship with me. I should go back to my ex. How I accuse him of abuse ( silent treatment all day) but abuse him all the time. How I mocked his son (he couldn’t give me any detail when I asked what on earth he was talking about), but said I was an abuser of a child with special needs (OMFG!!!!). I asked for examples of all this. He said his word should be enough and he shouldn’t have to give evidence! I said but I don’t understand what you’re talking about. How keep saying things that I don’t understand and you won’t explain. Apparently he shouldn’t have to. I should trust him. If he says I have been nasty I should accept it. If he says I abused his son I should accept it as true.

And now he’s stormed out. I am shaking with emotion but am not sure what emotion. I feel very scared of this man sometimes.

Donald??? Donald… please come back!!!!

@BustyLaRoux forgive me for not knowing the back story, but can’t you leave?

this man is being abusive to you. It’s no way to live

Oh yes I know he is! He’s one of the most abusive men on here. I know full well what he is. Somehow that makes it easier.

Can I leave? Sigh. Yes I could. But I am very worried about money. I don’t earn enough to support me and two children. I live in a very expensive city. The children have 5-6 years of school left. I can’t move away just yet to somewhere cheaper. And I also don’t want to uproot them. I put them through enough when I left their dad. I just can’t face doing it to them again. They know what DP is about. They’re shrewd. They have his number. They like him well enough but they also know he is batshit mental. He’s OK to them. It’s more they see how he parents his kids and how he deals with his ex. Me and DP don’t fall out often (maybe once every six months) and they’re shielded from that as it doesn’t happen when they’re here. They know what I think of him.

I don’t mind being alone. I do mind being poor. I grew up with not much money and being threatened with homelessness (although I realise now this was a facade my autistic father created and wasn’t actually true!) But it was real to me and has really affected how I prioritise what’s important. Again, I recognise all of this. And I know it’s probably wrong of me to be this way.

DP has just texted me to say we should meet up later!!!!

I said hut I thought you said you wanted to end the relationship and I should go back to my ex..??? I wasn’t sure what else to say really.

I have spent the morning looking at rental
properties I cannot afford and dreaming of a different life!

I am strong though. I will endure anything to keep my children settled. They love our house. I am doing it for them. My mum walked out on us when I was a teenager and she couldn’t forgive herself. So I also have that as a backdrop. I won’t do it to them. They keep me going.

The thing is, it’s not because someone is autistic that they have those combative approach/abusive/want to win attitude. (Just like it’s not because one is NT that they’re going to behave like that or the opposite way around, be empathetic/kind/caring etc….)

I mean I’ve tore my hair out before. I’ve felt deeply hurt too. Esp around the dcs and the lack of care/empathy/support.

But DH also has a strong sense of duty and has always tried his best.
He cares, in his own way, for me and the dcs.
Hes always somehow been supportive of my own endeavours. There’s stuff that took a long time for him to ‘get’ but he never stopped me. Nor has he ever tried to make me fail.

So when I read posts like the last ones, it feels like a different world to me. It doesn’t feel ‘autistic’. But rather like really bad d’ajustements to autism. Just like NT, who’ve struggled for whatever reason, have developed very unhelpful ways of coping such as being controlling/bullying.

I think there is a question to ask on what is acceptable or not. Everyone will have a different answer and I’m not judging that. That would be very hypocritical of me seeing I’m still married despite years and years of struggles and resentment. But a lot of the stuff described would cross a line to me.

Also most of the time we don’t have a cross word. It’s so different to my marriage to the kids’ dad. We fought multiple times a day! So I am thankful not to have to go through that anymore. We actually tick along well most or nearly all of the time. And I do love him in my own way. But it is like dealing with someone who is insane.

@BustyLaRoux thats sounds hard 🫂🫂🫂

I also think we all carry past trauma that shape the way we react.
It’s true for everyone.
It’s neither right or wrong. It just is. And being able to reframe, heal and ‘move on’ (for want of a better word) is hard. Very hard (and yep, been there, done that and still have the Tshirt. Not sure you ever totally ‘heal’ from it but rather you learn to live with it in a more helpful way to you)

You’re so right @special. It’s well and good seeing everything for what it is (I know what’s shaped me. I know who I am). And another to heal and move past it. I’m not quite at that stage yet.

busty you are really stuck, it seems, trapped by your own upbringing, trauma history, and the finances. I, personally, think you are in an extremely dangerous and fragile position and that the abuse is more constant and ongoing than you admit (even to yourself).

If you can’t/won’t leave why did you continue to passively resist his attacks by demanding proof? If you are determined to stay just accept his criticism and verbal attacks with a mild agreement, which is a form of gray rocking or an appropriate trauma response of fawning on the threat? Just say “I never looked at it that way. I will try to do better.”

I think you should get out. I think this man is actively abusing you and this is harmful to you and the children as you are teaching them to accept abuse in exchange for security and money. Like you they will end up continually trading for these things because the alternative—independence with temporary scarcity—seems unthinkable.

But if you are going to stay you must manage the conflicts without resorting to normal logic or pushback. Because his thought processes are idiosyncratic but perfectly clear. No point being astounded at his being “mad” or “mental.” For whatever reason he is a narcissist with a hair trigger for shame. That’s it. That’s all. Your criticism of his son’s hogging the shower was, to him, abuse. You know already that he considers other people’s needs to be abuse oof himself.