Loan outstanding to our son is causing weekly abuse

[Tiredtrudy]

I'm not sure if I'm being the unreasonable one here. We moved two years ago. Our adult son (now 25) was living in London. Our mortgage offer came up £20k short and he covered the shortfall with a loan (we had maxed out on the house due to our ages). Payments to be paid by us, and his terms were he wanted to move in to save for a house deposit. That was eighteen months ago. During that time I became seriously ill and will not recover. I'm the high earner. I'm waiting to be medically retired. These things are never quick as insurance doesn't want to pay.
He has paid nearly all the monthly payments as I've been unwaged but never given us any keep. He might buy the odd takeaway. Anything he pays for is recorded on a spreadsheet which I didn't know existed until recently.
The monthly payment is £400 the same as many friends charge their adult DC. He eats a lot. He earns more than his father who is in his 60s and still working to keep a roof over our heads. We also have a younger DC at home who is at a local University.
Things have come to head as he wants to buy this spring. I haven't been able to confirm if I can give him this money back then. He is now forcing us to sell our home (which we do need to due for mobility reasons). We have equity in the house to repay him and move to a smaller property.
I'm now expected to give full weekly updates on our finances and any accessible work options I might be applying for. If I don't give him this information he flys into a rage screaming at me and telling me I've ruined his life.
The payments he has made are less than 10% of his take home pay.
He had mostly a private education and I paid off his sports car finance two years ago. He's never offered to take that off 'the bill'.
My DH has told him I'm ill and when the house is sold he can have his money. It doesn't seem to be enough. My husband things he's a privileged brat.
To punish us he refused to attend a family party at the weekend. Yesterday he shouted at me for an hour. I was crying. It turns out he had promised his GF a house last year. She was going to leave him as this hasn't happened.
Due to my health I am barely able to walk. I can't just go and work in a shop or warehouse. He does stay with his GF a couple of days a week and we all breathe a sigh of relief. I'm not frightened of him but he is so nasty to me. I don't know what to do.

I’m pretty sure the OP stated that her son persuaded her to buy this house and she was otherwise happy with the more affordable house.

This is ridiculous though, an offer isn’t binding. How can any sensible adult be absolved from blame & persuaded to buy something they can’t afford?

If the son didn’t want to take out a loan, he shouldn’t have offered/decided to do this.

If he knew it wouldn’t necessarily be paid back I doubt he would have offered?

The loan IS his. By law, it is actually his problem to sort. He should have considered all the implications of taking out a loan - and potential issues. Should his parents not have done the same? It’s probably why he’s pissed as he knows it’s his problem to sort.

It sounds to me like he is on the make, and sod his Mum’s health.

Well he’s not made much has he…

I think it’s likely DH has limitations of some kind, and OP doesn’t wish to put them on display. Why should she?

When I was the spouse in a serious cancer situation, it evoked fierce feelings of protectiveness similar only to the way one feels about a deeply loved baby or young child. If anyone had tried to verbally abuse DH while he was frail, I would have felt like hitting them. I certainly wouldn’t have permitted them to stay under our roof regardless of the relationship, prior arrangements, etc.

Given that this behaviour is out of character I continue to suspect an ultimatum from the GF is driving it. Unless there is a DGC of the OP lurking in the background I hope the DS will think more.

Your maths are correct. I do not expect him to write off the balance but he denies he owes rent.
He can have the full £20k plus any interest. I've lost the will to live anyway.

My maths maybe wrong!!

I just calculated it from 2 years ago when the loan was taken out.

And how much should have been paid by both of them in that time.

That’s without interest.

It seems that regardless of my bad maths, that OP still owes DS more money than he owes her.
So I’m not sure what OPs issue is.

Apart from if she thinks DS should completely write off the loan, which she needs to be honest and say that.

I’m perfectly calm thanks. Just wondering why you would think he’s paying back a loan to himself.

It seems that regardless of my bad maths, that OP still owes DS more money than he owes her.

Thats my understanding & the reason DS is annoyed but apparently he should write off the 20k & be happy about it 🤷🏻‍♀️

Thank you.

I’m confused as to how he owes you rent?

You said he wasn’t expected to pay rent on top of the £400, so why does he owe you rent?

Do you mean the 8 months that you were paying the loan?

Because surely the rent he owes you has been paid off by now anyway?

No I think you're fine. Just dont understand how a 20k loan before interest paid off over 48 months comes out as 19,200.

But it feels like we have pivoted back to what the lad owes in rent....

I’m confused as to how he owes you rent?

If someone owes me £20 but I then borrow £100 off them, I’m in debt to them not the other way surely and I can’t complain about them not giving me the £20 whilst still owing them?

With all respect, I know op has flagged chemo but theyve not flagged cancer... unless I've missed that?

I meant in substance it sounds like it is also dh’s house.

What an utter mess. Some seriously abysmal decisions made by all.
OP I hope you have had some proper advice re protecting your DCs inheritances considering the fraud and whatever the reason is that your DH can't/won't be on the mortgage....

What do you want @Tiredtrudy you seem passive on this but not in any other aspect. Did you just want validation that he is abusive without seeing your part in this

This is exactly what’s making my brain hurt 😂

OP has said a few times that he owes her rent/ hasn’t paid it but she owes him way more.
So I’m struggling to see the logic.

He’s also been paying £100 extra for 14 months and so would have paid off what he owes pretty soon, if he’s not already.

Yet OP still owes him over £15k but is arguing about a couple hundred owed in rent, if that.

I can see why he likes everything written down.

I do not expect to not pay outstanding monies to my son. I have said this repeatly.

@Strikeoutnow please stop with your statements about points I have not made.
I have tried to be fair to my son on this thread.
Yes there is more to our family business and I have spoken to him today.
Would the people calling me a liar like scrrenshots?

And I'm not a shit parent, I'm in a shit situation. I didn't change the goalposts on timings, he did.

Yeah letting your parents pay off your sports car debt does make you feel like a mug. Spot on. And the cheek of them to not charge rent/bills, shocking.

The loan duration was initially 4 yrs. HE knew that, OP knew that.

18 months in he's almost paid off the loan in full bar OPs payments totalling £3200 but has now said he needs the £20k lump sum paid back to him so he can buy a house with his GF Spring '25. That is changing the goalposts including NOT PAYING the agreed keep of £300 for the initial 8 months when OP was managing the loan herself. No doubt he'll get his money back from OP but possibly not in time for the intended purchase in the spring of '25. Sad to say I think he is being pressured by his GF. If his own sister perceives the GF as a gold digger she might be right. It doesn't add up that a normally loving son would act this way towards his very ill mother.

He's a 25 yr old living off his parents who are going through hell and now have little income, whilst he earns ieo of £4000 a month and because he wants to buy a house per his GF's timelines, and maybe can't, he's acting like a shit towards them. THEY ARE SAVING HIM UPWARDS OF £1000 A MONTH IN LONDON RENT!!!

Factor in the £300 keep when you reconcile the final sum due OP. He's been used to your generosity in the past and now feels wholly entitled to it.

That’s true. I wasn’t strictly inferring that OP has cancer. I think any grave illness would evoke these feelings.

But she is doing another round of chemo next month because the last one didn’t work. I thought this sounded likely to be a cancer context. And she has not corrected PPs who have mentioned cancer upthread.

Gently OP, I wonder if you may be a bit confused.
It wouldn’t be surprising considering how much you have going on right now.

It’s probably why DS wants everything written down so there is no confusion or miscommunication.

Either that or you have an issue with DS moving in with the gf and are using this as an excuse.

If you still think you are in the right, then perhaps ask DH to start a thread with the facts and we might be able to see your side easier.

DS’s attitude to you is disgusting and disrespectful but I cannot see why you think he owes you money and I can see how you saying that to him is going to cause arguments.

Dont be dramatic @Tiredtrudy there are no need for screenshots.

I suggest you get this thread closed. You've reached that "anger" point we see in ops who arent getting the reaction they hoped for. A flounce in the style of your sons GF may be the best option for you.

Clearly there are more than two sides to your mess of a story. And that's that.

I've only read the first page so apologies if this has been covered but can you arrange mediation with a financial advisor perhaps who can come up with a plan for the best way forward that is independent of what both sides want?

Here re we go again for the final time. He agreed to pay £300 a month rent. He's paid nothing. £5400.

He has paid £4800 on my behalf to cover the loan.
What he's asking is that we pay all of the loan now as he needs it. Not the agreed payment plan.

Kindly, you very much did change the goalposts when you stopped making the repayments you agreed to. Your DS may have chosen to take on the debt, but you also chose to make a commitment you could not afford to keep. You need to own that.

He has never, and from what the OP says, will never pay rent.

So the loan has NOT offset his rent - because in his selfish mind, there is no rent to pay.

To him, it is only OP that OWES HIM money. Totally bizarre situation.