Loan outstanding to our son is causing weekly abuse

[Tiredtrudy]

I'm not sure if I'm being the unreasonable one here. We moved two years ago. Our adult son (now 25) was living in London. Our mortgage offer came up £20k short and he covered the shortfall with a loan (we had maxed out on the house due to our ages). Payments to be paid by us, and his terms were he wanted to move in to save for a house deposit. That was eighteen months ago. During that time I became seriously ill and will not recover. I'm the high earner. I'm waiting to be medically retired. These things are never quick as insurance doesn't want to pay.
He has paid nearly all the monthly payments as I've been unwaged but never given us any keep. He might buy the odd takeaway. Anything he pays for is recorded on a spreadsheet which I didn't know existed until recently.
The monthly payment is £400 the same as many friends charge their adult DC. He eats a lot. He earns more than his father who is in his 60s and still working to keep a roof over our heads. We also have a younger DC at home who is at a local University.
Things have come to head as he wants to buy this spring. I haven't been able to confirm if I can give him this money back then. He is now forcing us to sell our home (which we do need to due for mobility reasons). We have equity in the house to repay him and move to a smaller property.
I'm now expected to give full weekly updates on our finances and any accessible work options I might be applying for. If I don't give him this information he flys into a rage screaming at me and telling me I've ruined his life.
The payments he has made are less than 10% of his take home pay.
He had mostly a private education and I paid off his sports car finance two years ago. He's never offered to take that off 'the bill'.
My DH has told him I'm ill and when the house is sold he can have his money. It doesn't seem to be enough. My husband things he's a privileged brat.
To punish us he refused to attend a family party at the weekend. Yesterday he shouted at me for an hour. I was crying. It turns out he had promised his GF a house last year. She was going to leave him as this hasn't happened.
Due to my health I am barely able to walk. I can't just go and work in a shop or warehouse. He does stay with his GF a couple of days a week and we all breathe a sigh of relief. I'm not frightened of him but he is so nasty to me. I don't know what to do.

Unfortunately, anything regarding deposit on his flat, paying his sport car etc are mute points as these were gifts. You cannot asked for this to be considered to taken off the current debt. If he agreed to pay upkeep but hasn’t then you should have told him to leave then. There is no point in holding to that point now. He wants to buy a house and can’t because of this loan so understandably he is angry about that. Would I treat my mother like this if she was sick- absolutely not. You gave him everything he wanted materially and unfortunately this is the consequence. He has become nasty but you should have not listened to him and bought a house beyond your means. Poor financial decision making. Just sell the house. Your other child just has to bear it. I was made homeless whilst at uni so moving to smaller house won’t be the end of the world.

@Gabitule im sorry for your loss.

My son is usually a kind decent chap and this behaviour with me is not something I expected of him.

Annoyed that her boyfriend took on debt for his parents and now they can't buy their own home. Obviously. The debt, and poor financial planning predates the cancer.

I’m going against the grain here. His parents have given him a good start in life which has enabled him to earn well at a relatively young age. They didn’t ask for anything in ‘return’, they asked for his help, to which he agreed. It seems that no-one gave a thought to what would happen if either OP or her DH fell out of work or became ill enough to not be able to work. That’s on all of them, including DS. These are his parents. His mother is now disabled and all he can do is bully, shout and insist that the house is sold. If he’s living there rent free and OP and her DH are providing everything else for him, that’s probably costing in excess of what he’s paying for the loan - I don’t know anyone whose living costs only tot up to 10% of their income these days.

If the loan payment is 10% of his income then he’s on £4000 a month - he can afford to pay rent while he’s saving. Given that his parents have covered the loan until OP became unwell he should be attributing that £400 a month loan payment to the rent he would otherwise be paying, given that they pay for everything else. I think I’d be getting some legal advice, and yes, as a previous poster suggested, start keeping a spreadsheet of expenses he’s incurred since he moved in. Including the payment of the balance on the car.

Shit happens. He should have known the risks. These are his parents, and he’s treating them like tenants in their own home. Insisting that his sick mother sell up a home that’s adapted for her use is shameful - even more so since she is undergoing chemo, and he’s forcing a house sale while she tries to deal with that as well as coming to terms with terminal illness. He’s morally bankrupt.

@IWillAlwaysBeinaClubWithYouin1973

Exactly.

The OP is seriously ill with cancer.

She hasn’t outright said this, I think through potentially trying to forgive or protect her son.

He is behaving awfully, and I think the OP needs help to protect herself from his abuse.

Additionally, if he thinks it’s ok to behave like this - he is not going to learn how to be a decent family man.

He needs to know that empathy and family comes before money.

I understood the phrase "rent" to be a sort of board and lodging arrangement, and he hasn't paid it anyway. So he has lived free, enabling him to spend the £300 originally agreed on the loan repayments of £400. So maybe OP should just pay him £100 a month ... all square then eh?

So to clarify - he is 25, employed full time and earning over £4k a month / £48k per year.

He does not contribute to any household expenses, his food nor pay rent.
He keeps a detailed log of anything he does occasionally buy for the family.
His only financial contributions are £400 per month in these loan repayments; which he expects to be paid back once the house is sold?

Prior to this all of his deposits, furnishings and car payments were gifted to him.

As a parent, there is no way I’d be persuaded to accept my child taking a loan out in their name for a house that’s in my name, that I can’t really afford. That’s the crux, really. Him offering was actually really considerate and kind (and I’d be over the moon if my children were that thoughtful) but I’d also turn down the offer because it’s a bad idea all round (as evidenced by this post).

And equally, OP has borrowed the money from her son and cannot pay it back now - she should have addressed possible difficulties when she accepted the offer.

As for the GF, well yes, I’m not surprised she’s getting to the point of wanting to leave. If she’s saved her side to move and has been waiting for her BF for 18 months so far, with absolutely no idea when he’ll be ready to buy I could imagine that’s very miserable and frustrating. Not to mention how much she must be throwing away in rent when she just wants to get on and move into together, start a life together, etc.

Just getting a tiny violin out for the miserable frustrated girlfriend ...

Then try and get a clam time and talk to him - maybe he's under pressure with other debts or GF or work - or just upset and lashing out because he worried about you - talk to him or get someone else to and see what behind this change in behavior.

The lashing out needs to stop immediately what ever happens though and that should be made clear.

Frustration and fear is one thing screaming and shouting as an adult at anyone is not on - it just worse it's an ill person in their own home.

Exploit? There's an awful lot of hysteria on this thread. I can't get my head round the fact that people are fainting because an adult has to pay 400 on a loan instead of paying for rent/food/bills.

How much are you paying back to your son each month? As he owes you £300 for keep and you owe £400 for loan, you should be giving him £100. You don't seem to be paying anything though, which is often the case with family loans.
You should be setting aside an amount on pay day and scrimping through the month if necessary.
No one comes out of this well. OP hasn't said why a new house was needed in later life but son had an interest. Did he come up with the 20 grand as it will be his to inherit?
There could be some financial solutions as it was obviously a long term arrangement with the son, but as OP either presents everything in her favour or doesn't answer questions, there's no point

@IWillAlwaysBeinaClubWithYouin1973 in the OP she says 'Payments to be paid by us, and his terms were he wanted to move in to save for a house deposit.'

To me that says that there was an agreement that he would not pay anything to live at home while he was saving.

She then says later it is £300? Both can't be true is what I'm saying.

The relationship is going to be broken beyond repair if something doesn't change. Whilst the house may have been perceived as a good buy back then, it's become a weight around your neck that you don't need, especially when youre seriously ill. It seems like the best solution all round here is to sell the house, pay him off, and maybe taking a cooling off period from each other.

There could be some financial solutions as it was obviously a long term arrangement with the son, but as OP either presents everything in her favour or doesn't answer questions, there's no point

That why I wondered if she was one of those airy fairy people with money TBH.

This is what I would do if I have understood the situation correctly. You owe your son £20,000 which he loaned you. He wants you to sell the house to get that money back. Well, don’t he’s a lodger in your house so give him notice to quit. He is not contributing either to the atmosphere or financially to your life. Then create your own spreadsheet of expenses you’ve incurred because of him . And subtract that from the money you owe him then tell him to take you to the small claims court for the rest. He needs a hard lesson and I’m sorry it’s a hard time for you but you’re not helping him by enabling this abuse to continue.

You don’t have to feel sorry for the GF at all but she seems to have taken the brunt of this mess from some posters when she’s nothing to do with it (and the couple of little jibes from OP too…)

He sounds selfish.
He's paying the £400 loan repayment in lieu of rent and board, though he expects that to be paid back to him.
So in effect, he wants to live at home as an adult earning £48k+ for free for the graciousness of lending his parents some money that they will pay back.

I fully agree. It's as if posters are deliberately ignoring that OP is ill, as if it's irrelevant. When my mother had cancer, we all (siblings) got together and discussed how we were going to make things easier for her, who was going to help out where. I'm absolutely shocked at the callousness of the majority of posters here. Maybe they've never had to deal with serious illness before in their families.

Your post makes no sense. The DS has been paying the £300 plus £100 extra. It hasn’t been going directly to the OP anymore as it’s going towards the loan she now can’t pay.
There is literally zero justification for the OP to take the son to court. Your understanding of this is wild

He is trapped and can’t move on with his life. He wants to buy a house but is waiting for his money back. (You can’t bring up school fees!!! Who expects to charge their kids back for that?!?!)

him and his partner want to start their life together and this is a huge obstacle

If he were paying board it would have ended when he moved out. But now he's stuck with loan repayments that he will have to service wherever he lives. It's not the same.

So you're basically saying that after their son was good enough to take out a loan for them, they should now kick him out, tell him to go swing for his £20K, create a spreadsheet of expenses they could charge him for that he was never aware he would be liable for (private schooling, car payment, apartment deposit: all gifts/parental choices) and tell him go to court if he wants to see any of his money....

Ya, that's a great plan.

How about they just pay him the money they agreed to and try and salvage the relationship???

There could be some financial solutions as it was obviously a long term arrangement with the son, but as OP either presents everything in her favour or doesn't answer questions, there's no point

Agree.

And ignores sensible financial suggestions.

And flip-flops on her description of her son - her friend decides he is abusive but OP says hes a nice chap?

The OP is likely to lose the relationship with her DS once he moves on with floucy GF.

His frustration and anger are justified but his abusive behaviour is not acceptable. Explains his feelings but doesnt excuse his behaviour.

I am so sorry for your diagnosis

Stressors tend to bring out the worst emotions in all of us OP and cancer and money are two of the biggest

as is pride, he wanted to do this for you and I think you all went in entirely unprepared for it and what it actually means and you are left with this utter total shitshow and the effect it has on his future

a proper cards on the table conversation - it won’t be easy or pleasant but decisions need to be made and potentially uncomfortable ones as to how this will work with the future

so you have critical illness cover because another option is life insurance and you don’t want to put that on anyone

nejthrr so you want this stress hanging over treatment sell up - admit it was a mistake and move on you to a smaller property and let your son buy one

but don’t let this overshadow your relationship with your son or whatever time you have left