Loan outstanding to our son is causing weekly abuse

[Tiredtrudy]

I'm not sure if I'm being the unreasonable one here. We moved two years ago. Our adult son (now 25) was living in London. Our mortgage offer came up £20k short and he covered the shortfall with a loan (we had maxed out on the house due to our ages). Payments to be paid by us, and his terms were he wanted to move in to save for a house deposit. That was eighteen months ago. During that time I became seriously ill and will not recover. I'm the high earner. I'm waiting to be medically retired. These things are never quick as insurance doesn't want to pay.
He has paid nearly all the monthly payments as I've been unwaged but never given us any keep. He might buy the odd takeaway. Anything he pays for is recorded on a spreadsheet which I didn't know existed until recently.
The monthly payment is £400 the same as many friends charge their adult DC. He eats a lot. He earns more than his father who is in his 60s and still working to keep a roof over our heads. We also have a younger DC at home who is at a local University.
Things have come to head as he wants to buy this spring. I haven't been able to confirm if I can give him this money back then. He is now forcing us to sell our home (which we do need to due for mobility reasons). We have equity in the house to repay him and move to a smaller property.
I'm now expected to give full weekly updates on our finances and any accessible work options I might be applying for. If I don't give him this information he flys into a rage screaming at me and telling me I've ruined his life.
The payments he has made are less than 10% of his take home pay.
He had mostly a private education and I paid off his sports car finance two years ago. He's never offered to take that off 'the bill'.
My DH has told him I'm ill and when the house is sold he can have his money. It doesn't seem to be enough. My husband things he's a privileged brat.
To punish us he refused to attend a family party at the weekend. Yesterday he shouted at me for an hour. I was crying. It turns out he had promised his GF a house last year. She was going to leave him as this hasn't happened.
Due to my health I am barely able to walk. I can't just go and work in a shop or warehouse. He does stay with his GF a couple of days a week and we all breathe a sigh of relief. I'm not frightened of him but he is so nasty to me. I don't know what to do.

You're missing that this wasn't at all the agreement. They asked him to take a £20k loan for them and in return he would live in the house rent free and be able to save.

That agreement has now been completely thrown out the window.

I think it was a mistake to take a loan off your son and overcommit yourselves on a mortgage.

I really feel for you, OP, with your health struggles - but you’re not a single person. Your husband also took on this obligation and he needs to be stepping up. Why does he earn so much less than your son?

Obviously your son’s behaviour is unacceptable but I think you need to untangle the joint finances and you and your husband need to think about how to manage your future independently of your son. Again, I think your husband should be stepping up given your poor health.

Tell him to leave op with immediate effect. Does he have any paperwork to even say you owe him this money?

I don't think she's being unreasonable..
If I were 25 and had been planning to buy with my boyfriend I'd be extremely worried if his parents got him to take out a 20k loan for them.. it's not normal is it? That's a big burden to put on a 25 yo.. it effects the rest of his life. And it effects his girlfriend if she was ready to buy with him and suddenly he's no longer in a position to buy due to his parents. The loan will effect his ability to get a mortgage.
I don't think there's any circumstances at all where I'd ask my child to take out a loan for me. It's so dodgy.

Why are you asking that? Are you going to suggest they stiff him with the £20k loan??? 😳

@MistletoeAndWine123 parents severely underestimate the impact this sort of arrangements have on their children.

My DM can’t work due to illness and financially supporting her absolutely wrecked havoc on our adult lives because we were young and not established when it started. I’m pretty sure that’s why my DB’s partner broke up with him, she was fed up.

This isn’t to say it’s a parent’s fault for being ill but the son has my sympathy. No excuse to shout and abuse though.

If he was paying rent, bills and buying food like most adults have to, he'd have even less money to move out.

You seriously saying that pretending the loan wasn't for them will solve the situation? He could sue them and even if he didn't have enough evidence for that i doubt that after they threw him out they would ever see him again..
And the biggest factor you are forgetting here is that they can't really afford this house they are living in anyway..

I suspect the £20k loan is impacting how much he can borrow for a mortgage and would mean that he would have to look at downgrading the types of properties he can buy - so he needs it paid off.

Surely the DH can access the balance from his pension pot to clear it rather than moving house where the costs of EA, SD, legal fees etc etc will be significantly more.

I saw that. With that kind of salary and housing situation he would be able to save a lot each month, he could have easily serviced the loan and then some. He’s in a very privileged situation. My feeling is that he just didn’t save enough money for whatever reason for the house deposit. I earn a 1k more than the son, my mortgage is 1k and childcare costs 1.2k and I commute into London. I can still save at least 1k a month. Also not arguing with the fact that taking out a loan for your parents is less than ideal. I got talked into something similar at a young age and it left a bad taste in my mouth.

His behaviour is awful but at his age you’re putting his life on hold when he should be doing all sorts of exciting things. The girlfriend sounds less than wonderful but that’s his own problem. You need to find a way to get that £20k back and get him out of the house and in weeks not years. Release him to live his life. You chose to pay off his car, i don’t think you can legitimately change the terms now.

You have decided to put your house on the market and downsize for mobility reasons, and when you do that there will be equity for you to pay your son a lump sum.

This may turn out to be an erroneous assumption, and I wonder whether the son has realised this. Perhaps he's seen the kind of properties the OP is considering and has realised that a move won't necessarily release the £20k+ he needs. In my area a 2-bed detached bungalow costs more than a 4-bed semi-detached house.

I just checked out the cost of a £20k loan with Barclays, paid back over 5 years, and it's close to £400pm. Presumably the OP and her husband were going to pay that monthly fee: the son's role was simply to provide them with cash help for the deposit. In that case I imagine he would have paid £400pm for his keep.

Now that OP isn't working he's paying it back in order to ensure he doesn't fall into debt and kibosh any chance he has of getting a mortgage. He's paying interest and I imagine, given the OP's attitude to money and apparent lack of a safety net, he's assuming that it's unlikely he'll get the full cost ( £24-25k including interest) back. In his shoes I wouldn't be paying a £400pm bill for a loan I only took out to help my parents that has complicated my own financial future and £400pm in rent/ keep too.

OP, first of all, I’m sorry you’re so unwell and I hope you will recover. 🌺
Secondly, don’t take the nasty comments on here to heart, perhaps some people didn’t quite understand what you meant and also they missed the fact that you would have been able to work and pay the loan back if you didn’t get sick.

Your only ‘mistake’ in my view was initially agreeing that your son could live with you rent free (or for a low rent without a firm agreement), thus giving him a feeling of entitlement. But ok, you did that to help him and did not know your financial situation was going to deteriorate. But he does owe you £300 per month from the moment you both agreed that this is what he should pay you for rent. So multiply that by the number of months since you made the agreement and take the total off the £20k debt.
Then do another, more realistic, calculation going forward - how much rent would it be reasonable for him to pay you, plus bills, plus food. In my view this would be significantly more than £300 per month. If he doesn’t agree to paying this kick him out and get a lodger. The lodger would pay you more than £400 per month (esp if you include money saved on not buying son’s food) so this would enable you to pay the loan instalments and also give your son some money owed for previous loan instalments.

Your son is 25, he is an adult and he earns good money (presumably because he has a good job which he partly secured because he went to a good private school which you paid for). I have little sympathy for him. Yes, you agreed to pay the loan and then couldn’t, but that’s because of reasons beyond your control. He is in effect an unsecured creditor and if he was to take the ‘legal’ option and take you to court he’d get a court judgment asking you to pay only what you can afford based on your financial statement .

My brothers were awful to my mum until she died from cancer and I will never ever forgive them. This post triggered me.

so sorry OP

@CountZacular

It sounds to me like the son persuaded them to buy the house as it was a good buy, and offered the loan. He would have seen this as ultimately benefitting himself?
It sounds like he earns well. Mum’s illness has inconvenienced him massively.
Ultimately he agreed to a loan, so he should have addressed possible difficulties when he decided to do this.
The GF is leaving because he can’t buy a house. Really?? So if she loves him, she can’t wait or look for a more affordable house?

Annoyed that the OP has cancer?

This 100%. It was very irresponsible of you and DH, to agree to this arrangement. Even if it was his idea (or did you ask him to go into debt to finance you) as the more experienced adults you should of prioritised his financial wellbeing and future. You should of highlighted the risks for him. He is being abusive, but you have also put him in a terrible position. I imagine he is very anxious about this situation. Please don't suggest he should suck it up because you have previously spent money on him. That's irrelevant. You need to clear his debt as quickly as you can. Then ask him to leave, as it sounds like your relationship is ruined,and his behaviour is indeed emotionally abusive. That said, I feel incredibly sorry for him. I imagine his mental healrh us suffering, as well as his personal life and financial prospects.

Completely agree that the shouting and abusive behaviour is out of order.

The son also has my sympathies. My parents ran out of readily available cash during a renovation project when I was saving for a deposit. I offered them £10k to finish the job. If they hadn't paid me back, it would have set me back another 12-18 months purchasing a house. And that's besides the hurt, upset and complete loss of trust I would have had in my parents if they had reneged on their side of the agreement.

No but he needs to have a bit of compassion for his mum who is now to ill to work. He pays nothing for board. It won't hurt him to cover the loan a bit longer whilst they sort themselves out.
Op do you or your dh have any pension lump sums you could take early to cover this? Many people take sums out of private pensions early to pay off shortfalls on mortgages.

I've known a few people who've worked in finance over the years. Two of them have been through bankruptcy and three of them were lucky to avoid having their homes repossessed!

He has a loan in his name due to them. Thats a big financial burden. It will effect his ability to get a mortgage. So yes if he were just paying rent and board it would be easier for him to move out.
Plus what the op is implying is that she wants him to contribute more financially on top of the loan payments.. and that she thinks it's not OK he's keeping tally of what he's paid for them, indicating she doesn't think she should pay any of that back..
Would you exploit your child like this?
Have clear rules if your adult child is living with you.. charge them rent and board.. but don't agree to a set up which you then dishonor in a way that puts your child at financial risk, and act shocked that they are angry

I honestly think you should get someone to mediate within the family as you’ve now got the three adults embroiled in this financial hole with consequences you didn’t plan for, but you need to get sorted promptly. Can you take a mortgage holiday; have you critical illness cover?

They are waiting for the insurance to pay out - they don't want to.

A mortgage payment holiday could help - I wonder if the Op is dragging feet about selling house as it's upheaval when ill and they have another child at uni living at home - all of which is very understandable but probably very frustrating from OP in debt son view point.

It's hard to tell from the OP if the money there but not on DS timetable - which may well need explaining to him sensibly and calmly with perhaps a repayment timetable being agreed- or if the OP just financial incompetent vague with money and drowning in debt and a bit airy fairy with money generally which may be aggravating to an adult who been embroiled in the situation.

So he agreed to pay you £300 a month, and never paid a penny. He lives there rent and board free, to his benefit and is now making the repayments of £400 a month - why can't other posters see this? The headline news here is that you are seriously ill!

Technically, the loan is going to need to be repaid obviously, its just when as of course if he has it outstanding in his name then it will affect how much he can borrow, but it sounds as if none of you are on your uppers. Is your DH not his father?

In the OP she says the terms of the loan were he could live in the house rent free... then in a further post she said his rent is due to be £300 which he hasn't paid. Which is it? It can't be both...

@IWillAlwaysBeinaClubWithYouin1973

i don’t get that either. When does anyone ever get the chance to live so cheaply in London, setting them up for their future by being able to save a deposit.

Just also to say I think the son's behaviour is shocking, his mum didn't plan to have cancer FFS - but seeing the number of vitriolic responses on here, maybe being abusive to your seriously, perhaps terminally, ill mum is justified if she owes you money.

I presume when she does manage to repay him the £20k, the OP can then use her new spreadsheet to demand the £300 a month be repaid direct to her and shout and scream at her son until he does so?