Is it that much of a turn-off when a man never had a GF?

[SharpMember]

The only sex I ever had was what I paid for at age 30 after trying to get it the normal way all my life. I paid for it until I was like 34 but after that age it’s been the same as it was in my 20s. I am 39 now and still single simply because I lack experience in real relationships.

should I give up?

What happened was, I asked her out and said I loved her and said I’d always be there for her and help her out in any way (especially since I could afford it financially as I made 75k back then).

I also said I love her and the fact that she still chose to be in my life despite all that occurred, and I offered to be in hers the same way no matter what. I explained I spent 2 years going back to school to get a better job and afford a better place so that I could financially afford to spend more time with her.

I then said I was completely inexperienced with relationships, which is what caused her to reject me.

If a man told me, before I had even agreed to date him, that he loved me, would always be there for me and went back to school to earn more money because of me then I wouldn't be flattered, I would feel smothered and creeped out.

And I can imagine in that situation saying that his lack of relationship experience was the issue rather than his intense, overwhelming and offputting approach to asking me out.

People meet, get on naturally, have a laugh, discover in a relaxed and easy way that they get on well and enjoy each others company. The next date is lined up as the last one was so fun, things progress organically. That's how it's meant to go.

You seem to think that if you tick certain boxes then it's insane someone wouldn't want to go out with you. I know lots of nice blokes with good jobs who I don't fancy. I'm sure they feel the same about me. Chemistry, natural chemistry, can't be forced. And it's something that is a must for many people. Men and women alike.

Well would you date a bum who can barely afford to live on his own?

someone with a shithole place in a bad area?

Money isn't everything, you could be the richest man in the world but have a significant personality disorder, and women wouldn't be interested in you.
You seem to think your check boxes are all a woman should want.

As has been said before, you would really benefit from some counselling, because you are not seeing the replies here as valid answers to your questions.

Maybe it was your inexperience that caused that particular person to reject you. It wouldn't be a deal breaker for a lot of people, as at least one previous poster has said. We can't know for sure why she didn't want to be with you, we don't know her and she's not here to tell us. What seems to have happened is you heard her 'reason' and came to the conclusion that the only way you were ever going to impress her in the future was if you had some sexual experience first. Maybe you concluded that was the only way you would ever get any girlfriend in the future. I don't think paying a woman for sex so that you could get experience has worked out for you in the way you hoped it would. To be honest, it wasn't a good idea. But on the other hand, you can't change the past and you need to try and move on. I wouldn't say you've completely spoiled your chances of ever meeting someone who'll want to be with you, but you could definitely do with getting better guidance in future.

@SharpMember

Well would you date a bum who can barely afford to live on his own?

someone with a shithole place in a bad area?

But her options presumably weren't 'a bum who can barely afford to live on his own', 'someone with a shithole place in a bad area' or you, were they?

Her options were say yes to dating you or say no to dating you and wait to meet someone else she might want to date.

Did you actually read the rest of my post?

What are your thought on this bit:

If a man told me, before I had even agreed to date him, that he loved me, would always be there for me and went back to school to earn more money because of me then I wouldn't be flattered, I would feel smothered and creeped out.

Can you see how that would be offputting and intense to be on the receiving end of?

@SharpMember

You also don't seem willing to acknowledge that some women would rather be single than date someone who on paper ticks traditional boxes (good salary etc) but they simply don't really fancy.

You seem to think women are wrong or a bit mental to say no to dating a man who is on paper doing the 'right' things.

It doesn't mean they are going to date someone doing the 'wrong' things. It means they would rather be single until they meet someone they really like.

Sometimes we just aren't that into you personally 🤷🏻‍♀️

I wanted to ask why she really turned me down but didn’t have the heart. I too wonder if it was merely inexperience.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but Lack of experience hardly overrides for what was 12 years of prior history at that point.

@SharpMember

What are your thought on this bit of my post:

If a man told me, before I had even agreed to date him, that he loved me, would always be there for me and went back to school to earn more money because of me then I wouldn't be flattered, I would feel smothered and creeped out.

Can you see how that would be offputting and intense to be on the receiving end of?

yes I can, it could look obsessive.

my turn: does 12 years of great history really mean nothing just because a guy had no prior relationships?

It likely means she wasn’t attracted to you.

My partner when I met him was one of the lower earners I dated but we shared values, We had the same sense of humour. We had fun together and clicked and had chemistry. Also he had a strong work ethic and morals which worked for me.

It’s about so much more than money.

@SharpMember

yes I can, it could look obsessive.

And can you see how unattractive that would be?

my turn: does 12 years of great history really mean nothing just because a guy had no prior relationships?

What do you mean by 'mean nothing'? Great history as friends doesn't at all mean you get some sort of queue jump to boyfriend.

In fact, I bet many other women like me on this thread have had at least one male friend declare feelings for them after a long time of what we thought was a platonic relationship. It's almost invariably a sinking feeling that makes you question whether the friendship was real or if they were just holding out and investing time in you in the hope of it ending up with you shagging.

I've had three male friends tell me they love me after I've become single, at various times, and have been upset by all of them. I thought they were some of my closest friends and confidantes. Them declaring that when I've given zero indication ever that I'm interested in that way tarnished what were previously lovely memories, tbh.

But your history was as friends. She had no obligation to go out with you just because you’d been friends for years, and frankly she didn’t have any obligation to give you a justification for not going out with you. If she didn’t want to, for whatever reason, you should respect that and stop trying to seek some reason for why she didn’t want to fuck you. Not wanting to is enough.

And are you going to seek out therapy?

All of this.

OP, sometimes someone just doesn't fancy you. Even if you do everything 'right' on paper and tick off their list. You can't force chemistry and a natural attraction.

Omg sorry, it was the middle of the night. I meant to express the idea of a relationship and a woman that are happening back in the regular world, i.e. outside the transactional nature of sex work. Real as in the real thing, not that a sex worker isn't real. Kicking myself.

OP you acknowledging that your approach could look obsessive is an important step for you. Maybe you were relying on certain factors because you've got some uncertainty and a lack of self-confidence around how to make relationships with women.

I wonder if your idea of "great history" was very different to her idea? It's just that sometimes we can perceive things very differently to how they're perceived by others.

Can you explain why it tarnished them? I don’t understand that part. Why not just continue being friends afterwards?

See, I didn’t originally have those feelings for her, I developed them overtime.

If you are someone who thinks it's fine to buy women's bodies, I imagine you also have other attitudes and qualities that women find unappealing.

Makes sense though if a dude is being rejected for being a virgin

20+ times a year

How is this even an issue 20+ times a year?

Are you saying you get dates, get along, etc then get rejected when you start to chat about sex? Because that sounds unlikely.

Or are you introducing yourself with this information? Because that is weird.

I think you are over invested in this woman. For me too, if a guy made me the kind of declaration you made her, I’d panic, unless I was already in love with him. That approach would not work in any other case. I agree about getting yourself checked out for STIs, and starting again on a clean slate and putting this woman as far as possible to the back of your mind, if she wanted to be with you she would by now.

@SharpMember

Can you explain why it tarnished them? I don’t understand that part. Why not just continue being friends afterwards?

I find it difficult to believe you don't understand how one friend declaring their love for the other without warning would change the friendship to the point it's likely they couldn't 'just continue' being friends afterwards.

But assuming you're being genuine, it completely shifts the dynamic of the relationship.

Things I previously thought were done out of platonic love and respect I then wondered if they were done in the hope of reciprocal feelings or even sex.

Where they had offered advice and support around break ups, I wondered if they genuinely thought the other person was wrong for me or if they had in fact been jealous / keen for me to be single as they had feelings for me.

Where I had been in intimate or vulnerable settings, such as being drunk in a room alone, I felt concerned that they would have been considering whether or not to make a move on me while I was feeling relaxed and safe.

Can you understand any of those examples? I wonder if you struggle with putting yourself in other people's shoes perhaps.

@SharpMember

Makes sense though if a dude is being rejected for being a virgin

20+ times a year

You were meeting 20+ women a year you were interested in and telling them all you were a virgin and being rejected by all of them?

I understand the “doing things out of hope of sex in return”.

This woman never talked to me about breakups though, so that part is moot. Though I admit I don’t know how I would’ve acted if I did.

And I never would’ve made a move on her if she was drunk, as I wanted her to date me and make that decision sober-mindedly

You are fixated on this woman and the reason she didn’t want to date you, which could honestly have been anything from she wasn’t physically attracted to you to she had her eye on someone else to you have bad breath to she gets an obsessive vibe off you to she was uncomfortable with your lack of experience to she’s looking for someone funnier.

Nobody here can tell you for sure.

Could it have been your lack of experience? Yes. But it is likely not only that.

It also seems intense and hard to believe that you are getting rejected 20+ times a year for being a virgin. I can’t imagine having time to find 20 people in a year that I liked enough and had gotten to know well enough to want to have sex with.

Why are you even telling women you’re a virgin (which you’re not if you’ve used sex workers) if you think it’s likely to be a problem? I didn’t tell my boyfriend how many people I’d slept with before we first had sex and we’ve actually never discussed either of our “numbers” a year into the relationship.

If you are giving 20+ women a year the chance to reject you by telling them shortly after you start communicating “I am a virgin is that a problem for you?” then you are focusing way too hard on the sex side of relationships and not giving yourself or another person a chance to get to know each other as people and build attraction.

I understand the “doing things out of hope of sex in return”.

You understand it as in you do it? Or you understand that it feels horrible for a woman to know a male friend did nice things 'with the hope of sex in return'? Your use of the words 'in return' is telling. The way you talk about relationships is so transactional. As if it's something women let men do to them as a reward for what they give them.

This woman never talked to me about breakups though, so that part is moot. Though I admit I don’t know how I would’ve acted if I did.

It's not moot then, is it. You've admitted you're not sure if you would have let your feelings / jealous / hope for sex secretly influence the advice and support you gave the friend in question, had you discussed with them a recent break up of theirs.

And knowing that, you can surely understand why the woman in the scenario would feel the friendship had been tainted or tarnished if they found out the friend had actually had hopes for a romantic relationship / sex with them?