When do you just know its wrong?

[LostInMyLife]

So I am in a tricky situation with DH. For months he has hardly been near me physically, we have been intimate about every 6 weeks, I have lost weight, my low self esteem thought it was how I looked and I have been trying to initiate us being intimate but it never happens, he does struggle with his mental health or he has the classic "headache" everytime. The low self esteem has completely gone altho the weigh loss has given me a little more confidence in myself and I feel better in myself despite how I feel within the relationship.

Anyway over the weekend I stood near DH and he had a long text message on his phone and he turned it away from me, I think that was the final straw and everything clicked. Now this sounds silly but last night I woke up as he turned over and he actually put his arm by me and moved away, I realised he has tucked his blanket so he was actively not touching me. I shot up and woke up, and I can't speak with him, in my head there must be someone else otherwise why would he check out all day. I have been to work then took dd out, got back and had a long bath I haven't actually spoken to him today, I can't face it but moreover he hasn't spoken with me either. Now if he acted like that out of nowhere I would be checking in to see how he is...clearly he doesn't care anymore. I am heart broken, weve been together nearly 20 years and were nearly 40, weve never been like this. But now looking back I can see it's been like this for months and I am so scared. I don't care if he leaves but I care about dd, and how it will impact her. She is closer to her dad than me, it breaks my heart but I work full time and support the household, he is just around more. I don't know what to do.
Am I being stupid? I just feel lost.

I also don't want to look for evidence because frankly it's not about someone else, although that would be a deal breaker but how I feel now it enough for me. What do I do?

I didn't finally get rid of him to have a mini version here instead and that is what I will be telling her.

I’m sure you already know this but please be careful not to use language like this when you talk to dd. Set out what you’re able to do in terms of running her around, tell her that you need respect, all of that. Just don’t talk about her dad, if you can avoid it, or neutral language / tone if you have to mention him. Please don’t label any behaviour you want to challenge in her as “like your dad”.

Im sorry to hear that her behaviour has been difficult. I can really feel it through your posts that you’re holding everything together and just getting stretched too thin by it all. Wish we could somehow find a way to give you a couple of days off to just rest a bit. Hopefully you get some down time over the weekend.

@Uol2022 thank you I wouldn't ever use this language out loud, it's more for my own mental space regarding what I expect for myself. I won't be discussing her dad and his behaviour at all. Its not something dd needs to hear. It was my train of thought and won't be the wording I plan on using.

Dd has still been through a lot but I do want to guide her in the best way I possibly can.

The word appropriate is what I am using a lot at the moment and it's because I am trying to form what is and is not appropriate to discuss with dd, how to discuss things with dd and how to move forward.

There's no way for a few days rest from it all at the moment, and yes I am stretched very thin, I think everything has taken its toll on me and the last few days H has upped his tactics I am assuming to get a rise from me, so again I have taken some time, had a mini meltdown in my head and got some clarity before approaching what I need to.

Remember also that you do not have to relentlessly explain yourself.

She can ask but
"no"
"Thats not happening"
"Doesn't suit me"
"Doesn't work for me"
"Can't help there"

These are all answers to have on the tip of your tongue to anything he or she ask.

Neither of them are entitled to any explanation and in fact not giving one is very effective.

You say "NO" and then silence. Complete silence.

Silence is very empowering when dealing with nasty people and cheeky fxxkers.

If he texts, reply NO, and don't engage.

If you enage, he feels he is in control.
Take that power and control away.

Also, the calmer, happier, better you look, the worse he will feel.

Let that be your payback to him, living and looking well.

Stay away from accusing her of being like him or abusing you as he abused you! That is a very dangerous and improper way of framing this.

The problem you are having is that she is selfish, as young children are, and she is trying to bind up her broken household. Your problem is that catering to her need to see him isn’t working for you and is putting you back into the cycle you are trying to break of someone demanding service and you complying. You have a problem people pleasing and overcompensating. She is just used to that.

Stop your own cycle by simply

1. listening to her requests and then
2. affirming that you understand
3. telling her calmly and non judgmentally what you will or won’t do.

In the previous incident you would have listened to her ask to go to her dad’s at 10 pm and said:

*Thank you for telling me you miss dad and want to see him. I appreciate your telling me as I know this set up seems hard.

But a trip out tonight again is not what I planned and I can’t do it. Would you like to call your dad and see if he is available to pick you up tonight?

These sudden and spontaneous trips don’t work with my schedule anymore. If you snd your dad want to set up regular visits and he can facilitate them why don’t we do that starting tomorrow? *

No need to do his job or facilitate the relationship. But also absolutely no need to burden or shame her for controlling or abusing you.

@pikkumyy77 thank you, as I said above the wording wouldn't be used with dd. I haven't in all the years I have been a mother and certainly wouldn't know. It is more the wording of how I am expressing my thoughts in my head of what I want.
Dd is not like her dad, she isn't. She maybe pushing some boundaries, which is understandable in the circumstances I just need to reiterate what is acceptable.

@Creameded thank you, those wording certainly does help, after the months of you and @Bittenonce helping me I am sure your both aware, I know what I want to say but struggle to get the words how I want them so I just don't say them rather than saying the wrong this. I am also going to focus on not oversharing my reasons for not wanting to do something. Last night was on me though, I should have just said no but tbh I was completely blindsided and it took me back. She's coming home shortly so i will speak with her then. And before anyone worries I will not compare her to her dad, it won't be a negative conversation as tbh that is the opposite of me, I am positive and try to be reassuring, kind and compassionate.

I've only just found this post @LostInMyLife and don't have a load to add other than you are amazing! You've been so brave and resolute in the face of yet another man child and his pathetic antics.

I wish you and your daughter the best, you two will be just grand💐

Hope you are taking the time to enjoy what you can of today, OP.

@pikkumyy77 makes interesting points.

I don't think you have any intention of comparing her to her father or accuse her of abusing you, or burdening her at all.

But you do have every right to not be used as a taxi anytime it suits either of them.

You can absolutely frame it as simply not convenient.
She will get the message quickly enough.

You can tell her that you too are entitled to your down time and to make arrangements without feeling that you are expected to drop everything at the drop of a hat.

These are things that often need to be pointed out to teens.

He will take pleasure in you havjng to run around so the sooner you are firm the better all round.

Even the simple statement of saying "No I'm tired" is useful.

It never does any harm to remind teens that you too are capable of feeling exhausted, that you want, and will have uninterrupted down time.

I think you just need to be factual that if she wants to see her Dad needs to pick her up and drop her back as you do a lot more running around for her already.

Thank you all for your messages.

@Creameded thank you I wouldn't never speak with dd like that, that isn't me at all. Dd sent me a sharp message this morning. Tbh it didn't need to be a message at all, just a moan that I had done something I hadn't. I reminded her of the conversation on Saturday and she said ok. I picked her up today after school and she was much happier, boundaries are hopefully working. She was chatting, laughing and joking, I took my friend back and she was chatting to her too, normally she's quiet but this is becoming a weekly thing and she is opening up.

Good for you.
Quiet, firm boundaries all the way.
She will admire you for it, even if she pushes back at times.

You are doing great.

So ive had a few days in my own head as tbh i realised H really has done a number on me.

So after building up the conversation with dd, it was fine, just a few sentences nothing major, no kick off or anything bad said she was fine, then I realised I was so worked up because I was imagining his reaction to the conversation and not dds. Dd is a different person and will listen and take in what I say, she is not timid, she will 100% fight her corner or if she feels something isn't true or how she saw it, then it hit me. Dd is more like me than I ever imagined, yes she has more confidence but we can all guess why but again that will come now i am working on myself.

H didn't try to speak with me over the weekend, he is avoiding me which is good I suppose just not when I wanted to speak with him, he thinks he is in control and my new moto is "let him think what he wants" all this is not for long, he will soon be out my hair and he will need to see me soon enough. Its parents evening this week and he knows as dd can't go to a club he takes her too i am waiting to see if he mentions wanting to go (I don't think he will) he has never and I mean not once been to a parents evening. Dd has been at her school nearly 3 years he has been in there twice for events that I encouraged him to go to for dd. He's missed more than he went to. But again if he wants to come he can but it is not my responsibility to facilitate him taking an interest in dd. Academics are a strong thing for me and I want dd to do the best she can so I take an interest. He hasn't got any aspirations for himself nevermind dd.

I have also discussed what I want to do for me with my sister. Well, I am going to join a gym I think a few if my friends go at different times so I wouldn't have to be on my own if I didn't want to be. I have also always wanted to learn to dance and there are some classes nearby, now I can't do both (time wise and money) so I am debating trying a dance class and see how I like it as it's something I have always wanted to do but also the gym i do know that I can fit the gym in in bits and bobs rather than a set time each week so it's more practical. I shall see this week and see how I feel about each.

Right time to get myself up to bed, I haven't been sleeping well again but I am going to bed and forcing sleep upon myself tonight.

Thank you, that is my approach quiet and consistent boundaries. Not every conversation needs to be a big one, sometimes the loudest words are spoken in the quietest whisper. I hope that makes sense I just mad it up 🤣 worryingly it makes sense to me but my brain is already shot!

You're doing great! Well done!

Thank you @LivelyMintViper I am trying my best!

Another busy work day but relaxed evening, dd went to my mums for a few hours as H couldn't collect her today, work apparently but who knows or more importantly who cares? 😂😂
My mum and dd came to mine once I was back, we all chatted ate pancakes and had a lovely few hours. Once she went me and dd spoke about school work and how she is getting on along with the dramas of high school....wouldn't want to go back there!

Funny how at this point in the week it is delightful, we have our routine and it just works but once it gets to when she's gone to her dad's she comes back with an attitude and sense of entitlement, I spoke with a friend earlier who has been through this and she said it is normal and she said what you all said, to just keep enforcing the expectations and have a loving environment for dd and thats what I keep doing.

Quiet life over here. Dd is staying at H tonight, she asked me this morning, which is more notice than I have been having. I didn't even think of her asking just letting me know so I am meeting up with a friend for an hour so I'm not just staying in, I have also asked her if H is picking her up as I have things to do, she said she would ask...progress!

Had a wobble today at work. Got quite overwhelmed, not sure why I think i just had a wobble. Feeling a bit down but dd is back home and with me for the weekend, she will see H when he takes her to a club and I will go to collect other than that she is with me, as far as I am aware. I am sure a weekend with dd will cheer me up, I think its because I am feeling more alone than ever and I hate keep relying on my friends and family when dd isn't around. I need more, I need me. I am joining the gym later and at some point this weekend I am going, if anything just to give me something for me and it's flexible to do when I need somewhere to be just for me. I need to be more independent I always have done and I am going to get it back except this time I won't do it with isolation that I have done in the past and pull away from people I will do it for myself but not to be by myself...if that makes sense.

Right I'm off now and going to salvage the rest of my Friday.

Look how far you've come, you're doing great.
Totally natural to feel scared, it will just take time.

Ah it's not linear process is it - I think of it more as a wiggly line, some good days where you're on top of the world and days when you're in the dip and it all feels exhausting. You're doing so bloody brilliantly though, joining the gym is a really good idea. Don't feel bad about relying on friends and family support - I'm sure they can see what you've been through, how you're handling things and are only too happy to be able to support you.

Keep going, you're amazing 😻

just read this thread you are doing amazing but get those locks changed

@LostInMyLife wobbles will happen. You’re doing good. Yes, you’re right to find things to do for yourself, but don’t be ashamed of keeping friends close too, okay? You need them.

@Diarygirlqueen thank you, feeling scared it a feeling I am becoming very familiar with.

@mrsmagooandtheblueshoe thank you, the gym is definitely a good option because it is flexible, I am not used to leaning on people as much but I am trying I just don't want to suck their souls out with my life. Because it certainly feels like mine is being sucked out sometimes.

@Bittenonce I do love you! Thank you, wobbles are ok, I'm going to keep telling myself that and hopefully il start to believe it.

Quiet weekend, still got something in the pit of my stomach. Saw H yesterday at dds club he literally walked off from her and left her there on her own with a passing comment "your mum can take you home im going out" poor kid was just left standing there, but i took her home and we chatted and laughed. Today I went out this morning and he collected her from her club and took her to his, I called her and asked if she didn't mind staying so I could have a quick drink with my friend at a club I go to, she was fine then kept texting me asking when I was going to get her...I promptly collected dd and she was fine when she got in the car and now we're home she is happy.

Like i said I have been feeling like something is in the pit of my stomach and I just feel crappy. I'm hoping it will pass, I am looking at breaks for this year for us, nothing expensive as I can't afford that but I want to take dd away I think I might just try and save what I can then book something last minute for the holidays. I also want to look for something for next year for dd and me for us to look forward too but I need a few more months to see how my budget is looking first. Me and dd love to travel, H was not bothered by it he just went as I was paying now it's 2 not 3 people it will be nice to have cheaper holidays to pay for and also less spending money as me and dd are fairly low maintenance.

'I just don't want to suck their souls out with my life'

I am similar to you, I don't want to rely on others / burden them etc. but a couple of years ago I did a leadership course and as part of it we had to ask 5-10 people close to us for an honest assessment of how they perceived us and what we brought to their lives. It was such an eye opener for me - where I felt I was dragging people down / putting on them, they pointed out how I enriched their lives in ways I hadn't even considered. And they felt closer to me, felt like our relationship was more authentic, when I was able to ask for support.

I guess what I'm saying is, you're clearly a wonderful person who brings joy, loyalty, humour, kindness etc etc to other people's lives. Don't underestimate that, or let it hold you back from asking for their support. Would you think a friend was 'dragging you down' if they were sharing their problems with you, and you were able to support?