When do you just know its wrong?

[LostInMyLife]

So I am in a tricky situation with DH. For months he has hardly been near me physically, we have been intimate about every 6 weeks, I have lost weight, my low self esteem thought it was how I looked and I have been trying to initiate us being intimate but it never happens, he does struggle with his mental health or he has the classic "headache" everytime. The low self esteem has completely gone altho the weigh loss has given me a little more confidence in myself and I feel better in myself despite how I feel within the relationship.

Anyway over the weekend I stood near DH and he had a long text message on his phone and he turned it away from me, I think that was the final straw and everything clicked. Now this sounds silly but last night I woke up as he turned over and he actually put his arm by me and moved away, I realised he has tucked his blanket so he was actively not touching me. I shot up and woke up, and I can't speak with him, in my head there must be someone else otherwise why would he check out all day. I have been to work then took dd out, got back and had a long bath I haven't actually spoken to him today, I can't face it but moreover he hasn't spoken with me either. Now if he acted like that out of nowhere I would be checking in to see how he is...clearly he doesn't care anymore. I am heart broken, weve been together nearly 20 years and were nearly 40, weve never been like this. But now looking back I can see it's been like this for months and I am so scared. I don't care if he leaves but I care about dd, and how it will impact her. She is closer to her dad than me, it breaks my heart but I work full time and support the household, he is just around more. I don't know what to do.
Am I being stupid? I just feel lost.

I also don't want to look for evidence because frankly it's not about someone else, although that would be a deal breaker but how I feel now it enough for me. What do I do?

You know when you shouldn't start down the rabbit hole?? Well I started a little, I remembered DHs email is logged into my laptop, so I had a little look...well he has been enquiring about some properties to rent in the local area, he enquired using his details but our neighbours address...I am assuming in case they send any junk mail. This was Wednesday morning, and he has a "big chunk of money to pay the rent for a few months in advance" nice, I mean he doesn't give me anything so I am assuming he has had money from his parents....good luck to him esp as I pay all the bills and he doesn't contribute much, not sure where he is going to get the substantial chunk of rent for the place each month. I know it may sound like sour grapes but he won't even talk to me, i am assuming that he just wants to make a flit in the night, and I'm here worrying about dd....

Anyway had a lovely day with various friends, collected dd from her trip and now I am going to iron our uniforms for tomorrow. I asked him this morning and he was too unwell to talk, I gave him a deadline of tonight...we spoke he said he isn't happy in the relationship, my response was " i love you and therefore I don't want you to be unhappy so we need to make a plan for the next steps" he looked shocked and didn't say anything else. I can tell he is not used to me not trying, making promises to try harder and that it is all my fault, because frankly it is not my fault. I haven't done anything at all just wanted to be loved by him.

Sometimes ‘don’t care’ seems worse than hate, somehow. But if the love’s run out (it happens, I know….) then time apart will show you both if it’s gone for good. Right now it feels like you’re doing the right things - you’re getting on with your life and what needs to be done. You’re not moping, you’re not broken, you’re not bottling things up. Chin up girl, there’s a light at the end of the tunnel

A quiet few days here, DH has not been talking and he has not really left the house for anything other than the school runs, different from the past few weeks when he has been in and out lots and ignoring my emergency calls.

Not moved forward or backwards, I am in limbo and tbh it is taking it toll being strong but I am trying. Work is hard atm it's busy anyway and my manager isn't exactly the greatest so I am just trying to keep my head above water at the moment as I am being pulled from everywhere.

Planned a night away with some friends for next year, this is something i would have always loved to do secretly but I know he wouldn't like it, would cause arguments and so I never booked anything at all but now I am seeing myself differently and what I want my view is changing. DD can stay with her grandparents if needed for a night and it means I get to be me for a little bit. Part of me feels awful thinking of it, as I should be spending the money on DD rather than myself but she has more than enough, she is not missing out on anything due to me having 1 night with my friends.

Wish he would either go or at least talk to me about how he is feeling, knowing Christmas is around the corner I do not want to spend Christmas day in this atmosphere, I will give him until Friday and if nothing changes I will make plans with my family but I will tell him first. I am not a monster and wouldn't want him being sat in the house on his own either so he can make plans (he won't but that won't be down to me not telling him)

Trying to stay strong!

Well done for keeping going, you can do this.

Don’t feel bad about planning a night away. You need to recharge and your DD will be fine.

Can’t believe your H is just hanging around saying nothing, what an emotional black hole! I think you might as well go ahead and start making your plans.

You are doing bloody amazing OP.

Love that line you gave him about making plans for the next steps as opposed to begging him to stay. That has stumped him. Think the penny has dropped that this cannot go on and you are no longer having any of it.

And yes it's good that you are making plans for a night away with friends. You are definitely finding your inner strength now. No more pandering to him. He needs to go, and quickly. You and your dd will be fine.

Without meaning to sound patronising, I'm so proud of you.
I think in the long run you will like life better without him, you've been existing in this relationship, but I can tell you are already starting to live again.
Please keep us posted.
You 100% deserve a better life than you have been living x

Thank you for your kind messages.

@Copperoliverbear you did not sound patronising, it helped spurr me on. I felt a little wobbly earlier thinking maybe I should just try and be the old me and make things better to stop the atmosphere but then I stopped myself thinking like that, I haven't done anything, I haven't rocked his world...he has destroyed mine or at least the one I have spent almost half my life building with him. The atmosphere is his doing, he is definitely stumped at me not begging for us to be how we were. The longer I think about it the more I cant stop thinking that actually our relationship was me wanting something loving, and him wanting whatever he wanted and on his terms. Even down to what we ate, if he didn't like certain foods me and dd love, we had to have them when he wasn't here...otherwise I would need to cook 2 meals, one for us and one for him. I am not sure if it was love or stupidity on my part but if he loved or cared or even just thought about me being out the house for 9 hours, often with him in the house wouldn't you either eat it (i would) or make something for yourself. His levels of selfishness are really starting to show and the worst thing is, if I ever complained, I was the problem.

I am now not feeling guilty about making plans for a little bit of a life I want and feel I deserve. I am grateful I have some wonderful friends who are there and willing to make plans with me and still be around me. After years of making all the plans for the family and him not even thinking about suggesting anything never mind booking anything it feels liberating, its also nice someone wants to do things with me. Again I almost...not almost I had actually forgot that people wanted to do something with me that I hadn't instigated, arranged and paid for.

As for DH, he is still not talking, I am small talking, cooking his food and pottering about myself as usual, this is all for dd not for him and certainly not for me. Tomorrow is the day where we will talk about Christmas. If I don't like the answers, and frankly there is nothing he can say that will make me like the answers but you never know. I will be making arrangements for me and dd to have dinner with my family, I say arrangements it will be one call but then I will have to admit everything to my family, my mum still only knows bits. Tbh they may know not to poke the beast and just accept us knowing the rest will come in time.

As for me, except for the wobble I am focusing on me and dd, I've made Christmas eve plans and booked the cinema to see a film we want to see, finished the last of her Christmas shopping and I am trying to plan as much as I can into the next 2 weeks so whatever happens it will feel magical and fun for dd.

Sorry for always having long posts only this is where I feel I can be truly honest without judgement. At the moment this is where I am the most free, but I know it won't be forever.

Well done @LostInMyLife . Just have a couple of stock things ready to say if he tries to guilt-trip you about Xmas plans tomorrow or tries to get you agree to something you don’t want to. You know better than us what he might say but the usual “that doesn’t work for me”, “I will have to get back to you on that”, “I will think about that and let you know”. Mind you, it seems highly unlikely that he is suddenly going to enter into reasonable discussions, given his weird avoidance so far. Best of luck with it tomorrow, you are doing great!

@LostInMyLife you’re a star. Hope all goes well today. And - keep those friends close!

I haven't checked in as I have had a busy week breaking up for Christmas and some family issues. So we had a little chat today, he was reluctant but I continued, he has had more than enough time. I asked him if he meant what he said and he said he did at the time, I explained to him that if he didn't mean it he would have showed it, I explained about the line you should never cross and he looked away, I told him to look at me (I have never been like this but he may not respect me but he will show me respect given what he has put me through) I explained that I will never trust him again even if he did change and that i am aware he won't ever try to change to gain my trust back. I told him he needs to leave, he refused and I explained again that I cannot trust him and that I haven't actually done anything at all and that he has done all this, he said "your not perfect either" and I calmly explained that I know I am not perfect but I was at that time willing to try and he gave up on us and so me and dd will not be losing our home due to his behaviour, he made the choice and he can remove himself from our home. I told him that I know he is here because he has no where else and reminded him he has his parents house, a little reminder to him that he is not the poor unfortunate soul in all this, as he likes to make out most of the time. I was quite calm, did not raise my voice and firm with what I said and he now knows there is no going back.

I have also spoken with my best friend today, she was livid at me for not telling her sooner and bottling it up (she knows when something comes out it's usually far past the point of no return) she is calling me again tomorrow and we can talk then, she wants regular check ins (we don't speak every day or even once a week sometimes but she is my rock). She has lost all respect for DH, and said if she thinks that there is anyone else she will never speak to him again even if i do stay (I won't) she was very clear. It felt nice telling her how I was feeling and knowing I have her behind me. I have cried tonight more than I have done the past 2.5 weeks, I think everything with him and my family. I know I am grieving for what we had before but that doesn't mean I can't look forward to the future. Mine and dds future, just us. I am off to bed now and we will see what tomorrow brings.

@Bittenonce your right, it is a weird avoidance. Personally I think he knows he has gone too far with what he said and he wanted to hurt me. Unfortunately I didn't trust him anyway, he doesn't show me love therefore if he were to have tried at the beginning to take it back then maybe but not this far down the line, how could I ever believe anything he says. He's hurt me really bad, it has cut deep and I could never love that that.

One last parting word I said to him was "i am too young to live like this, and I deserve to be happy" and walked out the room and that's my new mantra. I am young enough to start again (not with someone else i am done) but with building my life back up and I do deserve happiness, just me and dd gives me all the happiness I need, and surely if I am a happier mother it will benefit our daughter. Him he won't ever be truly happy because he likes to wallow in his own self pity and be the hard done by one in every situation.

But what I hate the most, is how long I have tried to justify it, to accept this as the truth and that it is normal or acceptable. I hate myself for that but having my light bulb moment several weeks ago in the middle of the night has made me realise it isn't the life I want, I deserve better, if I get myself there it will be better for me and dd, I will make it better.

So well done @LostInMyLife aside from his current behaviour, it sounds like you’ve been carrying the family for a long time if you pay all the bills and do all the cooking etc. wondering what he even contributes except misery and moodiness?

You handled that conversation brilliantly especially when he tried to deflect by saying you’re not perfect and for sticking to your guns in telling him to leave.

Well done @LostInMyLife - that was a really hard conversation but you stood up for yourself amazingly.

Keep taking the support IRL, it’s great that you finally felt able to share with your best friend xx

Well done, you have got your power back.
You sound a lovely lady and a wonderful mother. You deserve so much better and tbh, I'm not sure what he brings to the table? It doesn't sound as if he works or contributes much to your life.
Have an amazing Christmas and I hope 2025 brings you happiness and peace.

@LostInMyLife seeing this really cheered me. Sounds like your head’s in a really good place. Wishing you and your daughter a Happy Christmas ❤️

Well done @LostInMyLife keep your family and friends updated so they can support you through this. Stay strong. I hope you and your lovely DD have a great Christmas 🎁

@Ladyoatcookies your right, i have been carrying this family for a while. I have opened up to my sister today, it felt freeing and she said the same thing, that I have enabled him to move forward in his life, I have helped him and supported him in every way and he has shown his true colours.

@Peachy2005 it was a hard conversation, it was vile but I stood up for myself and for what I deserve.

@Diarygirlqueen You are right, over the past few weeks I have been thinking, what does he bring to the table? Well he is a good dad, but I am comparing that to my waste of space father, I always wanted to family unit for dd I didn't have. I think he wanted a marriage like his own parents, which imo is abusive and unhappy. I think his recent behaviour especially today has shown he is not the dad and man I thought him to be. Also thank you for your kind words, it means so much.

@Bittenonce thank you, I felt stronger this morning wavered tonight but I am trying to hold my head up high for dd.

@Fannyfiggs thank you, I am definitely "saying it out loud" to my family and friends, only 3 in total but the support has been amazing, it just scared me to say it then it makes it real, but in reality saying it or not it is still real, but I am not dealing with it on my own.

So today has been horrid. Worst day so far. No speaking at all. He went to work, I took dd out and when at my sisters received a message saying, he can't move out for a few days but he will sort it and leave. Then seconds after, sent a message saying I should take dd somewhere (he means my mums) for Christmas dinner so it's a nice atmosphere for her. He's works until really late....and suspiciously working later and later recently...anyway. I broke down to my sister, it all came out everything. I have never cried in someone's arms before today but I sobbed. He took the cowards way out again and I have had to have a tricky talk with dd, she said she knew something was happening but never expected it. She asked if we were splitting and I said I don't know all the answers yet but when I do she will know, I explained I will try and be open and honest as much as I can (I won't talk bad about her dad, I never would because I do love him i just will never trust him and am angry at him for the hurt he has caused us, and I will never be with him again) he wasn't here for that conversation but he will be here for the one where he tells her he is leaving. He can't have everything easy. I have sent my mum a message saying things arent great here but can me and dd come for dinner, my sister will be there and bless her she said dd could have her dinner before we stayed here miserable, but there will be plenty for us and my family will make us welcome. Dd asked me if we split up where will she live, I have told her she can have the choice and we would do as she wanted, she refused this and I explained that this is her home and mine and we would be staying here and she can see her dad as much as she likes. She went to her room and came back again. 1.5 hours later she's calmer, still upset but wanting to speak with a trusted friend. She has been so responsible and quite level headed, esp given her age. I feel worse than before, why did he have to be like this THIS WEEK, why couldn't he have waited a week pretended everything was ok? Put dd first rather than his own selfishness. I hate him for everything he has done but I am taking the moral high ground all I can, if I falter he will use it against me and I won't stoop to his level, no matter how much I want to.

The positive to come is that he has agreed to move out, I never saw it coming but that confirms there is someone else, and me not acting how he wants or waiting on his timelines as someone said last week has shook him and now he has reacted.

Moneywise, I have gone through my bills and I can make it, not half as bad as I thought, all the bills can be paid and shopping money, I should also be entitled to some UC to top it up to help make things a little easier, I am not nieve to think it will be easy but if I can manage we will be ok. The joy of being used for years and being the breadwinner I suppose, there is nothing I can't do...except use a drill but my sister can so she can show me.

Seriously dreading this week but I suppose even if it is Christmas it gives me time with dd to reassure her and for her to come to terms with things, I am not saying she will be over it but her head maybe a little more clearer before she goes back to school.

@LostInMyLife you are doing amazing.
I was in a similar situation with my ex, I supported all of us, breadwinner, I did all the cooking and cleaning, did 90% of the child care with paid help when I was working.
My ex didn’t like the knackered, ground down woman I had become, and had 2 emotional affairs leading to a physical one which may have started before we split.
I had to push her to tell me she wanted out, the flip flopping was horrendous and after we split she still stayed in the house for many months, dragging out the unpleasantness.
I see her for who she is now - always looking to take as much as she can get from people, she abused me mentally and financially. I have flourished since then and she is a deeply unhappy person who cannot handle the fact that I’m better off without her.
Many people didn’t see her true character especially as in a same sex relationship people assume that there’s a more equal relationship and I hid the truth from others.
I remember thinking that I gave her everything, all I wanted was for her to love me and she couldn’t even manage that.
Now I just feel sorry for her - she struggles with budgeting, time management, housework - all the things I had to shoulder alone, despite pleading with her to help me. While I finally have time to myself, money to spend on me, the kids and the house, a tidy house and a great nanny to help me who I get on well with.
It’s been a rough road but I am truly happy and at peace and I know it will happen for you too.

I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him.
I suspect the whole 'have a nice christmas dinner elsewhere' is him up to something. I wouldn't let him stay in the home alone whilst you go visiting family. It's possible he intends to take things that aren't his. Or have his new fancy woman over.

I hope he has no access to your money?
If there are joint accounts, beware he may drain them.

Also, not to put the fear of God in you but I mean he does sound rather emotionally abusive and the most dangerous time around someone like that is when they know you are done and want out. I think I'd be nervous to be around him. Especially on Christmas. Or, coming back after a Christmas night out, because even though it was his suggestion, in his mind he may still see it as you abandoning him on Christmas. So if you go out...I'd suggest not coming back that night. Maybe staying away a few more days.

Infact I think I'd stay away with family a few days and say 'text me when you are out'. And even then, don't go back for a few extra days.

I suspect he'll give excuse after excuse at the last minute as to why he can't go but, hopefully not.

Well it’s rich that he claims unhappiness and says you’ve put him off women. What exactly has he been bringing to the table, @LostInMyLife? You say that you have abundantly supported him emotionally, physically and financially, yet there is zero reciprocation. Indeed, he does not contribute financially, and you pay all the bills and handle most of the family responsibilities. He has also withdrawn all of his affection and communication from you. What a poor role model he is for DD.

There will be a reason he has created this gulf of distance between you, and I strongly suspect he is rewriting to justify investing elsewhere. Kudos for being proactive and drawing a red line. You have taken back your power and agency, and are a wonderful example to your daughter. You two will prevail and thrive as you move forward.

He's awful OP, an emotional and manipulative abuser.
You are doing so well, please keep up this strength till he moves out.
Happy days are ahead xx

@Mountainormolehills thank you for your message, it's horrible you've been through this too, as many others have also but it does help me see there is light at the end of the tunnel. I'm not sure I will ever feel sorry for DH though, he is just selfish and i know I will never forgive what he's done Christmas week to dd.
@Pinkbonbon I don't trust him but I do know him, I also know not to trust anything he says 100% but he's done it now, messages proving it and I will be relying on them if needed. He knows its done and there is no way back. He also has no access to any of my money at all, my mum always instilled on me and my sister that you never rely on a man otherwise you become beholden to then, you earn your own money and no-one needs know how much you do or don't have. Not overly trusting but it's worked perfectly here. I am also quite busy this week with one thing another so I won't see him much (hopefully) until Sunday. And I am hoping he is gone by then. Really hoping.
@MsDogLady thank you I hope I do prevail but more than anything I hope dd does, she is my only concern. I will be ok if she is ok. He doesn't bring anything to the table and today it has shown, I plan, book and pay for everything and I did think earlier that actually dd isn't missing out on memories as such because I ensure she has them it will just be different with us rather than him there too. If anything maybe more memories as I will be paying for 2 not 3...
@Diarygirlqueen your right he is abusive, that's the word I've used a lot over the last few days, mainly to myself People think abuse is physical but the unseen abuse is worse. And harder to see for the victim and for those around, harder to recognise and harder to explain but it doesn't stop it being there, being real and hurting deep down.

As you can see from this late hour, I am struggling to sleep again...I just dont want to go to bed.

Today I didn't get up until late, I couldn't move for the first time I felt like I didn't want to leave my room altho I think its because he didn't sleep in our room so it became my sanctuary. Now he's gone to bed, I don't want to go there.

We both took dd out, had a nice Christmas eve, tbh it was the nicest we've been since all this blew up...not thinking about it though, it doesn't change anything but it will be a nice memory for dd. I do agree with ppl that he is changing the script but he can try I was there. I am here now I know the truth.

He annoyed me earlier, we were wrapping dds presents and her main one is an experience I know she will love, we discussed it, I paid and booked it so although very expensive it isn't anything that can be wrapped. He had the cheek after giving me a grand £200 towards all the presents for dd and his family (her main present cost nearly £600...its something that a once in a lifetime for dd altho when I get rid of this deadweight it may happen again) and he said "is this all dd has? What did you spend the money i sent you last week on?" I could have blew up, I didn't I simply explained that she had picked what she wanted and it wasn't cheap but she wanted it she knows she can have quality or quantity and dd always prefers quality, at least she is level headed to think that way. It reassures me that everything i already knew is 100% right, it's never enough whatever i do is never enough but he is not willing to meet me even a little bit if he wants more, just expects me to get more, i dont earn a huge amount just enough to keep 3 people but i get by, manage my money as well as i can. He mentioned it again about an hour after. I didn't say a word but i did send him a look and he went straight to bed not saying anything.
Tomorrow is going to be a weird day, no cooking for me which I usually love to do. It's the one meal of the year I genuinely enjoy and dd told me the in-laws are coming....il find somewhere else to be even on Christmas, even if I have to walk around a bloody cemetery I am not playing happy families especially when I suspect he has already discussed what is going on with us to then, I have been a fool long enough, they love him so much they can have him back....il.even sort out the Christmas wrapping and put a bow on him for his return if they want!

Yesterday I read back to my first posts and whilst only a couple of weeks ago, I feel different, still broken but less scared. I still don't know anything as such behind why he has acted like this but I feel a bit more ok with it, like it doesn't matter. His behaviour is enough, his words are enough, his actions are enough there doesn't need to be more. Obviously it would be nice if he could communicate to help us move forward as parents but that's on him I can move forward not knowing, it isn't the end of the world not to know the answers to everything.
Right going to try and go to sleep. Thank you all again your messages lit me up this morning