When do you just know its wrong?

[LostInMyLife]

So I am in a tricky situation with DH. For months he has hardly been near me physically, we have been intimate about every 6 weeks, I have lost weight, my low self esteem thought it was how I looked and I have been trying to initiate us being intimate but it never happens, he does struggle with his mental health or he has the classic "headache" everytime. The low self esteem has completely gone altho the weigh loss has given me a little more confidence in myself and I feel better in myself despite how I feel within the relationship.

Anyway over the weekend I stood near DH and he had a long text message on his phone and he turned it away from me, I think that was the final straw and everything clicked. Now this sounds silly but last night I woke up as he turned over and he actually put his arm by me and moved away, I realised he has tucked his blanket so he was actively not touching me. I shot up and woke up, and I can't speak with him, in my head there must be someone else otherwise why would he check out all day. I have been to work then took dd out, got back and had a long bath I haven't actually spoken to him today, I can't face it but moreover he hasn't spoken with me either. Now if he acted like that out of nowhere I would be checking in to see how he is...clearly he doesn't care anymore. I am heart broken, weve been together nearly 20 years and were nearly 40, weve never been like this. But now looking back I can see it's been like this for months and I am so scared. I don't care if he leaves but I care about dd, and how it will impact her. She is closer to her dad than me, it breaks my heart but I work full time and support the household, he is just around more. I don't know what to do.
Am I being stupid? I just feel lost.

I also don't want to look for evidence because frankly it's not about someone else, although that would be a deal breaker but how I feel now it enough for me. What do I do?

@Bittenonce I agree I am getting there true measure of a few people now and their true colours are showing. I have my support system and that is all I need, the rest can do them because I am doing me.

@Freeme31 I am not sure about the checking up, my sister and friends have said the same but I just don't know, he was always the really jealous one out of the 2 of us, I mean I got jealous (I am human) but I would never react he would all the time. I got accused of so many affairs over the years I just stopped talking about people, he didn't like it if I had a celebrity crush so if dd asked me (a couple of times over the years) I would just say, your dad is the only crush I have. Pathetic I know now but anything for an easy life at the time.so whilst he has history for that kind of behaviour i don't know why he would care now we're over and he has treated me so poorly and ultimately this was this choice. Or maybe the not knowing, the lack of control maybe? Either way I don't care it have nothing to hide and dd is my only priority and the next step is continuing to heal myself. Still annoying though.

You were abused for so long OP.
I really hope you will consider reporting him for coercive control.
He is such a bad man.

Your daughter is sensing his evil nature.

I appreciate money must be tight, but if you can through the school ask for advice from padtoral care about counselling for her.

A safe place for her to express herself, it could be enormously beneficial in making sense of her changes.
She sounds like a great young woman and even the offer of it could benefit her.

"Women who love too much" would be a good book for you to read and pass on to her in a year or two.

Kerp going.
You are amazing.

@Creameded thank you, i do understand where your coming from and I should report him, however at the moment I am getting through each day and grateful I am out of that situation. I won't go back into it. At the moment it is picking battles and that is not one I want to touch, it's not the hill I want to die on.

I have spoken with the school and they are there to support dd in anyway she needs.

I went out for a few hours with a friend yesterday it was lovely and definitely what I needed. Dd stayed with H, she has come back in a right mood, she did an activity with her friends this morning and sent me a message asking if I could pick her up and H was unwell and it saves him having to come out again...I did it but seriously he needs to stop being "unwell" before I sent him a box of vitamins to help fight these illnesses he keeps getting which prevents him from seeing dd. She's been sharp and gave me some attitude when I got her, despite me waiting 20 minutes for her to come out. I think she's tired so I'm going to give her some space and see how she is in a little bit and see if she will open up.

OP I have just read your thread from the beginning. You are an amazing woman and your DD is so lucky to have you

She must be feeling quite rejected by him. You’re right to keep showing her you are always there for her. You can’t interfere very much directly in their relationship but you can be the safe place to come back to.

From what I’ve heard, it seems fairly common that the ‘safe’ parent gets an increase in bad behaviour and attitude and so on. She’ll be on her best behaviour with dad while she tries to figure out the new dynamic, any frustration or confusion or hurt gets stored up for later. It’s understandable but it’s so tough on you. After years of being treated badly by H, going through the pain of the split, doing the vast majority of parenting, your reward may be DD behaving unkindly to you more often. She sounds generally a lovely kid and I think you’re doing exactly the right thing just giving her some space, not coming down hard on her.

It will take her a while - it’s a confusing time for her. Trust that you’re doing the right things, being consistent and there for her, don’t be upset if it takes a little time.

@Confusedmeanderings thank you, all i done is try to stay strong for dd and show her how I have tried to handle things whilst being there for her. It's not been easy and it still isn't easy but everyday I am trying to hold everything together. I hold trauma from my own parents splitting and my mum didn't handle it well and I was neglected a lot during that period, it's not something I speak about often but not wanting dd to have that is holding me as strong as I can be. My mum suffered and reacted by dealing with her own emotions and i was left to the side during that time to get myself through it.

@Uol2022 your message made me cry a little. I felt this exact thing and couldn't say it out loud, tbh I still can't but it makes me feel less guilty thinking it. I have had years of changing my behaviour and how I am to suit H, then he broke my heart and treated me so poorly when we split and then to get dd reacting towards me, thankfully I have plenty of practice holding myself together and I do know it is coming from a tough place within dd, I am worried it will be a long term behaviour trait due to witnessing H treating me like this but I will ensure to be there and hold some boundaries although it hasn't lasted long when she has been frustrated and when were together she calms down quite quickly so I suppose it's a good thing.

@Bittenonce wise as always, yes I am being the consistent one and always here for her, I am being open and honest with her (as much as possible/appropriate) about where I am etc. I went for food with friends last week and she was fine. So she knows I am around even if i am not physically around. I am coming back, and I am here. She is thriving quite a bit at the moment I think/hope.

Quiet couple of days here, back to work and school and getting back into our routine. Tonight has been quiet but lots of laughs over the past few days since she returned. She went to H today after school I called her to let her know I was popping out to see my sister on the way home and she said ok, then within 2 mins asked if I could collect her and take her with me, again I said of course and she was fine and explained H was busy so he didn't have time to bring her back....after he was too unwell to collect her yesterday from school due to a sore throat. No words but his commitment is dwindling. I hope he sees it before it is too late. I think he is taking dd for granted and her time but we only have a few more years until she leaves school and especially during this hard time he needs to remain consistent for dd but as always he is selfish and his needs above everyone else's, I think us splitting is showing just how much each parent did as I have been doing what I have always done, I haven't made any more or less effort I am just continuing as normal. That's my judgemental bit for now.

We've made plans for this weekend, I asked dd if she wanted to come and she did for Friday, me thinking she would see H Saturday but no she asked for a friend to stay at ours? When he is going to see her I don't know but we shall see, I suppose it's gives him time to get over his "sore throat" 😂😂 as were still quite fluid over when dd wants to go to his I suppose it is down to her when she is going. My sister has said I need to put something in place but atm I don't want to seem like i am restricting anything for dd to see her dad, am I mad thinking like that? She's had a lot going on atm that's out of her control I don't want to instigate anything that would make her feel more out of control?

Keep detailed notes of plans made, changed, unable to bring her back, the excuse used, sick, tired, cancelled arrangements.

The date of every single time so you can show a clear pattern.

It will be useful to have this when she inevitably decides she can no longer be arsed with him.

He will want to blame someone.
You can then give him and his bitch mother photo copies of all the times he messed her about.

@Creameded thank you I didn't even think about keeping details of all the ways he is letting dd down and his poor behaviour thankfully due to this thread I do have some of the dates and information this weekend I will be back tracking and logging things down.

As we have plans together this weekend I'm not sure if or when she is planning on spending time with him, other than when he takes her to her club on Saturday but we have plans with my family on the afternoon and he is at work on the evening so I am not sure when he is going to make time to see her, maybe Sunday?

Well, I'm annoyed but not saying anything. I'm half proud of myself for being the bigger person for dd but half annoyed that I haven't set a boundary. So a few years ago "we" brought dd an expensive games console. At the time h wasn't working i paid monthly for it for a year anyway dd doesn't play it much but she said yesterday "oh I'm taking the console to dad's, a new game has come out and were going to play it together" now it is dds but I brought it...anyway she's here as she has been all week, he collected it today, you know for them to play together and then messaged me asking for the password for it....it was for him to play. I didn't want to say it has to stay here to dd and frankly it took me by surprise but it has annoyed me. I don't want her to see me making problems but at the same time I brought it, it nearly killed me scrimping and saving to pay it off and he is playing with it...under the presence of playing a game with dd. So my plan is to give it a couple of weeks and ask for it to come back here, if he wants to play it his precious mother can buy him one or he can become and adult and work some hours and buy one or even better than that offer some money for his daughter. That is dds and I brought it, is it petty I am feeling like this? Its ok to say if I am i just need an honest opinion because my brain is driving me mad.

Then....he came into my home today, i didn't know until I got back as my Internet was playing up and I couldn't get the playback to work and must have taken the dog out and showered the dog and left the bathroom in a state. The sooner I get this tenancy sorted the sooner the locks can be changed and I will be setting some ground rules. I also think he maybe coming into my home 10-15mins before dd leaves in a morning, for what reason I have no idea but it is boggling my mind and driving me mad, again I think it is the control aspect of him and him not having dd keeps the control again because I am not "off" doing whatever he is doing when in reality all he is doing is pushing dd away and I am not interested in going "off" and doing anything all I want to do is be left alone and to heal.

Yikes! When can you get the tenancy sorted and change the locks? Can you break a key in the lock and get it “repaired” and not give him bis copy?

Your tenancy will be fine @LostInMyLife you work full time and pay the rent, it’s only an issue if you were having your rent paid, I would change the locks now there’s no problem with that at all x

I agree with pp that you should change the locks. If you lost your key presumably you'd be ok to get it changed? If your DD has a key though you'll need to make it very clear that she is not to give one/ get one copied for her Dad.
It is hard and of course you don't want to upset your DD but I do think setting some ground rules are important.

Ie, this is our home, Dad doesn't live here anymore^ and so as it is no longer his^ home he has no need or right to be here when I'm not here. Therefore he doesn't need a key. Explain in the same way that you wouldn't dream of going to his flat when he wasn't there and therefore don't need a key.

He has horribly manipulated your daughter to get his hands on the console but now it's out of the house all you can do is ask your DD to bring it back, and of course she can say no. But I would use this as an opportunity to lay some ground rules down around it, especially if there anything else he might try and do this with. I think you absolutely should tell her it stays with you at your house (so it's insured??) but she can take it over when she goes to visit. If she / her Dad are not happy about that then he can buy her one to keep at his house. If she says he says he can't afford it you've got a good reason to explain how hard you - not him - worked to pay for that one.

Document this and any time you suspect he's in your house when you're not there. Can you afford a cheap nanny cam to record in your home while you're out so that you can gather evidence? It sounds obvious, but have you ever actually said to him he's not to come into the house when you're not there, and have you asked for his/ has he left his key? If you haven't spelled it out it might be worth doing so that you're able to challenge him and hold your boundary about this.

You mentioned you dd was sullen / upset when she last came back from his. I'd imagine the reality of the new situation is really beginning to set in, and after the initial shock she is adjusting to seeing her Dad being pretty shit towards her - although she may not be ready to recognise how poorly he's treating her. I did also wonder if she'd got wind that he might be seeing someone else and was upset about this but also felt guilty about knowing and didn't feel she could mention it to you? Either way- do keep documenting everything you can about what he's doing.

I'm going through this right now myself, only a few weeks in though.

Your story seems pretty much identical to mine.

I feel lost and trying to navigate it all on top of starting a new job.

You give me hope!

Not petty at all.
YOU paid for that console.
He's z financial abusive cheeky fxxker.

"Lose" those keys today and get news ones.
Tell the landlord by the by.

Turn up at his to collect it in two weekx.

Learn to play the fxcking thing and play with DD if necessary.
No way would I allow that to leave the house.

Well he’s now taken a few steps down from just being lazy and useless. I’m afraid it’s time to be tough bitch and take back the control; Yes, sure it would be nice to let a bit more dust settle first but this all needs to be stopped now.
Daughter can fetch the console back.
Yes you can and should just change the locks - now.
Set out the schedule for when he can see her and who does the collections / drop offs.

Get the CMS agreed - however little it is, it’s yours. So that you can support your daughter. Right now you’re subsidising him - again.
And no, it’s not going to feel comfortable, because you’re a fundamentally decent person. But he is showing that he isn’t. So don’t let either him (or you) convince you that you’re being unfair or unreasonable, I fear your head will become scrambled egg unless and until you’ve got the ground rules properly sorted.

It's not fair on either you or your daughter to not have an agreed schedule. The only person this is conveniencing is him. Once you've agreed a schedule, your DD can always see him more if he's willing to- it doesn't prohibit that, it just means there's a minimum level he's agreed to. It will make it much easier to police boundaries and evidence when he's shirking his responsibilities.
And @Bittenonce is absolutely right - by not claiming maintenance you are continuing to subsidise him.
Stand firm, you're doing brilliantly.

Thank you all for your messages.

I will be having a conversation with H first regarding how we move forward, I have asked him to meet when dd is at her club on Sunday, he has replied the answer rather than making plans. I will push for him to meet as I want to ask for my house keys in person (less chance they get copied and dd has a set already) I plan on doing everything by the book with everything, it's been too long of a journey to fall now. I have asked for more notice regarding when dd is staying at his and told him I don't know where I am and have wasted meals because I didn't know. Whilst I know he can't give me set days every week he can do a weekly one or even across the month and we plan days, if dd doesn't want to go or if she wants to go more then that's fine but I have an idea. Again the control, and I will ensure it is severed and I gain back control of my own life.

A conversation about money will also be happening when we speak, he needs to be contributing to dd, your all right whilst I can afford everything she needs and it will be a small amount, it is her money it's not mine.

The console, that will be dealt with in the next 2 weeks, that's the deadline I gave myself so I will keep that on the back of my mind.

He is just horrible, and I am really trying to hold it together and be flexible for dd but i need to continue to maintain my boundaries for myself and dd.

Thank you all again! Xxx

@whatsnext1 thank you for your message, it's am sorry your going through this. It is not a situation I would wish on anyone. It does get better and easier. Whilst atm the drama keeps coming, compared to 3 months ago I feel lighter and able to deal with it. There were points were I am was barely holding myself together but now I am getting there bit by bit. Always here if you need a chat, peep talk or a rant just send me a private message!

You are goddamn amazing OP.

Thank you @Creameded I wouldn't say amazing, more trying to stay as level headed as possible. I took dd out tonight (planned a week ago) got in at half 10 and she asked me to take her to her dad's...honestly no words. Shamelessly I did take her but she is aware I was not happy about it, I didn't say anything but the tension was there. This will be a conversation I will be having with dd tomorrow upon her return regarding what is and is not acceptable. I think (or I am trying to rationalise) that I haven't actually spoken with her about what is and is not acceptable around things like this, tbh I didn't think i would need to but now it has happened I will be addressing it with dd and H when I see him on Sunday.
I am not sure if she is knowingly copying his behaviour towards me but I need to advise both of them what is and is not acceptable and what boundaries I will be placing because quite frankly between the both of them, if this continues I will suffer quite bad and it scares me.

I got home and made a plan with my sister on the phone and now I feel like I know how to maintain my control and rein it in again with both dd and H.

But I do have to say, I really hate him.

OP, you are correct.
You do not swap an awful husband and allow your daughter to morph into him.

You will do her no favour if you do.
Do not feel that to keep her you need to allow yourself to be disrespected.

Far better for your daughter that you allow her huff and puff.

Model to her a strong woman, not one whom will be bullied by ANYONE.

That will be your greatest gift to her.
Spell out exactly what you expect of her.

I mean this very kindly but you need to manage what are your responsibilities and not HIS.

Your responsibilities are to yourself and her, to show her you love her, but that you have self respect and that even though you do love her, your self respect for yourself is not something you will EVER compromise.

Your ex is no longer your responsibility and his relationship with your daughter is his alone.
You need to tell her that you will not be used and abused by her or him.
He is responsible for his relationship with her, not you.

Do not get involved with it.
Children gain security from boundaries and strength, knowing who and what they can rely on.

You being firm and strong will ultimately give her security.
If she thinks she can treat you poorly, she will ultimately feel less secure.

Consideration and self respect is what children learn from their parents, in how they see us behave and conduct ourselves.

She has a shit father, she desperately needs to see that while you love her to bits, you are not someone to be fxxked about with.

THAT will help her feel centred in all of this.

I hope you understand that when things are changing and uncertain, it is knowing that you are firm, resolute and consistent, will steady things for her.

I have daughters, I know they can push buttons.

Be very very calm in your demeanor, quiet in your tone of voice, completely unemotional, and hold eye contact relentlessly.......

Her father is nothing to you now.
He has committed multiple crimes against you over the years.
You may rethink police involvement in the future.
Remember that.
Coercive control is a crime.
You could really mess with his life if you choose to.
He is a really bad man.

@Creameded thank you for the message. Everything you have said is what I spoke with with my sister yesterday and reading your message really has helped me.

I plan on talking with dd when she returns later and discuss yesterday along with some of the events of this week and discuss what is and isn't acceptable and what I expect going forward.

I didn't finally get rid of him to have a mini version here instead and that is what I will be telling her. I didn't discuss it last night as I knew i would be emotional and I didn't want to discuss it then, I feel it doesn't get heard when your emotional or at least i don't. The difference between H and dd is, H doesn't give a crap about anyone else and I can say what I want but it won't change anything, I know when I talk to dd she will respect what i say and listen, she always does. I suppose she takes the micky like her dad but listens and respects people when they talk to her, and I hope that's like me because it certainly isn't like him.

I am also done facilitating their relationship, I will take her when I am able to but not every time, and a schedule will be drawn up going forward.