"Do they ever come back? Devastated. Following on. The endless winter continues.

[Pleasenotme]

Ok, so this is thread number three. I can hardly believe it, in fact I don't want to believe it. I don't want to be in this place, so bloody broken and - at times - on my knees with despair. This is the link to my previous rantings:
Do they ever come back? Devastated. Following on. Endless winter. | Mumsnet

I know you are heartbroken, I said on my last post that you are too hard on yourself and I just wanted you to know that cheaters make a choice - based on whatever is in their head they somehow justify it in their head. There doesn’t have to be anything wrong in a marriage for this to happen. I can only imagine your thoughts wondering what you did wrong and why he left. YOU did nothing wrong dear OP, he got some flirts and he acted on them. The reason he started the affair and left is on him so please don’t look at yourself and feel in anyway responsible!

He told your eldest dd you are gaslighting him because he has to cordone his actions and guilt to be the good guy so he can get everyone including himself to believe he is a victim in all this. He will rewrite history to make himself look good and justify his actions and you need to realise that it’s not about whether you had messy cupboards or because of anything about you it’s all on him and his decision to cheat.

I would send one last message to H. on the lines of....

What a repulsive failure of a little man you have become. How dare you involve your DD in your sordid extra marital affair.
You have now singlehandedly destroyed the loving memory she had of you.
She is not your messenger.
She is to be protected from your lying a cheating.

ps. Clearly you don't even know what gaslighting means ?

Really, I didn't know that thanks.

Yes this!!

You can never go back to how it was before because he fucked it all up, that woman has got the best of both worlds at the moment, her husband unaware looking after the ferals whilst she is being wined and dined. They are in fantasy land, not giving a shit who they have to destroy to stay there but when that bubble pops he will most probably try to scuttle back.

You are heartbroken, bewildered and scared this alien reality you are living is not one you ever believed you would ever be but if he did come back it wouldn’t be because he had seen the light it would be that the bubble burst with the other woman and it’s easier for him to return than to divorce without a fancy piece holding his hand.

You think you want him back and for everything to go back as it was but it never will, you will be on edge in case he strays again, looking for signs as he has destroyed the love and trust you had in him. You will try to be the best version of yourself, exhausting yourself feeling as mentally worn down as you do now and he could still stray because it’s not you it’s him with the wandering mickey!

You have to realise you are a diamond and you can survive and will get through this x

This!
The problem is OP you are in the Now, the present and I have been where you are.
Coming up to my 3rd anniversary of D Day. After 37 years together.
He honestly thought ( at the time) she was his one true love. She was after husband no 4 and to be financially looked after. Only he couldn't see that through the limerance and love goggles.

I can now tell you how it panned out for my Ex and the AP.

He moved in with her. He was extremely cruel to me and nasty. He changed the narrative to save face.
He then set up a bar business with mostly his funds but she put in a bit but then made him change her from shareholder to joint director.
My ex MIL got in touch with me over a year ago and couldn't help telling me how unhappy he was, how he was going to leave her, how she did no work in the business etc etc.
However, he bought himself a new house end 23 but did not involve her.
He didnt move out though and she realised that she wasn't going to get half his house and needed the business to get some accounts done so she could get paid out.
His mother saw through all of it but he, being the coward he still is, just stayed. The exciting sex life had been gone for some time I know. She barely tolerated him too.
Then a few weeks back she ended it and kicked him out. Making it clear that he 'wasn't meeting her needs' especially financially. She thought we were a lot wealthier than we were and many said that at the time.

And I always thought I would indulge in a bit of 'shadenfreude' when the inevitable happened but I actually just feel sad.

Sad that our adult kids had to witness the destruction of their family home, the pain and emotional collapse it had on myself (so I wasn't the strong mother for over they knew for about 18 months), I'm sad for the loss of my financial security that we'd built up through 36 years of hard graft and self sacrifice and we'd just got to a place of financial comfort.

But I have no sadness for no longer being his life partner / wife as I saw the man he really was ( and I'd had glimpses over the years as he'd cheated early on and was a terrible flirt ) .
Some men get caught up in a sexual fantasy world and it clouds their judgement and the cruelty they are able to dish out to their life partners is shocking.

I'm ok now. And he's been playing victim recently with friends and family but he can't do that with me as I will never forgive him.
We had to have co tact recently due to a very sad family event and I just found him irritating most of the time. No love or pangs for the past at all.

When you are able, please read Chump Lady book or her blog.
Her perspective helped me enormously and therapy too.
Leave a Cheater, Gain a Life: The Chump Lady's Survival Guide amzn.eu/d/gmvv3tQ

What he is doing and how he is behaving is so common and as old as time.

This is not a female-bashing post by any means. But how any mother could leave her children for what seems night after night, and afternoons, to basically go and dine and have sex with a married man who had devastated his wife, probably kissing her own husband on the way out, just baffles me.
This woman, whoever she is, must have nerves of steel, especially now she knows OP knows.
She is probably planning Christmas, carrying on as if nothing is happening, knowing of the devastation she is also about to gift to her own family as a festive surprise.
Mind-boggling. I hope 2025 sees them both exist unhappily ever after. They deserve it.

She is probably planning Christmas, carrying on as if nothing is happening, knowing of the devastation she is also about to gift to her own family as a festive surprise.

I can't help but wonder if the OW is even going to leave her own DH, surely after 2 months she'd have made a decision to do so, maybe she just likes the idea of the chase and being wined and dined.

She's probably been waiting to see if OP or someone else will tell her DH what she's been up to and can't believe her luck in no one having done so, so far.

OW don’t care.
My husband’s OW had the audacity to say to a colleague of hers and my Ex H “ All’s fair in love and war”

A complete bitch.
Her excuse?
That her husband had cheated on her, and she survived- so I’d be ok , too.

Except the real losers were my son and her sons.

Arsehole of a woman .( She played Ex like a fish)

Alone at Christmas? I'd say he made his bed and he can lie in it!

If you want to get him a Christmas present search on line for an old 45 single of this. It's a has-been, just like him.

@oakleaffy the mask slips sooner or later and who they really are with their back to the wall and the bullshit they tell themselves to justify it is never pretty. My husband’s AP shot herself in the foot repeatedly at the end of the affair as she got more desperate.
As his mask of the lies he’d told her fell off and showed he was just a cheat, not a saviour promising a very comfortable loved-up future, hers fell off as trying to be the patient understanding angel. She’d said all sorts of lovely stuff about understanding how hard it must be for him and understanding about protecting our children (can you fecking believe the woman helping my husband potentially devastate our family said that??) but it was bollocks. She then said really callous stuff along the lines of ‘feck your kids, they’re going to get upset sooner or later anyway so why not just upset them now?’ once she started to see that her investment wasn’t going to (literally) pay off and her patience wore out.
Ugly but true motives on both sides became clear and showed them the truth about what they really wanted from each other. The affair was about her getting a wealthy father for future children before she hit 40 and him getting his damaged ego ( too outing to say why but nothing to do with me or our marriage) inflated and repaired by adoring women nearly twenty years his junior.
The last thing most affairs are about is love, neither party usually acts in anyone’s interests but their own. Love it really ain’t.

Ow may have no intention of leaving her husband. She may just be enjoying the ‘excitement’ of an affair. Cold harsh reality of a broken home for her kids and potentially 50/50 - could even be worrying her h would be primary carer he’s certainly been one caring for them while she’s sneaked off.
He’s currently a bloke in his 50s living with his sister. He can splash cash on meals etc but that’s it. No fool like an old fool.
I really would take a firm line. No communication by phone. He needs to redirect his post. Be clear he’s not to use your young adult dc as piggy in middle.
My hunch is he’ll come crawling back next year and by that point you’ll be in a place where you won’t entertain it.

"how any mother could leave her children for what seems night after night, and afternoons, to basically go and dine and have sex with a married man who had devastated his wife, probably kissing her own husband on the way out, just baffles me."

Yep. It's shocking the lengths some women will go to just for their own selfish desires. They are not cut out to be mothers. My friend from Denmark, her mother would have (loud) sex at all hours of the day while my friend and her siblings were in the rooms beside hers. Also just been reading about the case of Susan Smith in the US. She has just been denied parole (thankfully) after 30 years inside for drowning her two kids in the car; her motivation for her crime? .."to facilitate a relationship with a local wealthy man named Tom Findlay. Prior to the murders, he sent her a letter ending their relationship and expressing that he did not want children." And in prison she has had sex with two prison guards.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Smith

"Ow may have no intention of leaving her husband. She may just be enjoying the ‘excitement’ of an affair. Cold harsh reality of a broken home for her kids and potentially 50/50 - could even be worrying her h would be primary carer he’s certainly been one caring for them while she’s sneaked off."

I pretty much agree, @Cakeandusername

But I'm not so sure that there's any 'fear' involved. Just like the majority of cheating men, she may want to keep her 'home comforts' whilst still having her bit on the side. I think the 'trope' that women who cheat do so because they fall madly in love with their AF and throw caution to the wind is more and more becoming a myth. I think more and more women, especially those who are financially 'secure' in their own right, may cheat for the thrill of it or for the wining and dining that a 'well off' man can provide.

AF = AP

OP, I just wanted to add my voice to the many who are here rooting for you, supporting you, (re)living your pain. I think @Plastictrees and @Zebracat have said some hugely valuable things which are actually helping me now, 5 years on from the day my exH of 27 years announced he wanted a divorce, was having an affair, bla bla bla. So yes, you're in a club you wouldn't have wished to join, but it's not such a bad one in the end. Pretty good actually.
Please take good care, and remember how many people are here for you x

I hope you’re ok op?

I can add little to what has already been well said by many...he's turned into a despicable little man of low if any integrity. Please straighten your crown and tell him to take a hike re Christmas dinner.

On a practical level - please get some good quality marine collagen into you which will help stop hair loss, harden your nails, plump up your appearance and help with any aching joints.

I was in the same boat as you with a cheating husband who's bunny boiler OW wouldn't stop harranging and attacking me either directly or indirectly through him. I lost half the thicken of my long until then lustrous hair and went white withing a few months. It was the shock the affair caused to the system...the body always pays the price sadly.

My motto became ' fake it until I make it' - it was the only way to cope. I took myself in hand, got a good hair cut, had my sparse brows done, grew my nails and invested in some new makeup and clothing. Frivolous and shallow maybe but it helped by distracting and focusing my attention elsewhere. I also pushed myself to go out, sometimes even alone but made sure the adult kids saw me dressed up- knowing it may get back to their dad (which it did). Petty really but I wouldn't give the tosser the satisfaction.

Interest in the OW will fade, particularly when life with OW and her challenging offspring becomes a reality.

I hope by then @Pleasenotme you will see him for what he has become and have the strength to realise it was a trauma bond and the shock of affair you were suffering from. He doesn't deserve your love and nobody that really loves someone would treat them as appallingly as he has you.

Sending love and strength to you OP. You have been much in my thoughts since reading your posts as they were certainly triggering and I feel so sad you are now going through the same. X

Op can you consider little steps for self care? Things for you. Go get your nails done? Or meet a friend for a coffee, go for a walk or a massage. All firsts are hard. My ex had an emotional affair and we split, he moved on quickly. I felt in shock for months but slowly pulled myself together. I couldn’t speak about it out loud and chose really carefully who I spoke to. But life goes on and it gets better. I’m divorced and free and happier than I was with him! You can do this. Therapy was a game changer for me. Sending a hug!

Dear OP, I have been following your threads from the beginning and they have been a lifeline for me as I am also going through a painful separation. Different circumstances but I am in a position I didn’t ask for or deserve so a lot of the things you mention resonate with me.

I wanted to share some practical things that are giving me some little boosts.

Rosemary and peppermint oil for my hair (available at boots) - this has started to help with the hair loss and makes my hair feel very soft too.

A simple morning and evening skincare routine using the Cerave range. It’s now a ritual for me that gives my day a bit of structure.

The Ordinary caffeine under eye gel which helps to treat the dark bags under my eyes from the daily sobbing.

As mentioned by another poster, marine collagen - I take some tablets from Holland and Barratt - I think I can see and feel a difference.

A box of home hair colour to cover my grey/
white roots. Sadly grey and white is very aging on me and makes me look washed out.

Oh and ALL the vitamins! Vitamin D spray, zinc, magnesium and Floradix and probiotics.

Eyebrow pen to fill in the gaps and cover the white hairs 🤦🏻‍♀️ I think the eyebrows really provide such a structure to your face and can give an instant boost to your appearance by doing this if they need a bit of help.

Listing it all out seems a bit superficial but I hope it’s a helpful list and to let you know that there are so many of us going through heartache and trying to cope as best we can each day. There’s no way to rush this and we heal in different ways and at different paces.

I read your posts and wish I knew you in real life because I think there’s clearly a powerhouse of a woman in there. Perhaps you are hibernating during this storm until it passes but hopefully the wise words from others and practical tips will carry you over til Spring arrives. Then we’ll all emerge stronger and glowing from all that love that has helped get us through this.

Agree with all of this.
OW is just addicted to the chase. Maybe that's all she likes from it.

This is something I’m thinking too. Younger woman falls for older, self-assured, successful and wealthy - in her eyes - man who livens up her life of the slog of juggling work with two young children.

They dream lovely thoughts together of setting up their new, big, comfortable house (no mortgage worries for her, there’ll be lots of money from the sale of his house), then she jumps ship from unsuspecting husband.

Except the elephant in the room. He has an irritant old wife - who he has a terrible life with no sex with (they anlways say that) and he deserves more. And she’s being stubborn and not accepting it’s over, and is always on the phone in tears and begging him to come back.

Meanwhile he’s lodging at his sister’s, not really a suitable place to take his new soulmate for afternoon delight. So it’s yet another expensive hotel visit.

Meanwhile, OW’s beginning to get fractious at the lack of progress, and where’s that new love nest he’d promised? So not always smiley and welcoming in quite the same way as she was. Plus she’s still got her small children to deal with - who will become part of the new set up, not just her. So life is beginning to creak in dreamland. At some point he’ll realise he’s about to wind his life back 20 years to living with small children, which is a lot more challenging in your 50s.

He’s shown his true face here. He is a cold, deceiving and uncaring man, willing to throw away a long marriage for a stupid dream. He won’t wake up and morph back into that man. This is him.

I read on another thread by @Gingerloaf who’s husband also has a wandering mickey that people affair down, that the other women/men are not a patch on their w/h they just have looser morals. The trouble is by the time they realise this it’s often too late, the damage has been so severe to abandoned spouse and children there is no going back. The cold stranger who walks away without a care for their spouse and family until reality kicks in has shattered trust and for many they don’t ever feel he or she is their safe place, security in their love anymore. It causes too much insecurity and for most people they can’t live like that. The despair they felt when their loved one walks out follows them back if they do take the cheater back.

What @Pleasenotme is experiencing is grief for the life she had, the man she thought she had and the total trust she had in the marriage. He could come back but it will never be the same for her as he has broke far more than her trust.

The OW sounds highly manipulative and skilled at getting her own way so I wouldn't be surprised if she's told her husband some cock and bull story about supporting OPs husband, spinning just enough truth into a lie in order to be able to conduct an affair under her DHs nose. Doesn't sound like they're behind particularly discreet if they're out wining and dining in public regularly, and her DH is at home with the kids.

And of course she knows OP and OPs kids know, and hasn't taken any action. I think OP has been very smart letting her know she knows, but it doesn't seem to have put the willies up her which would suggest to me she's not scared of her husband finding out.

So unless OP has proof it's a sexual relationship I think OW would probably be able to talk her way out of it.

I also wouldn't assume she's planning to leave her husband, and if she is I wouldn't assume she's planning to take the kids to live with her and OPs DH. Perfectly possible she'd leave them with her DH.