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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

"Do they ever come back? Devastated. Following on. The endless winter continues.

310 replies

Pleasenotme · 24/11/2024 23:18

Ok, so this is thread number three. I can hardly believe it, in fact I don't want to believe it. I don't want to be in this place, so bloody broken and - at times - on my knees with despair. This is the link to my previous rantings:
Do they ever come back? Devastated. Following on. Endless winter. | Mumsnet

Do they ever come back? Devastated. Following on. Endless winter. | Mumsnet

*Do they ever come back? Devastated. * *1000 replies* *Pleasenotme · 17/09/2024 16:25* Long time lurker, occasional poster, nc'd for this....

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5170500-do-they-ever-come-back-devastated-following-on-endless-winter?page=1

OP posts:
Tealeavesinthecup · 27/11/2024 08:25

Scarbsbeach · 27/11/2024 07:13

This is something I’m thinking too. Younger woman falls for older, self-assured, successful and wealthy - in her eyes - man who livens up her life of the slog of juggling work with two young children.

They dream lovely thoughts together of setting up their new, big, comfortable house (no mortgage worries for her, there’ll be lots of money from the sale of his house), then she jumps ship from unsuspecting husband.

Except the elephant in the room. He has an irritant old wife - who he has a terrible life with no sex with (they anlways say that) and he deserves more. And she’s being stubborn and not accepting it’s over, and is always on the phone in tears and begging him to come back.

Meanwhile he’s lodging at his sister’s, not really a suitable place to take his new soulmate for afternoon delight. So it’s yet another expensive hotel visit.

Meanwhile, OW’s beginning to get fractious at the lack of progress, and where’s that new love nest he’d promised? So not always smiley and welcoming in quite the same way as she was. Plus she’s still got her small children to deal with - who will become part of the new set up, not just her. So life is beginning to creak in dreamland. At some point he’ll realise he’s about to wind his life back 20 years to living with small children, which is a lot more challenging in your 50s.

He’s shown his true face here. He is a cold, deceiving and uncaring man, willing to throw away a long marriage for a stupid dream. He won’t wake up and morph back into that man. This is him.

Spot on. Unless of course OW plans to leave her children so they can both sail into the sunset without any encumbrances. That won’t end well either.
I’ve been through this and the way the erring couple delude themselves is just extraordinary. It’s like they both totally take leave of their senses. It’s not going to end well for anybody. OP will eventually pick up the pieces of her life and maybe find someone who deserves her. I’llbet anything her husband is goi g to wake up and find he’s in a nightmare, too late.

Tealeavesinthecup · 27/11/2024 08:27

NorthoftheRainbow · 27/11/2024 08:21

The OW sounds highly manipulative and skilled at getting her own way so I wouldn't be surprised if she's told her husband some cock and bull story about supporting OPs husband, spinning just enough truth into a lie in order to be able to conduct an affair under her DHs nose. Doesn't sound like they're behind particularly discreet if they're out wining and dining in public regularly, and her DH is at home with the kids.

And of course she knows OP and OPs kids know, and hasn't taken any action. I think OP has been very smart letting her know she knows, but it doesn't seem to have put the willies up her which would suggest to me she's not scared of her husband finding out.

So unless OP has proof it's a sexual relationship I think OW would probably be able to talk her way out of it.

I also wouldn't assume she's planning to leave her husband, and if she is I wouldn't assume she's planning to take the kids to live with her and OPs DH. Perfectly possible she'd leave them with her DH.

Just cross posted I think!

Seymour5 · 27/11/2024 08:57

I hope you’re OK @Pleasenotme.

Thewookiemustgo · 27/11/2024 10:08

There are many possibilities about what OW’s situation is, or whether or not her husband knows, but the problem with speculating is that it’s just that: speculation.
It changes nothing for @Pleasenotme and I think the focus belongs on her and what she can do to get through each day at present. @Pleasenotme we can’t control other people’s behaviour and nor should we. They are grown adults who will have to live with the consequences of their choices, whatever they choose to do. Speculating raises or dashes hope in a heartbeat and is based on conjecture, therefore unreliable and unhelpful to you.
I think the best way to cope is to protect yourself and your mental health and deal with each day as it comes presently.
My wonderful mum used to say that her Grandma’s favourite saying was “Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.” She was right. You have more than enough to deal with on any given day at the moment. Whilst obviously protecting yourself mentally and legally to help your future, deal with the present, the content of each day.
The future of your husband and OW will be what it will be and the only future you can direct and control is your own. Concentrate your energy there now, you call the shots, not them. One day at a time. Sending love and strength.

SpryCat · 27/11/2024 11:51

@Pleasenotme what stands out to me from your posts is no matter how broken you are feeling you wouldn’t inflict that hurt on anyone else. You don’t want to alert the ow’s husband as it’s not in your nature! That says so much about your character and strength, you are a great person a good woman ❤️ you take it one day at a time.

Doggielove · 27/11/2024 11:55

Great post. We have no idea of what the ow is thinking and feeling or her marital set up…she could have an open marriage or have fessed up already we don’t know. Similarly we know nothing about OW husband and their set up. Also we don’t know what OPs husband has told her about his set up!! Agree it’s all speculation.

best piece of advice given above is to just concentrate on you OP..nobody can ask or should ask you to give up hope in your H sooner than you want to or can, if at all. it’s your unique journey and your life. The advice people are giving you on action, are about their experience and of life

as always sending much love, your week sounded brutal work wise..hope you get through the meetings 🥰

waterlls · 27/11/2024 12:35

Dontaskanymore · 26/11/2024 23:27

Dear OP, I have been following your threads from the beginning and they have been a lifeline for me as I am also going through a painful separation. Different circumstances but I am in a position I didn’t ask for or deserve so a lot of the things you mention resonate with me.

I wanted to share some practical things that are giving me some little boosts.

Rosemary and peppermint oil for my hair (available at boots) - this has started to help with the hair loss and makes my hair feel very soft too.

A simple morning and evening skincare routine using the Cerave range. It’s now a ritual for me that gives my day a bit of structure.

The Ordinary caffeine under eye gel which helps to treat the dark bags under my eyes from the daily sobbing.

As mentioned by another poster, marine collagen - I take some tablets from Holland and Barratt - I think I can see and feel a difference.

A box of home hair colour to cover my grey/
white roots. Sadly grey and white is very aging on me and makes me look washed out.

Oh and ALL the vitamins! Vitamin D spray, zinc, magnesium and Floradix and probiotics.

Eyebrow pen to fill in the gaps and cover the white hairs 🤦🏻‍♀️ I think the eyebrows really provide such a structure to your face and can give an instant boost to your appearance by doing this if they need a bit of help.

Listing it all out seems a bit superficial but I hope it’s a helpful list and to let you know that there are so many of us going through heartache and trying to cope as best we can each day. There’s no way to rush this and we heal in different ways and at different paces.

I read your posts and wish I knew you in real life because I think there’s clearly a powerhouse of a woman in there. Perhaps you are hibernating during this storm until it passes but hopefully the wise words from others and practical tips will carry you over til Spring arrives. Then we’ll all emerge stronger and glowing from all that love that has helped get us through this.

Collagen powder (bovine) has stopped my hair breaking and made big difference in the strength of my nails.

Epaderm has been good for dry skin.

I use henna as a hair dye, you can get dark blonde and brown as well as red shades. It makes my hair softer than hairdressers or box dye.

Have you heard of the book Wintering by Katherine May? It's about difficult times and the rest and reset of wintering

https://www.worldofbooks.com/en-gb/products/wintering-book-katherine-may-9781846045998?price=10.79

Cakeandusername · 27/11/2024 12:37

I also suspect op was sorter and doer in relationship. He’s done nothing except move in with sister. Not initiated divorce, not spoken to adult dc re their housing, I’d hazard a guess he’s not even thought about Christmas and checked with children what plans are. Just assumed good old op will do everything. He hasn’t even managed to arrange a post redirection.

Cakeandusername · 27/11/2024 12:41

If your children ask for gift ideas i’d encourage a nice voucher for a local beautician. There’s an older lady near me that advertises quiet 1-1 experience for people who dislike busy salons. I’ve started having my brows done, nails, facial plus hair regularly dyed. It honestly makes a massive difference to how I feel. I’m similar age to op not a person who typically had beauty treatments and rarely wears makeup. If you are embarrassed I’d just say you have been quite ill.

TheShellBeach · 27/11/2024 15:06

Just assumed good old OP will do everything.
He hasn’t even managed to arrange a post redirection.

Or the Estate Agents that @Pleasenotme didn't even want.

I'm glad she's told him that she won't do any of the donkey work of getting the house sold. At least, I thought that was how it had been left.

wrongthinker · 27/11/2024 23:07

Candy24 · 25/11/2024 01:58

Just tell your daughter that you love her but you won't receive messages from dad from her. It isn't her place and you love her. Everytime she tries go sorry darling but again it isn't your job. How are you?

Im so sorry he is using her to attack you

Yes,, this. Don't involve her from your side. You probably need someone to confide in, but it shouldn't be your DC.

Comtesse · 27/11/2024 23:35

He’s being a self justifying little scrote involving your daughter like that. What a berk.

SurelyNotAnother · 28/11/2024 06:59

Sending hugs to you OP. xx

Gettingbysomehow · 28/11/2024 07:24

I know what I would do. Id be right round to OWs husband raising hell. I cant believe he doesnt know.

FrancisQuoynt · 28/11/2024 09:17

Gettingbysomehow · 28/11/2024 07:24

I know what I would do. Id be right round to OWs husband raising hell. I cant believe he doesnt know.

I think that might force the OW and the OP's husband together. Or break them. Where would they live if the husband threw out his cheating wife? It might be the catalyst for it all ending. But I fear the OP would allow this man to come back and that would be a backwards step because he can't ever be trusted again.

BigAnne · 28/11/2024 09:25

Pleasenotme · 25/11/2024 00:39

Thank you all. I'm going to try and sleep now or I won't be able to function at work tomorrow. I'm physically shaking having had that message from my DD so need to try and get a grip of my heart rate and breathing, and I'm so cold which is shock I think, so I need to warm up too in bed. God bless you all, thank you for the loveliness you have sent my way x

Hopefully 2025 will be a turning point for you. Please, please don't let him come for Christmas dinner.

SpryCat · 28/11/2024 10:51

@Pleasenotme Your H has started DARVO, he is rewriting history to make himself the victim.

DARVO stands for Deny, Attack, and Reverse Victim and Offender. The 'Deny' part is fairly obvious, the person accused of the wrongdoing, possibly abusive behaviour of some description, simply denies that is the case and can use gaslighting to throw doubt on the other's, possibly their partner's lived experience.

He is twisting reality to gain sympathy with your eldest dd, trying to get her involved and make out he is the victim. The man who you loved and trusted is long gone OP and he wants to get people to feel sorry for him so he can hold his head up high and be the poor honourable man who's wife emotionally abused him (or whatever claptrap he comes out with) until he couldn’t take it anymore instead of the reality of being a man with a wandering micky who has walked out on his wife.

You know the truth so don’t allow his gaslighting to break you further, your adult children love both of you so you carry on telling them not to get sucked into taking sides. The man is no longer the one you knew and has evolved into someone you wouldn’t wish your worst enemy on.

please take care x

SpryCat · 28/11/2024 14:17

DARVO

A manipulate tactic often used by narcissistic people when they are confronted about their actions.

Deny
When the abuser denies their harmful behavior or downplay/minimize its severity.
Intent is to reject responsibility & refuse acknowledgment of any wrongdoing.
Attack
After denial, the abuser goes on the offensive.
They attack the victim's credibility, motivations, or character by making counter-accusations or claiming that the victim is exaggerating or lying.
Intent is to preserve their self-image & divert attention from them while discrediting & undermining the victim.
Reverse victim & Offender
When the abuser twists the narrative by reversing the roles to portray themselves as the victim & the victim as the abuser.
Intent is to regain control, manipulate emotions, shift blame, & garner sympathy from others.

LaBarruci · 29/11/2024 17:58

OP, I was in your situation many years back: when I received his contemptuous, short message, I sank to the floor with my heart cut out and spent the next couple of years destroyed. Literally a complete shell, barely able to think coherently at all. No amount of vague advice about "keep yourself busy" or makeovers or what have you could have compensated for the simple fact that I just wanted him back. No matter what he had done, no matter what he had said, I wanted him back. Even so, I might have struggled through and got back to something resembling normal if I had not found myself pregnant shortly after his letter and disappearance (we had no children) and with no choice but to terminate. There were no pills in those days, the abortion process was an isolated and laborious procedure provided, if you had the cash, by the BPAS (thankfully not the NHS, the way people's attitudes were at the time).

It was, of course, trauma piled on more trauma, and my mind and body were simply not able to process what had happened. I slipped in a delusional state and started having full-blown hallucinations about the "real" meaning of his letter, "messages" from songs I was listening to at the time, the Virgin Mary, all kinds of stuff, and set off on several wild goose chases across the country, harassing his parents, until a final confrontation got me sort of back to my senses, at least as far as he was concerned. I barely missed being sectioned and ending up permanently mad, and, while I did eventually attend the local psychiatric hospital as an outpatient, received therapy and antidepressants, and was grateful of course, none of it did much to relieve the shock and trauma: only the passing of time and experience of life did that.

Like many others, your experience has really resonated with me, and I don't know if this advice is of the slightest use, but here goes:

Firstly, and as soon as you feel able, get as much hard, vigorous exercise as much as you can and for as long as you can, preferably out of doors. Together with a disciplined dedicated programme worked out by a competent trainer. People say "Oh you must have therapy", but a shock like this is physical: when your heart is broken, something is definitely happening to your actual heart, and, if you think about it, so much physical and emotional exchange with your H over so many years, did actually make him a part of you, so not even remotely surprising that your hair is falling out and you have a chest infection. You don't want to internalise all this until you end up in a permanent state of ill health or have your life-span shortened. I don't know the chemistry of it all, but after you have got into a regular routine of running, swimming or whatever, things fall away, you rise above all the crowded events of our day-to-day life, and past, present and future all fall into proportion: I think we are both more or less the same age, and, after you've disciplined your body to the extent that you can at least partly discipline your mind and emotions, really taking in the trees, flowers and other beautiful things around you, running past the disabled and elderly person barely able to get themselves across the road, you realise that you still have possibly 40 YEARS of precious life ahead of you to do something with through your own agency and your own actions, and not a second more of which should be wasted on your mutant husband or his irresponsible, amoral ectomorph.

I agree with supplements of some kind, but I feel these need to be prescribed, after a thorough check-up, by a really qualified nutritionist, who will be able to deal with issues like your hair: going into Holland and Barrett and trying to choose between the bewildering array of what's on the shelves will do more harm than good, and your body must have got seriously out of kilter after all this.

I also totally agree with PP who advise a self-care programme, but I would go much further: if you can possibly afford it right now, a spa break, immersing yourself in a lot of water for a long period of time, professional make-up tutorials, a micro-needling treatment to pep up your skin, professional hair styling with proper treatments, total make-over. Can you afford, or can you take the time off for, a really great holiday outside the UK altogether, somewhere really beautiful with plenty of beach? (making sure that H isn't able to nab the house or do anything else while you're away). Looking back, I feel that getting clean out of the UK, in a totally different environment for a couple of weeks, might actually have done a lot to jolt me out of the state I was in, and certainly have prevented me from festering in my home, descending slowly into madness.

We're only really guessing of course, but it seems that your husband doesn't seem to have even remotely thought things through, and clearly didn't even begin to think about the logistics and practicalities of the wholesale life change he was about to make: possibly, what happened was that after some ultimatum or showdown with the ectomorph, he came charging round, in his own delusional, dopamine-addled state, imagining that he could just offload the house and get the cash quick for another home just like that (and the market being what it is, selling may well be a matter of years), offload you and the family just like that, and this situation of OW and her husband seems very odd to me: he just does not have the foundations to build a successful alternative relationship, especially with such a woman as she seems to be, and, as PP have said above, what may happen is that he will sink down further in the hole he's busy digging for himself, and his relationship, if you could call it that, will just implode.

In which case, he may well be back, seeking if not a reconciliation, at least a rapprochement with the family: whether you'll want anything to do with him by that time is another matter, but you yourself don't want to be sinking any further down into in the hole he's dug for you. So the answer to your original question may well be yes, but even if he does attempt to weasel his way back, the last thing you want is to be looking like Wurzel Gummidge: you want to be looking transformed, looking busy with some really great project or projects with some purpose beyond all the horrible conflicts and traumas that H and OW have put you through, and with very little time for him and the messes he's making with his life, the house and everything else. That's my two ha'penny worth: it may be bull or completely unhelpful, but I just thought I'd stick it on here anyway.

WizardOfAus · 29/11/2024 18:14

Wow @LaBarruci
thats the best advice I’ve ever seen on here.
im so glad you came through the other side.

Tealeavesinthecup · 29/11/2024 18:17

LaBarruci · 29/11/2024 17:58

OP, I was in your situation many years back: when I received his contemptuous, short message, I sank to the floor with my heart cut out and spent the next couple of years destroyed. Literally a complete shell, barely able to think coherently at all. No amount of vague advice about "keep yourself busy" or makeovers or what have you could have compensated for the simple fact that I just wanted him back. No matter what he had done, no matter what he had said, I wanted him back. Even so, I might have struggled through and got back to something resembling normal if I had not found myself pregnant shortly after his letter and disappearance (we had no children) and with no choice but to terminate. There were no pills in those days, the abortion process was an isolated and laborious procedure provided, if you had the cash, by the BPAS (thankfully not the NHS, the way people's attitudes were at the time).

It was, of course, trauma piled on more trauma, and my mind and body were simply not able to process what had happened. I slipped in a delusional state and started having full-blown hallucinations about the "real" meaning of his letter, "messages" from songs I was listening to at the time, the Virgin Mary, all kinds of stuff, and set off on several wild goose chases across the country, harassing his parents, until a final confrontation got me sort of back to my senses, at least as far as he was concerned. I barely missed being sectioned and ending up permanently mad, and, while I did eventually attend the local psychiatric hospital as an outpatient, received therapy and antidepressants, and was grateful of course, none of it did much to relieve the shock and trauma: only the passing of time and experience of life did that.

Like many others, your experience has really resonated with me, and I don't know if this advice is of the slightest use, but here goes:

Firstly, and as soon as you feel able, get as much hard, vigorous exercise as much as you can and for as long as you can, preferably out of doors. Together with a disciplined dedicated programme worked out by a competent trainer. People say "Oh you must have therapy", but a shock like this is physical: when your heart is broken, something is definitely happening to your actual heart, and, if you think about it, so much physical and emotional exchange with your H over so many years, did actually make him a part of you, so not even remotely surprising that your hair is falling out and you have a chest infection. You don't want to internalise all this until you end up in a permanent state of ill health or have your life-span shortened. I don't know the chemistry of it all, but after you have got into a regular routine of running, swimming or whatever, things fall away, you rise above all the crowded events of our day-to-day life, and past, present and future all fall into proportion: I think we are both more or less the same age, and, after you've disciplined your body to the extent that you can at least partly discipline your mind and emotions, really taking in the trees, flowers and other beautiful things around you, running past the disabled and elderly person barely able to get themselves across the road, you realise that you still have possibly 40 YEARS of precious life ahead of you to do something with through your own agency and your own actions, and not a second more of which should be wasted on your mutant husband or his irresponsible, amoral ectomorph.

I agree with supplements of some kind, but I feel these need to be prescribed, after a thorough check-up, by a really qualified nutritionist, who will be able to deal with issues like your hair: going into Holland and Barrett and trying to choose between the bewildering array of what's on the shelves will do more harm than good, and your body must have got seriously out of kilter after all this.

I also totally agree with PP who advise a self-care programme, but I would go much further: if you can possibly afford it right now, a spa break, immersing yourself in a lot of water for a long period of time, professional make-up tutorials, a micro-needling treatment to pep up your skin, professional hair styling with proper treatments, total make-over. Can you afford, or can you take the time off for, a really great holiday outside the UK altogether, somewhere really beautiful with plenty of beach? (making sure that H isn't able to nab the house or do anything else while you're away). Looking back, I feel that getting clean out of the UK, in a totally different environment for a couple of weeks, might actually have done a lot to jolt me out of the state I was in, and certainly have prevented me from festering in my home, descending slowly into madness.

We're only really guessing of course, but it seems that your husband doesn't seem to have even remotely thought things through, and clearly didn't even begin to think about the logistics and practicalities of the wholesale life change he was about to make: possibly, what happened was that after some ultimatum or showdown with the ectomorph, he came charging round, in his own delusional, dopamine-addled state, imagining that he could just offload the house and get the cash quick for another home just like that (and the market being what it is, selling may well be a matter of years), offload you and the family just like that, and this situation of OW and her husband seems very odd to me: he just does not have the foundations to build a successful alternative relationship, especially with such a woman as she seems to be, and, as PP have said above, what may happen is that he will sink down further in the hole he's busy digging for himself, and his relationship, if you could call it that, will just implode.

In which case, he may well be back, seeking if not a reconciliation, at least a rapprochement with the family: whether you'll want anything to do with him by that time is another matter, but you yourself don't want to be sinking any further down into in the hole he's dug for you. So the answer to your original question may well be yes, but even if he does attempt to weasel his way back, the last thing you want is to be looking like Wurzel Gummidge: you want to be looking transformed, looking busy with some really great project or projects with some purpose beyond all the horrible conflicts and traumas that H and OW have put you through, and with very little time for him and the messes he's making with his life, the house and everything else. That's my two ha'penny worth: it may be bull or completely unhelpful, but I just thought I'd stick it on here anyway.

You sound like one amazing person.

LaBarruci · 29/11/2024 18:46

@Tealeavesinthecup Thanks! I need to take my own advice! I am constantly making resolutions to embark on this disciplined exercise programme, and just as constantly putting it off. Yes, I did recover, but I am still not the same person as I would have been had I not had the misfortune to get into such a destructive relationship (I was too young to understand his mentality but he was a heavy drinker and former heavy drug user, with serious problems with his sexuality due to his very small genitals, and no way was I going to be able to sort out his issues: he in fact died not long after our bust-up). I have had a successful career, but still not as successful as it could have been, and, now I'm of an age, and with (finally) a reasonable income, I am looking now at how I can redeem and really enjoy these possible next forty years, do something really constructive with the experience I have. Which is the only thing, ultimately, that OP can do, as well. The whole thing was totally destructive: there was nothing good about the experience at all, and the most you can say is that there are many toxic people about who will ruin their own lives and everyone else's lives, drag you and everyone else down with them: with regard to the drug users, gamblers, alcoholics, and depressives who weave their way in and out of the forums on here: there's nothing you can do. Walk away at once.

I think what's really got to everyone here with regard to OP's story is the amount of time involved: what was it, 35, 39 years together, since 1989 or thereabouts? And then to confront this hideous sudden transformation of her husband, all those years down the toilet, and everything she believed in trashed. I so feel for her.

SpryCat · 29/11/2024 22:42

@LaBarruci no matter how much you suffered you finally found yourself again, changed but so strong!

MsCactus · 29/11/2024 23:03

Hope you're doing OK today OP x

Ydkiml · 01/12/2024 09:05

LaBarruci …. What a journey you have been on . You do sound an amazing, caring , inspiring strong woman . I’m hoping Op will give us an update soon and im hoping she stays with us so we can help her

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