Wife can’t live with my son

[Zihgty]

My wife and I have been together 6 years, we had our first child 4 years ago, and my son from a previous marriage moved in at the same time we had our baby (ex wife having trouble with him), and things have been ‘ok’ until recently when my son and wife have not been getting on- my son is almost 15 btw - he seems to resent her asking him to do things around the house, and when I was out for the eveing he called her a bitch. I spoke with him and told him if it happens again he can move back in with his mum, and things have been ok since.

However my wife now tells me I have to choose between him and her- if he stays she moves out, she’s not happy living with him.

Im so depressed that I’ve been put in this situation. My son’s mum is already looking after my 2 other kids, (11 and 16). Deep down I just want everyone to get along. I love my wife and want to have a happy life with her, my previous marriage failed and this time I’m sure it’s a good thing. I also don’t want to let my son down.

any advice appreciated.

A lot of excuses being made for the DS here and a lot of blame being put on the stepmum who has been verbally abused... standard Mumsnet eh?

If the boy's own mother couldn't handle his behaviour and sent him to live full time with his father, and now the stepmum is also struggling, that suggests a serious issue with the son's behaviour that isn't being correctly or effectively addressed by either biological parent, rather than an issue with the stepmum (who is an innocent casualty in all of this).

OP is very obviously minimising his DS's behaviour and not telling the full story, so we cannot give accurate advice. If his DW has given an ultimatum after the "bitch" incident has already been dealt with, then there are clearly a lot more problems here than are being divulged. What else has happened to bring about the ultimatum from his DW? And why is his DS no longer living with his mother? Why was she struggling so much with her own son's behaviour that she basically kicked him out?

There are a lot of unanswered questions here and I doubt OP will be back to answer them, because none of the answers will say anything good about his own influence in his son's life. His son has learned to disrespect women from somewhere and fingers will point directly at OP.

The DS does not need excuses made for his behaviour here - he needs help correcting himself before he is unleashed into the world as yet another misogynistic, entitled, adult man and a threat to women.
We have an issue with male violence and male abuse of women precisely because of the excuses that are made for the behaviour of boys - this needs to stop.

In this situation, if I were the stepmum, I would issue no ultimatum. I would simply pack my bags and leave with my youngest. She needs to prioritise herself and her own child, while OP needs to deal with his son's behaviour before it becomes engrained and irreversible.
I think this is the only solution OP, if you are still reading. You need to deal with your son and model how to respect women to him.

What would you say about the situation if the DS was a girl?

My own step daughter did/said much of the same things at age 14 (though I rarely asked more of her than not to slam the cabinets and to put her dishes in the sink instead of leaving them in other rooms.) I still have a letter tucked away in my sock drawer that was addressed to her dad calling me all sorts of names, saying how much she hates me, and (perhaps most hurtfully) saying my voice sounds like a chicken caught in a garbage disposal. I only keep it as a reminder that even though things aren't perfect four years later, they've improved significantly since then.

Her lashing out was (and is) a result of her feeling hurt and confused by her parents' divorce, and the fact that they moved on. Maybe the DS here is just going through the same, and it's not some symptom of larger societal male violence and abuse or whatever the heck. Maybe a bit compassion would help.

Oh dear, OP. It appears you thread has been invaded by a lot of the very bitter step-mothers from the "step-parenting board", hence some of the rather odd and very biased responses you've received as the thread progressed. I did wonder why there were so many posts later on inexplicable attempting to defend the indefensible behaviour of the step mother but it now makes sense given the names of many of those posters who have a vested interest and would defend anything a step-mother did regardless of the circumstances because children are all evil and they are^ so hard done by.^

I think if you ignore all of that nonsense which is quite easy to spot you can see that the balanced and objective views are very much that your wife's behaviour has been appalling. Your son is a child, she is meant to be an adult. Your son should not be rude and needs to know there will be appropriate and proportionate consequences for that (not kicking a child out of their home obviously!) you need to be a far more engaged parent and actually spend time with him 1:1 to build his feeling of belonging and security (the opposite of what your wife has tried to engineer).

You also need to make sure he (and you wife!!) know that he and all of your children will always be prioritised over a romantic partner, and that ultimatums (particularly any demanding that a child is thrown out of their home) are totally unacceptable and your relationship will not continue unless she makes immediate apologies for this.

The reason I responded as I did is because the DS has had issues with both female authority figures in his life but doesn't appear to have the same issue with his male authority figure. His disrespect is targeted at the women in his life, not the men - otherwise OP's initial post would have been a lot different.

I imagine in your case, you became a target for your DSD's negative emotions and insecurities because it's easier to hate and blame an external party than your caregivers, so she displaced those negative emotions she had towards her own parents over their divorce onto you. That's a very different situation from the OP - where the biological mother cannot deal with her own son's behaviour so he's now living with his father, where it's likely the same behavioural issues are now arising with his stepmother to the point where she feels the need to issue an ultimatum after 4 years.

Your situation is not the same as OP's. Each child and situation is different.

I only keep it as a reminder that even though things aren't perfect four years later, they've improved significantly since then.

Yes. Of course that's the reason...

With re: your second paragraph... yes, the negative emotions were displaced onto me, the step mum, as well as her mum's boyfriend. My DH was struggling with her an awful lot too, to the point where he often expressed to me a guilty desire to have her stop coming over. It's just that no matter how much she was hurting him, it would hurt him more to not see her. And it did, when she decided to stay with her mother full time.

You're right though; we don't have all the details and every child is different... I just also think the early teen years are turbulent for everyone, especially for children of divorce and/or mixed families, and there's no reason to go jumping to gendered conclusions.

It is. Why else would I keep it?

It's been such a struggle the entire time I've known her, but I think overall she's a smart, lovely, wonderful person, and don't want anything other than to have a good relationship with her and for our family to be whole again. I feel really bad for her because I can see she's having the same sort of anxieties I used to have when I was her age, as she's telling her dad she thinks I hate her, and that's the reason she's not opening or responding to attempts at reaching out. It really is such a pity.

Casually ignoring the fact that DS's own biological mother turfed him out for poor behaviour? No no, it's the stepmum's fault and she should be expected to tolerate being verbally abused in her own home - and anyone saying otherwise is a "bitter" stepmum 🙄

I agree an ultimatum wasn't the way to go, but this is a boy who's behaviour was problematic enough for his own mother to struggle with - how is a stepmum to be expected to cope with it any better?
Rather than issuing an ultimatum, OP's DW should have just left with her own young child when it became clear that the behaviour from DS wasn't going to change. DS's biological parents both need to step up and help their son with this rather than passing the buck back and forth.
The OP has been purposely vague about his DS's behaviour for a reason.

And yet you keep this evidence of something bad she said to you in anger in your sock drawer, rather than laying it to rest and moving on from it, so that you can pull it out at will as "evidence" of how horrible she is... or just in reality something she once said in anger as a much younger child.

This is extremely unhealthy and if you can't see a problem with it then I think a good therapist might be able to help you to get more objectivity on the situation and to move on from something an angry child once said to you.

I, for one, am just saying that a) divorce is hard on children, and some of them hang onto it for years, and b) teenagers of both genders are full of raging hormones and emotions, so if you put these two things things together, it seems like the perfect storm.

I just think it would be more mature for all of the adults in this situation to meet him with a little more compassion, in addition to the parental correction and involvement others have suggested. It doesn't seem like anyone is being particularly mature here.

Casually ignoring the fact that DS's own biological mother turfed him out for poor behaviour? No no, it's the stepmum's fault and she should be expected to tolerate being verbally abused in her own home - and anyone saying otherwise is a "bitter" stepmum 🙄

What is it with these comments deliberatelt misrepresenting what people bave said over and over again?

It doesn't paint you in a good light. It's manipulative and extremely disingenuous and dishonest and you know this. You might be able to manipulate partners this way, or get away with it with teenagers who are less experienced at spotting at and less confident to call it out (particularly if they are being threatened with being thrown out of their home) but I'm afraid it won't wash with people here, who are a little more astute and see exactly what is going on.

The whole "woe is me, the poor, poor step-mother act" won't work when it is very obvious from the thread which posts have been written by step-mothers trying to defend appalling behaviour from the OP's wife and make excuses for it, perhaps die to guilty consciences or in other cases likely because they're desperately trying to convince themselves that their step-children are to blame for the really unpleasant home environments that they have created through their own selfish choices, in which those children had no choice whatsoever.

No child should be threatened with the removal of their home.

You're making stuff up now. I just said it here that I think she's wonderful, not horrible. She's gone through some tough stuff and she's lashed out, that's all. Now any time we're having a tough time with it, I see that little note and it helps me remember that we're on our way; I just need to give it a little more time.

You're making stuff up now. I just said it here that I think she's wonderful, not horrible. She's gone through some tough stuff and she's lashed out, that's all. Now any time we're having a tough time with it, I see that little note and it helps me remember that we're on our way; I just need to give it a little more time.

🤣🤣🤣🤣

Yeah, sure.

She would be horrified if she knew you were keeping that note stashed away like this. You know that. But you do it anyway.

There are such appalling people around who seem to have zero idea of how to relate to children or teenagers and it would be so much better for all involved if they just stayed away from them entirely rather than adding to the trauma of children who've already been through a family breakdown.

Just ignore them. That poster clearly has issues of their own with stepmums and it's being projected extremely obviously. You won't get a reasonable response from them because they have no desire to see from any perspective other than their own and they are looking for a bunfight.
You do not need to defend yourself, doing so just gives them oxygen.

I don't know how she would feel (embarrassed perhaps?), but I imagine her feelings would change depending on whether she knew the reason I keep it or not...Her own father kept it for several years in his sock drawer, coincidentally, until we moved houses and I found it while unpacking. He said to throw it away, but I couldn't. Not to be dramatic, but it feels like the scars on my body I sometimes look at and remember what I've gotten through.

I feel really bad for you if you can't believe that someone might have positive feelings towards their step children and hope for the future.

The problem is your ex doesn't want her son either. She disowned him and threw him out of his home when he was 11 due to bad behaviour.

So if this is the case
What has now triggered your dw to say she can’t live with him.
Surely something has happened

If nothing has happened then it must be something else. Maybe your dw would rather it was just the three of you, maybe she doesn’t want her SS in the house all the time.

Did you all discuss the living arrangements and agree on them before your Ds moved in.

Something has either happened or your dw has changed her mind.

15 year olds can be tricky ! With the information you’ve given so far I don’t think he’s doing anything out of the ordinary and if you both agreed to him living with you you have to take the rough with the smooth.

You can’t just chuck him out!

Your first loyalty is to your children. End of. I’m a father too. Were I in your position and given an ultimatum like that my reaction would be “Ok it sounds like we need to separate if you are really not happy. Let’s sit down and discuss how we will handle sharing care of our 4 year old.” Be considerate, kind and generous in how you choose to navigate this with your wife but the primary focus of this is the children.

Best of luck.

I'll bet he would say it to a teacher. As soon as the OP added in mitigation that it was "under his breath" I got flashbacks to when I was still teaching full time - kids got off with swearing at teaching staff if they said it under their breath and/or as they were leaving rather than "directly" at staff.

SLT would say "Ah, but were you meant to hear it?" OP appears to be making the same feeble argument.

OP's son needs to know that this is not acceptable.

Thank you.

I'm not saying that the son should be put out of the house for calling his SM this. I would suggest that - at the very least - there needs to be an apology and a clear message from OP that this kind of behaviour is unacceptable.

Yes, teens behave like this - but if they're allowed to, they'll keep pushing boundaries.

And, presumably, a HUGE apology from the step-mother both to the OP and directly to his son for her attempt to blackmail his father into making him homeless, which is MUCH worse than him muttering an insult under his breath.

It is reassuring to see a father posting who would behave in the appropriate way in this situation.

He said to throw it away, but I couldn't

So you have done this knowing that it would be humiliating for your step-daughter and against her father's wishes.

But it's all soooo innocent.

Yeah, ok.

At work (in secondary schools), I've known 15 yr old boys to do a lot of damage to female staff. Someone upthread seems to think that schools would exclude for calling someone a "bitch". That might happen in some schools, but too many allow teenage boys to behave in an aggressive manner towards women because the boys are perceived to have mitigating issues.

Possibly it's worse in Scotland, since under-16s here are mainly dealt with by the Children's Panel, rather than the courts.

The lowest end of physical aggression that I've seen is when boys have barged women out of the way. Even doing that can cause damage. That's why the OP cannot allow this son's behaviour to escalate.

Again, I'm not saying to throw him out. I'm saying that the OP has to deal with it.