Is he just not that into me?

[Tex111]

Dating for the first time in over 30 years. Been seeing a lovely man for almost six months. He's in Manchester, I'm in London. We see each other most weekends and it's been wonderful. I've fallen in love and the feeling is mutual.

He used to live in London and he said recently that he'd like to catch up with old friends next time he's here since for the last few months he's just been seeing me. I said of course.

He usually stays with me but this weekend he's arranged to stay with friends and is seeing a few people. The thing that I find odd is that he's not going to see me at all. If I was in Manchester, I'd want to see him, even if just for a coffee or a meal. Is that weird or am I being clingy? I

The other element of this is that he's seeing his ex while here. He swears there's no chance of anything untoward happening (they split over a year ago, had a tumultuous two year relationship before that) but he wants to speak to her for some closure as things ended badly between them. I do believe him on this. Is that naive?

I've told him that it hurts that he'll be so close but doesn't want to make the effort to see me. He said he could ring me Sunday and maybe stay here Sunday night, but I don't think he really wants to do that. What does that mean??

Wow. He's clearly an absolute navel-gazing bore. I honestly think that you will find someone you love more.

And @Tex111 just to remind you, you're not his therapist - why should you have to listen to all this crap from him?

Oh you seem so nice. He's such a dickhead. He just wants someone with low boundaries who is passive. You're a 10 and he's a 2. Also, his play sounds horseshit. Stay single until you find someone who deserves you.

Would it be OK if I just dropped this TikTok here for a little comic relief? I read your OP and it reminded me of this video which has had me giggling away to myself every time I think about it!

https://www.tiktok.com/@corrie.moments/video/7408624414117350688?_r=1&u_code=de37k6aced9e9h&preview_pb=0&sharer_language=en&_d=ee3l01hdmj0eci&share_item_id=7408624414117350688&source=h5_m&timestamp=1731249912&utm_source=whatsapp&tt_from=whatsapp&enable_checksum=1&utm_medium=ios&share_link_id=1864285D-AB2E-4B26-9EE2-437E4AC2E5BD&user_id=6862462390912287749&sec_user_id=MS4wLjABAAAAy-TeoHcLV5UgRj_4XNRGfVd1J6wN_Xdxqz5UiQAkGT1e3ycHro-0Wwo_jkPBP5Kk&social_share_type=0&ug_btm=b6880,b2878&utm_campaign=client_share&link_reflow_popup_iteration_sharer=%7B%22profile_clickable%22:1,%22dynamic_cover%22:1,%22follow_to_play_duration%22:-1,%22click_empty_to_play%22:1%7D&share_app_id=1233

Ugh huge link sorry about that.

After six months you're starting to see his true colours. I'm not one for telling people what to do because they're ones living their own lives but this seems so difficult for such a new relationship.

I know you want to see the good in him and believe what he's telling you but I really hope you start to look at his actions as they're at complete odds with this words. He wants you to keep quiet and suppress your own feelings and happiness, whilst he spends God knows how much time with his ex, collaborating on something involving her reading out love letters that she sent to him.

He should be well rid of his relationship with his ex and I really hope for your sake, you're soon well rid of this one.

The audience isn't going to give a shit if it's his ex reading out those words, or some other woman. So who benefits?

Exactly- it makes zero difference to the audience if the ex is reading them or some random woman he picked who simply has a good reading voice. This is 100% about him getting an ego stroke from hearing her read those words out to him over and over again.This isnt a "collaboration", its him wanting to hear her read her old love letters to him, literally any woman could do that in a performance, it doesnt have to be her.

I actually think he is being very calculating and manipulative. He's playing you like an absolute fiddle- gaslighting you and telling you its all for his art when he is clearly fixated on this ex.

Him.

He is soooo not over his ex it hurts. His mom didn't love him so he has an abandonment wound, a childhood trauma. The ex probably dumped him and he just can't get over it, instead of getting therapy and breaking all ties with her he decides to embark in an art project with said ex where she can read his love letters loud out in public, seriously... 😂

Yes and she’s ‘flattered’ because it’s ‘art’.

It sounds like he’s still into her OP. He’s trying to win her back with this ‘project’.

Gross!

Absolutely it’s his vanity project and it’s a huge ego trip for him to get off hearing her recite words of love towards him.

OP please find some self respect and stop letting this man manipulate you into being his back up plan.

I sent him a long email laying it all out. I feel stronger writing it than saying.

I said that I'm not sure he can give me the love I need and deserve. That reconnecting with his ex is hurtful and disrespectful to me and our relationship. That having her read her words of love to him is weird and going backwards, not forwards. That his actions speak louder than his words. That I love him and feel a genuine connection but that I have to choose myself. I left the ball in his court. I still want to give him the chance to do right by me.

I said that I'm out tonight but we can speak later in the week.

That may sound like nothing but for me it's a big step.

Maybe he's not trying to win her back, maybe he's just a poet/performance artist (dunno) finding inspiration for his works by dwelling in past relationships as a form of closure. Why? because he doesn't have that closure. Getting into a relationship with a man that is not over his ex is a mistake (a painful one). This man hasn't healed yet.

@Tex111 you sound as though you’re making yourself smaller & smaller & turning yourself inside out in an effort to get this man to understand you.

Have you considered that he knows that this is hurting you but doesn’t care.

I can feel your hurt & bewilderment with every post. There are no magic words that you can say to him that will make him do a U Turn.

All this deep talking for hours should not be happening at 6 months.

Could you get an appointment with your counsellor?

I'm seeing my counselor tomorrow.

It is a big step. By writing it all down you have also been able to organise your thoughts and not get too upset or emotional.
If doing right by you means leaving this woman and this project in the past, and putting your relationship in the now first, then I hope he understands that’s what he has to do.
Hope all goes well with your counsellor. You have made real strides already, and should give yourself a pat on the back.

I feel I'm teetering on the edge of desperate. I don't know how to change that. And making excuses for bad behaviour is something I did constantly in my marriage. It feels so ingrained in me. I don't know how to be different yet. This is my baggage.

With respect, OP, you are not ready for a relationship right now. You are extremely vulnerable, and unsurprisingly these vulnerabilities have been sniffed out by a jerk.

Stop waiting hoping that he will "choose you". Choose yourself and end it with him. Even if he responds to your ultimatum (that's what your email is - her or me) by ending the project, he will always be the man who wanted to do the project in the first place.

Take more time to get to know yourself, to heal from your past relationship(s), to develop healthy boundaries. This man is a poor quality, self-obsessed twat. You shouldn't WANT him to choose you, he should disgust you and give you immediate ick.

So well done OP- this is a big step and really proud of you for doing this

Well done for taking control here and laying out your position by email. It sounds like you’re pretty clear on your needs and your boundaries which must feel empowering.

If he decides not to pursue working with his ex he really needs to own that decision otherwise resentment will likely build up that you are trying to interfere with his ‘artistic vision’. The challenge is he’s using his professional life to explore his private life, in a public sphere. There is a huge blurring of boundaries here so I can see how he might view it more clinically because it’s a professional piece of work, but you of course will see it as a personal affront because it’s reflecting on and impacting both of your private lives.

Is the majority of his work a reflection of himself / personal exploration? If it is, this could be an issue going forward with other work, even if he does ‘the right thing’ this time.
I’m assuming his ex wife is also featuring if it’s legit about a relationship ending…??!

It you can get past the ‘public humiliation’ of his ex reading the love letters for the sake of artistic integrity, it may be worth exploring whether there’s a practical compromise you could come to. It sounds like it’s a day or twos work at most to do a voice over. Would you feel more comfortable if it were set up professionally, ie; 2 days contract work that she is paid for, liaising with a producer primarily, if he has one. Voice over work can absolutely be done remotely and does not require meeting in person - could this be agreed to?

Ultimately though, it sounds like he has been disingenuous with you about what he went into the conversation with the ex about - the outcome he wanted being this project. He needs to be honest about that and not dress it up as it being about closure, but it’s easy to wrap a narrative around this when dressing it up as an artistic endeavour.

This is a really interesting take.

That other woman have performed this duty prior to this only shows that his piece works without exGF reading her words. If he was after the real deal he would have found a way to persuade exGF to do it from the start.

It suggests a psychopathic sophisticated level of revenge from this man to keep hearing the woman who turned him away reading her previous words of love to him. It's vile.

@Tex111
I'm seeing my counselor tomorrow.

Great. Edited to add that I didn't spot your earlier email to him. Well done it's a brilliant step, and stops him being able to confuse you with more words of love and attempts at reassurance that he is in the right straight away.

How many more chances will this man have to keep hurting you? As @VaddaABeetch says you sound like you are becoming smaller.

In prettier words he is openly telling you he doesn't care about your feelings, he wants you to be a good girl and let him do as he pleases. He has lied in a an abusive way and is manipulating you by telling you it is all for you.

You will find your anger eventually at this treatment, you are too close in to see what is happening right now. But I hope for your sake you find it sooner rather than later because if you get too far in you could lose yourself again.

That way you are depriving you and another man who cares for you real happiness and lets face it, why on earth would you do that?

Yes, I've thought about the issue of future resentment and wondered if there was a compromise. He does use his personal life in his work regularly, so this work is not surprising, just painful for me. I think it's the bigger implication of not considering my feelings at all. Making plans with the ex without even a thought as to how it might make me feel.

He's done no work regarding the ex wife but did a work years ago about another short lived relationship. He seems to get most inspiration from the turbulent relationships. He's also done work on his mother's death. Very female centred, now that I think about it. He's done other things, but those are the most personal.

I've thought about it being a professional thing, but in the course of it they will inevitably reminisce. It's the nature of the work. It's not so much those potential moments that bother me, it's the idea that he still wants her. That this is a way to have her in his life. That feels hurtful and disrespectful to me and our relationship.

I don't feel shamed by the work. It was made months before we met. It is a bit awkward though. At the performance I attended, a few people asked me about it. They wondered why I hadn't read the female part. I explained that it was the actual love letters from an ex and then they understood. In fact, he'd asked me to read it and I refused. It felt too weird.

OP asking you to read that woman’s words is really, really distasteful at best.
If you were my friend that on its own would really concern me. I would tell you to run for the hills.

@Tex111 I explained that it was the actual love letters from an ex and then they understood. In fact, he'd asked me to read it and I refused. It felt too weird.

What a weirdo 😳

I have a friend who is quite a known writer and gets most of his “inspiration fuel” from his toxic relationships (which are endless). He seems to enjoy the emotional roller coaster side of things then write about them. I yet have to see him in a healthy relationship but I don’t think it’s going to happen because he would have nothing to write about. Your guy likes the drama OP.

In fact, he'd asked me to read it and I refused. It felt too weird

I am so glad you said no!

Interesting that he hasn’t made works about his wife - could suggest that his view of / feelings for you are more akin to those of his wife - less wild and passionate but more serious / longer term? I’d be interested to know how his wife dealt with / what consideration he gave to his wife in his making of art when they were together. Perhaps she gave him cart Blanche and he was thoughtlessly expecting the same from you?

At best his actions have been thoughtless and selfish, at worst they are intentionally hurtful in so far as he doesn’t care that it hurts you - or at least the artistic outcome / his desire to connect with his ex outweigh any distress to you. If the former he should be able to offer a remedy or compromise. If the later I’d guess it’s a dealbreaker.

Either way you are entirely justified in your concern that it’s a way for him to continue a relationship with his ex - even if he justifies it as for creative purposes ultimately - which is why his actions in response to you raising your concerns will be key. I’d be wondering how honest he is being not only with you but also with himself about his feelings for his ex.