Is he just not that into me?

[Tex111]

Dating for the first time in over 30 years. Been seeing a lovely man for almost six months. He's in Manchester, I'm in London. We see each other most weekends and it's been wonderful. I've fallen in love and the feeling is mutual.

He used to live in London and he said recently that he'd like to catch up with old friends next time he's here since for the last few months he's just been seeing me. I said of course.

He usually stays with me but this weekend he's arranged to stay with friends and is seeing a few people. The thing that I find odd is that he's not going to see me at all. If I was in Manchester, I'd want to see him, even if just for a coffee or a meal. Is that weird or am I being clingy? I

The other element of this is that he's seeing his ex while here. He swears there's no chance of anything untoward happening (they split over a year ago, had a tumultuous two year relationship before that) but he wants to speak to her for some closure as things ended badly between them. I do believe him on this. Is that naive?

I've told him that it hurts that he'll be so close but doesn't want to make the effort to see me. He said he could ring me Sunday and maybe stay here Sunday night, but I don't think he really wants to do that. What does that mean??

@Tex111 don’t answer if it is too outing but is this project part of his professional life or a hobby outside of it?

I agree but not if he still was looking for closure one year after ending the relationship with the ex and six months in with me - - and on top of that being unavailable to meet me befote knowing the outcome of a meeting with the ex but suddenly available once it is estabilished in said meeting that their relationship is truly over - wtf?
So clear that if she was open he would go as far as possible with her

He didn’t need closure, he wanted another shot, she is not interested so he used plan b - the collaboration - stroking her ego so she can participate in a creative project about the break up where she is THE MUSE

I guess he wants to keep OP around as an emotional crutch and to play cool for the ex, perhaps even use OP to spark competition and jeoulosy from the ex

The art work is part of his professional life and the exes contribution would be a voiceover on the final recording of it. It's a multimedia project.

Brace yourselves, she'd be reading from her own love letters that he included in the work. He's literally setting it up so that she reads her words of love to him. And in the past year he's had other women read those words at performances. I told him that he's using the work to hold onto the relationship.

I do think that this woman has become a symbol in his mind for something much bigger. He agrees with that. I said he needs to focus on the bigger issues: the end of his marriage, his own mortality and (dare I say it) his mother's ambiguity towards him, and not this one woman. He's returning to counselling to try to do this.

In the meantime, I think he sees my discomfort with the ex as me trying to control him. I've said that I would never tell him what to do, but I am telling him that this hurts me and I don't want to continue being hurt.

I think he's emotionally confused, but I do think he's trying. I'm not ready to give up just yet but I'm taking a big step back emotionally. We'll see less of each other over the next month or so and that won't be a bad thing. I think we both have a lot to think about.

I have lovely plans with a friend tonight, so no deep talks with DP.

If the work exists and he already performed 2x, why does he want the ex to collaborate?

I don’t usually like to be so abrupt but honestly he sounds a wreck. Yet you are very concerned with his issues and his feelings. Where’s your anger? He lied to you. Why waste more time on this?

I agree with you, this man sounds a bit confused, if he was single engaging in a creative project with the ex would be fine but if you’re in a new relationship out of respect for your new partner you should not do
it. Maybe he doesn’t see the OP as his new partner but more of a part time situationship, or maybe he does but he’s a man child and it’s all about him so who cares how she feels. OP needs to become more assertive with her boundaries if this is something that really bothers her. Most women would not entertain this nonsense.

Sorry OP but I now feel you’re desperate to hold into this man and so trying to analyse his behaviour and make excuses for him.

Personally I think you’re making a huge mistake clinging onto him and I fear you’re setting yourself up for more and more heartbreak. I do fear he’s got you in a head spin and you’re not seeing the reality that he’s a head fuck.

Please think carefully, talk up your friends and make the right decision for your own well being.

I was angry during our conversation and expressed it very clearly to him. I think it's my nature to show concern for people I care about, and I do very much care about him.

OP - tread carefully with this one. He sounds either emotionally immature and confused, or like a covert narcissist. Whichever way, heartache ahead for you. Dressing up a frankly shitty behaviour in art won’t change the fact that it just is a shitty behaviour.

Yes, I feel I'm teetering on the edge of desperate. I don't know how to change that. And making excuses for bad behaviour is something I did constantly in my marriage. It feels so ingrained in me. I don't know how to be different yet. This is my baggage. I'm trying to parse out what's my shit and what's DP's shit so I can see the situation clearly, but there's so much shit!

Will definitely be talking this over with friends and my therapist.

Oh OP he's such bad news. Please Chuck him. What self indulgent claptrap.

It's hard, I get that. Mumsnet can always be very black and white, when none of us can usually perform that way in our actual lives.

So, you were angry, and he is still going ahead.

You care for him.... does he care for you?

Healthy relationships are not this hard, and confusion is usually solved in one conversation.

When there is ongoing confusion, then at least one person is deliberately obfuscating, and in this scenario, it isn't you.

Your real baggage is whatever is stopping you from exiting this relationship.

I don't know if he's still going ahead. He said that he would think about it. I'm trying to work out if he really cares for me, or cares for me enough, or in the way that I need. I have a lot of thinking to do.

I don't mean to be rude but i have a creative quibble with this, not to mention what the Spanish call verguenza ajena (feeling embarrassed for someone) regarding a grown man making a show of himself in this way. That is to say risking a relationship with a good woman publicly by asking a short term ex to read out love letters.

So, if it's a poignant piece about the process and the end of love, loss and loneliness etc, surely having the object of said love available for voiceover work shuts off the open endedness of this emotional state in quite a clunking way?

You are playing the role of therapist, counsellor, surrogate mother, emotional pillow, ride or die fallback girl - this will not earn you the passion, adoration and commitment you want - he will use you, drain you, spit you out and then look for another muse to ‘love’ and have his juvenile emotions with

You will never be respected if you don’t have self respect first, I think you are lacking in your self esteem a little bit and you can use this situation to learn how to love yourself more and acquire more self esteem - the choice is yours - but I appreciate sometimes we have to go through many mistakes ourselves in order to learn

Funny thing is - if you remember that guy I was talking about upthread - the one from my past - he was also a professional artist, multitalented blahblahblah - very charming, lots of good qualities, very sexy, good with words and oh! so sensitive and full of emotions.
I know the appeal - but in the end, he was (probably still is) self absorbed, selfish, thinks his feelings are bigger, better and more important than everybody else’s because they can translate it into art and he is addicted to drama and suffering despite saying he wanted the opposite
I was easy going, drama free and guess what? ‘boring’ in his eyes
These types thrive in romantic toxicity
(and there was a back story about an ex too, different from your story as they didn’t meet for closure but there was a creative work involved - video with a song written for her)
He also had mum issues

I’m not advocating for that but if you wanted to do a social experiment, you could flip and start behaving bat shit crazy and you would see him burning with desire and passion for you - being the ‘nice’ girl’ will not get you far with this one - and even if you decide to wait until he goes to therapy, heal blahblah, he will start fresh with someone else and not value all the nurturance you given him

Of course this is just my guess
Wish you best of luck

OP, if you want a different life to the one you tolerated with your Ex, you are going to have to behave differently.

You excuse and tolerate very poor behaviour in men and it reads like you are repeating the pattern with.

Focus on that, not on him, if you really want a different outcome.

You cannot change the mess that he is.
You can only control yourself and how you react to it.

I think you deserve better than this.

Your real baggage is whatever is stoping you from exit*ing this relationship.
*
This feels profound.

Sorry, don't know what happened in that last post. Can't seem to edit it.

Thank you for this. That's an excellent point.

Working on a collaboration with her about love, loss, disillusionment is in no way giving him closure or allowing him to move on. He’s keeping her on the back burner incase she changes her mind. My guess she said there was no chance right now of a reconciliation so he’s settled for them working on his project together.

I would be leaving him to it and walking away.

So wait a minute. He’s created an artwork of all his lost loves?

OP, if you’re quick and you dump him, then you be part of the project too? Just wait to be asked…

Like literally what the actual fuck? It’s difficult not to see where this goes. You are just fodder for his art and he’s a self obsessed twat.

Cant believe he’s 60 something, but then some people don’t evolve and life is too short for them to reach any kind of truth or equilibrium.

It’s quite sad really. OP he’s toxic and weird. Don’t ever sleep with him again if you plan to maintain contact. Personally I would dump him.

And that thing about having someone who cares for you?

in the end OP, that must be YOU. Anyone else is an add on, not someone to fill a void.

learn to fill that void yourself.

This is a person addicted to creating drama literally and figuratively.

You OP are not oversensitive, you are simply blindsided by his constant declarations of love. This relationship will never be stable and respectful it will be filled with drama completely created by him.

I'm sorry OP that he is doing this to you, but it is all on him and nothing you have done or could change in him.

Yes. This absolutely.