He bought her diamond jewellery - Follow on thread

[Spikyseason]

I was in two minds as to whether to make a follow-on thread, but primarily I wanted to thank everyone who supported me on the previous thread. I am so grateful for such comprehensive and sound advice, and for those who were brave enough to share their own experiences with me. I do at least feel less alone.

I have an update as I spoke to DH when he got home yesterday, about everything. I’ll try to summarise.

He was still cagey about his feelings for OW. He did admit he missed her and he said he had communicated that to her since. He also said he was only human and had wanted to make sure she was ok, ‘what happened’ was his fault and he hadn’t intended to hurt her or me. He apologised for it, said it wouldn’t happen again. That ultimately he had made the decision to commit to his family and the promises he made. Usual. Wanted the opportunity to prove that.

The furthest he would admit to was that it was an emotional thing (couldn’t really deny that given the jewellery - he promised it was not a ring) but ultimately being in his children’s lives was more important, that clearly there are problems in our marriage that he should have addressed, he didn’t blame me, but overall he felt we could work on any problems between us for the sake of DC and he understood it would take a long time for me to trust him.

I do feel very much like he wants to just get back to normal asap. I also feel like he is maybe either lying to me about feelings for OW or in denial. Perhaps he thinks with time any feelings will fade. I think though if you genuinely loved someone that never goes away. I don’t suppose I’ll get any true answers on that front. I mean worst case he did and I suppose we just carry on and hope for the best and he forgets all about her, if he genuinely is committed to that?

On some level of course I worry this would never have happened if he genuinely loved me. I read something somewhere once that if someone falls in love outside of the marriage then it’s almost always irreconcilable. But if we’re both determined to make it work then I hope eventually the memory and pain will fade? I don’t know - I would welcome thoughts from those who tried but ultimately had to call it a day 😕 I don’t know if I’m kidding myself. My primary concern is DC but also aware I have a fear of change.

I was having therapy before, I’ve rebooked some sessions to help get my head straight as I don’t feel strong enough to leave yet. Part of me feels like time will test his actual commitment. Then there’s the angry part of me that doesn’t see why he should just be able to walk out on his wife and family into a shiny new life…

Anyway, I just wanted to provide a little update and thank you all again x

@Whenim63 bloody brilliant post. ‘Fuck You Fandango’!

@Spikyseason listen to Taylor Swift’s Tortured Poets Department album. Play ‘The Smallest Man Who Ever Lived, really really loud.

If I’m wrong, forgive me, but I don’t think you really love your husband and I don’t think he really loves you. You’re together because of the kids.

Children can and do, frequently, survive and thrive parental breakups. YOU matter as well and YOU deserve better.

I think you credit your DH with too much. He doesn't have a plan for the future. He's saying words, but they're completely contradictory to his actions. Sure, he's still in the house and conducting a "family life", superficially (going to work, interacting with you all, coming home every night, kids don't know a thing etc). But he spoke to OW at least once since you discovered the affair (if he's admitted to once, guaranteed it's been more than that); he's telling you things which any woman with any self-esteem would find irreparably insulting; and he has given you zero reason to believe he won't repeat the affair or pick it up. He has SAID he won't. His actions for a WHOLE YEAR and even subsequent to being found out contradict that.

In exactly the same way he wasn't thinking about you and the kids when he was conducting the affair, he hasn't thought about what your marriage or the family's future is going to be long term. He seems quite comfortable in that space. He knows he'll be fine as long as he gets what he wants, and right now he has his family intact and is figuring out how he can continue with OW/ a different affair partner, and is feeling sore that he's had to suspend/terminate the affair.

At the heart of all of this is that you don't know who you are without him and the life you currently have. You can't imagine a different life, what it would look like, don't know how you could make it happen, don't know how you would manage alone, don't have an identity outside of the current one.

By his actions, your DH is FORCING you to figure all of that out, because if you don't your identity - as you know and have said in a roundabout way - is that of a woman who is second best, penance, making-do, a necessary corollary to being present for his children. That's not a whole person. That's a function. Your identity is a function in his life.

Men who cheat on their wives do so much more than betray them. They rob them of choices, freedom, agency. They make them doubt themselves, their abilities, their self-worth. They make their wives feel small. He's put you in this position and it's unforgivable.

I would ask him for 80k in your account by the end of the month
if not I would divorce him and take a hell of a lot more than 80k 😂

I could if I wanted to but that’s not really the point…

@Spikyseason I mean this kindly and with respect for you - If he was still in love with you then he wouldn't have been capable of loving or even being with, anyone else.
When you love someone deeply, the mere suggestion of being with someone else, makes you cringe or even feel sick.

He isn't in love with you, OP. I'm so sorry.

He’s treated you like shit from what you have said not just with the ow

he’s not sorry most likely he’s just regrouping himself so that he doesn’t get caught again and will move money so he doesn’t have to pay you out

watch out for him suggesting to move to cheaper property I know a few men who have done this to get the equity from the house and keep it

never underestimate a skilled liar which is what your husband is

leave now you will be financially set most likely
even if you took a min wage job to suit working around the kids you ought get UC with that and child support and probably a mortgage free house you would be set
courts will take into account you need more as the main carer for the kids

leave when the kids are over 18 you will be mid 50s and won’t get nowhere near as much
you will have to work full time
maybe sell up and move to a smaller place as courts won’t take into account that at 18 kids still need a home

Actually I think I would ask him to deposit at least £80k in an account for each of your DC and to top it up by whatever he spent on the OW in a year every year thereafter. If you do end up divorcing him at least that wouldn't be an asset in your hands to go back in the "pot". After all he must love his DC more than the bit on the side so here's time to demonstrate that. t also means that they have a college fund/ deposit when they are older.

I'd also insist that all funds go into a joint account in future - no more him having private accounts and credit cards. Out of that you get a decent top up into a pension/retirement fund of your own given you have sacrificed your career to facilitate his. Call it a consequence of lack of trust. And ask him to start organising two date nights a month for the pair of you where he lavishes you with the sort of indulgences he lavished her - might as well get him to buck his ideas up a bit and you might get some fun and a new wardrobe and some decent jewellery out of it.

Forcing him to do something for me that he willingly did for OW will just make me feel more shit tbh.

The overwhelming majority of the advice here is sending a very clear message to build yourself up and get yourself out. You are also considering staying though, so for a bit of balance, I’d also suggest reflecting on what change you need in order for you to stay and work on it.
You describe the actions he’s taking to show his commitment as doing the ‘usual’ - couple counselling (but you say going through the motions), transparency with phone (but still contacting OW), bank statements (but who knows what else he has been squirrelling away). These are not meaningful changes.

From what you’ve said, it doesn’t sound at all like he is or has been very present in your relationship - working long hours, at the gym, on holiday doing his own thing, able to conduct a 12 month affair without you even noticing because he was physically and emotionally absent, unable to successfully have sex with you (but did get it up for the OW? I’m sorry, this must be painful if I’ve understood this correctly?). His surprise at your emotional hurt speaks volumes about how he views your partnership - you’re worrying he doesn’t love you but I wonder if he feels loved by you?

Do you like each other? Do you get on? Do you have much in common other than length of time you’ve known each other? Do you make each other laugh? Do you have a friendship?

Are you both clear and agreed on what the marital issues are that need addressing? Do YOU believe they can be resolved? Really digging into those and addressing them will be when the hard work starts and that’s when you’ll see if he’s really committed.

@Spikyseason You’re very brave to be so honest about your reason for not leaving being fear. To quote Tony Benn ‘Hope is the fuel of progress, fear is the prison in which you put yoruself’. Find your hope for yourself.

One first step could be to tell friends what he’s done, this might make if start feeling more ‘real’, and holding him to account. And at the very least you’ll know who your real friends are by their response, who will be a support to you and if /when it breaks down later down the line, or you choose to leave, it won’t be so easy for him to own the narrative and to blame you.

I’d recommend Esther Perel podcast Where Should We Begin, maybe something you could explore together as a couple?

And practically, could you look at volunteering to get a taste for different experiences and rebuild confidence? If you got a stonking divorce settlement you could be in the fortunate position of being able to choose a job you like, not for the money but for fulfilment. The world would really be your oyster.

But with due respect OP you are trying to " force " him to give up the OW.
Which actually he is obviously not prepared to do because he is still in contact with her.
But I agree totally it's not about the money as such. It's what he was prepared to do to show her he "loved" her.
Although I think his " love" is more about acquiring a woman he feels more appropriate for his status. As some other pp have said its all about Him. Every body else are just enablers for the life style he feels entitled to.

I would put your energy into you and your children and leave him to do his ever so important stuff.

You don’t need to know all the answers for your future today but you should promise yourself that you will take at least one small step every day towards rebuilding your life and you. It can be a tiny, seemingly inconsequential step, no need for you to feel overwhelmed. These steps will add up and you will build momentum until suddenly you are in a very different place.

he seems to say stuff like this but then as I said objectively does the ‘right’ things.

Objectively he's done nothing but disrespect you.

The right things are: cut off all contact; arrange marriage counselling; start reading eminent books about affair recovery and put it into practice himself; work with you to understand each of your needs in processing what's happened.

You can be doing all of the work on building yourself up, planning for the marriage to end at the same time as trying to work out if you can save it/how to save it.
Think of it like and both instead of either or if that helps you right now. But hear us when we say, plan for him to leave you.

If youre not going to leave then please use the next phase of your life to work on getting yourself physically and mentally stronger should this happen again.

Go to counselling, do some training, research jobs you could do and generally work on your self esteem and value.

Sadly, I suspect you will be here again in a year or so. Steel yourself.

And maybe speak to your single female friends. I could get quite angry at the way you regard being single as a fate far worse than being married to an adulterer and a liar, who can't get it up properly, but I won't because you are obviously in such pain.

But you might start looking about yourself and noticing that unmarried women are not rolling around in the gutter and - at a population level - are the happiest out of the 4 groups (married men, married women, unmarried men, unmarried women). I rather gather that it's married women who are the least happy ... statistically speaking and at a population level.

So maybe start to rethink the assumption that a single life is bound to lead you to destruction. You say divorce turned your mother into an alcoholic? But are you your mother? Do you have a problem with alcohol now? And so on.

It's tough, sometimes, questioning those shibboleths which seem to define us. But the liberation is extraordinary.

And you won't have to worry about money. As a single woman, you'll be in a far better position than many never married women at your age.

My intention wasn’t to cause any offence at all. I feel it’s entirely possible for women to be single and happy. My sister’s DH cheated, she left him and after a long and very tough period, she is doing a lot better. I know it can happen. I just don’t believe it will happen for me.

I know I need to work on addressing that and why I feel like it’s so out of reach.

Very much agree with @BySnappyKoala

He was surprised you were bothered about the affair - he thought it was very obvious the relationship had run its course. Likely he’s been having affairs for years but this one stuck.

Maybe thought you’d chosen to turn a blind eye.

If you’re honest I think you know it’s done. Hard to face I know. Especially if you’ve been in denial for a long time.

I couldn’t come back from: a year long relationship, diamond jewellery, saying she’s his more his type, not being able to perform with you, all the hours avoiding your company, almost mocking you for caring as if it’s so obvious, still telling her he misses her.

He probably is taken back that you are reacting fairly calmly. But don’t for one second think he isn’t planning to make sure you get the absolute minimum if you divorce him. A man with £80k spare a year will know how to hide money.

If you ask for a divorce you’ll be surprised how quickly he makes an offer once his threats of kicking you out don’t scare you off. Because he will already have done all the calculations.

If you can OP, take a day or two away soon to plan the next steps for you.

💐

Do you already drink quite a lot OP? Is that why you think you may become alcoholic?

Did you catch him out OP or did he confess initially?

I caught him out, I don’t think he ever would have confessed.

Probably more since all this happened but I wouldn’t say I had a problem. I am aware of it and and know there may be potential hereditary factors at play.

Wrong side of 40 here too. Two kids (older than yours but they were both still at home when I divorced). I was terrified too. Marriage was "for life" and I didn't want to be alone. But I figured that the wrong side of 40 was better than the wrong side of 50. That I was wasting my almost best years. That I was setting an example to my kids that I would never want them to follow. That being alone would be soooo much better than rotting in a shitty mariage. Financially it is hard (but you have nothing to worry about there) but on my plus side I had a full time job.

Exh refused to have the kids for half the holidays (he has them for four weeks in a year and every other weekend) basically to try and stop me getting on with my life 😅 but despite this I thrived and everyone noticed. I'm not that good looking, rather quirky, very much a marmite girl, but despite this I had a six month relationship, followed by a year getting my shit together, repairing myself, then a six month sex spree (wasn't actively looking for brief relationships but what the hell.) And now I've met a man I really like, and it looks promising. I had already had my kids so I wasn't needing to race into finding "the one" and yes, I do prefer being in a relationship to being alone, but I much much prefer being alone to being in the crap marriage I was in. And even though I'm happy in the new relationship I still crave my alone time which I grew to love during that year, the weekends when the kids were at their dad's and I could please myself.

I have a friend who is 10 years older than me. Her husband left her when she was my age, she was left with three kids, debts and a business to run. She is amazing, and happy and strong now. She has never remarried or looked for another relationship. I would definitely see her life as more desirable than settling for a weak coward of a man who saw me as a brood mare.

I would not stand for being "the penance" OP. He's not doing you any good at all, hanging around miserably having punishment sex. That's grim.
He is spineless for staying with you when he loves someone else. It sounds like he's hardly there for the kids anyway, so their day to day may not be that different if he lived elsewhere? Assuming you could both be gracious about things.
Have you got anything in your life that's for yourself? Not child or home related, and not piggybacking on your husband's status. You're a perfectly valid human without him.
He's treating your marriage like a prison sentence. I could not stand that. He seems to have no respect for you as a person, aside from your mother role.
If you were single would you value your small business more, does it seem insignificant because you are comparing it to his career and earnings? You're not seeing yourself as an individual.
If you do want to split in due course, you'll perhaps get a more favourable divorce settlement the younger the children are?

Wasn’t one of those relationships with someone else’s husband? (Going by your comment on the previous thread…)

You're the wrong side of 40.

Better that than the wrong side of 50.