He bought her diamond jewellery - Follow on thread

[Spikyseason]

I was in two minds as to whether to make a follow-on thread, but primarily I wanted to thank everyone who supported me on the previous thread. I am so grateful for such comprehensive and sound advice, and for those who were brave enough to share their own experiences with me. I do at least feel less alone.

I have an update as I spoke to DH when he got home yesterday, about everything. I’ll try to summarise.

He was still cagey about his feelings for OW. He did admit he missed her and he said he had communicated that to her since. He also said he was only human and had wanted to make sure she was ok, ‘what happened’ was his fault and he hadn’t intended to hurt her or me. He apologised for it, said it wouldn’t happen again. That ultimately he had made the decision to commit to his family and the promises he made. Usual. Wanted the opportunity to prove that.

The furthest he would admit to was that it was an emotional thing (couldn’t really deny that given the jewellery - he promised it was not a ring) but ultimately being in his children’s lives was more important, that clearly there are problems in our marriage that he should have addressed, he didn’t blame me, but overall he felt we could work on any problems between us for the sake of DC and he understood it would take a long time for me to trust him.

I do feel very much like he wants to just get back to normal asap. I also feel like he is maybe either lying to me about feelings for OW or in denial. Perhaps he thinks with time any feelings will fade. I think though if you genuinely loved someone that never goes away. I don’t suppose I’ll get any true answers on that front. I mean worst case he did and I suppose we just carry on and hope for the best and he forgets all about her, if he genuinely is committed to that?

On some level of course I worry this would never have happened if he genuinely loved me. I read something somewhere once that if someone falls in love outside of the marriage then it’s almost always irreconcilable. But if we’re both determined to make it work then I hope eventually the memory and pain will fade? I don’t know - I would welcome thoughts from those who tried but ultimately had to call it a day 😕 I don’t know if I’m kidding myself. My primary concern is DC but also aware I have a fear of change.

I was having therapy before, I’ve rebooked some sessions to help get my head straight as I don’t feel strong enough to leave yet. Part of me feels like time will test his actual commitment. Then there’s the angry part of me that doesn’t see why he should just be able to walk out on his wife and family into a shiny new life…

Anyway, I just wanted to provide a little update and thank you all again x

That's so hurtful Spikey.
He's probably had to have persuaded himself that you wouldn't be bothered, so that he can dismiss any guilt he might have felt. It's a ludicrous stance to take, since it is hard to imagine that anyone wouldn't be "bothered" by the situation.

Sounds like he's grown into a much more shallow/selfish person than the one you first knew. He clearly has no trouble at all dismissing the inconvenient feelings of others.

Maybe I am just suspicious minded but how do you know he doesn’t leave his phone at office or gym & go to see his OW. Or maybe she meets him at his office or gym? In the least he could still be having video calls with her

The problem with him saying he was surprised you were so bothered does bring up other issues.

It does suggest that your marriage is rather stale perhaps? I asked you way back on this thread if you still loved him, accepting it’s a difficult answer under these circumstances. You seem more scared of being alone than anything else. If you were being brutally honest do you think your marriage is / was perhaps a little stale PRIOR to this?

i know you say he works late and you’re in bed when he gets home but what type of times are you talking about? Are you just ships that pass in the night?

Again if you’re brutally honest did you grow apart. I’m only asking to try and help you understand whether you’re clinging onto the security blanket that you know, or genuinely wanting to find a pathway through this that’s not a massive compromise and challenge for you both.

Sometimes people do simply grow apart even with children. You deserve a better future not one full of resentment and anger and frustration.

@friendlycat I am sure up thread or maybe in a PP, OP said they hadn’t been close for some time - a couple of years I think. He was working/away a lot. No date nights etc. So he’s using that as an excuse to say, ‘ I didn’t think you’d be that bothered’ (subtext we have had a mostly platonic and unromantic relationship for years so what did you expect?). Sigh.

@friendlycat I’m not sure about this. The OPs husband has form for being manipulative - concealing an affair for a year. He has shown no interest in the OPs feelings, in such a blatant way e.g. saying to the OW how she deserves better - infront of his wife! Therefore him stating he was ‘surprised’ OP was bothered feels like another manipulation to me, a way of subtlety blaming the OP - she’s so unbothered by him, doesn’t give him enough attention, too focused on the kids etc it’s no wonder he looked elsewhere and spend 80k on another woman. It’s total rubbish, any issues he could and should have addressed BEFORE making the hundreds / thousands of decisions to betray his wife again and again. While I think it is important that OP examines her reasons for wanting to stay with him (although it sounds like this is shifting) she needs to be completely clear that none of this is her fault. I actually think it’s disgraceful that he claimed she wouldn’t be bothered, it’s clear he cannot be bothered with her feelings at all.

Thank you - my general feeling is it normally takes two people to break a marriage with abuse being the exception and I see how cheating is akin to abuse. If not just straight abusive!
I took that comment as annoyance that I had an emotional reaction at all, like it was all a big inconvenience to him, not blaming me for what he did but annoyed he had to stop, annoyed the situation was so stressful. Upset he had to stop seeing OW. Annoyed he had to stay elsewhere in the house (we have an annexe). For a few months!

I also mention this not to drip feed, but because I wanted to focus more on the recent affair, but he also confessed to a one night stand before we even got married - only when I discovered the recent OW. He said it was ‘nerves’ but honestly sometimes it feels like this man never even wanted to marry me at all. Regardless of how much ‘effort’ I had put in subsequently. So it enraged me he did this and brought babies in the world when it’s like he didn’t even want any of it.

it feels like this man never even wanted to marry me at all.

My ex is extremely passive (aggressive) and his primary objective is to look good to the world. He won’t end relationships, he makes them intolerable for the other person. He won’t say what he does want but you bloody know it if it’s what he doesn’t want. I think he has traits of covert narcissism. Sounds rather like your H. You can never win with these people, never.

He really is scum.
So he has been unfaithful multiple times.
I certainly wouldn't be keeping this quiet.

He's a cheap cheater.

I would be very suspicious about this new found interest in the gym. Is the OW a member? Does he meet her first and then avail himself of the facilities and return home freshly showered and relaxed?

No the OW lives nowhere near here… Gym probably to maintain his images and get away from me when he isn’t at work!

He has cheated on girlfriends before me too instead of just ending it. I put it down to him being young but clearly it’s a pattern. Covert narcs are the worst IMO. Harder to spot because they come across as so ‘nice’ and self sacrificing.

@Spikyseason I really feel for you, it must be horrendous trying to make sense of his incongruent and bizarre behaviour. Having a ONS due to ‘nerves’ is a new one for me, is there anything this man can take personal responsibility for?! How fortunate he was to meet someone such as yourself, and how foolish to not treat you with the care and thought you so deserve. His ability to compartmentalise to such an extent is quite concerning, as is his focus on trying to save face/control the narrative/appear the devoted family man. I don’t say this easily but I’m getting strong narcissistic vibes (I work in this field). Can he move back into the annex? You really need your own space and time to think. It has been such a terrible time for you and you are so strong. You are worth so much more than how he has treated you. Please believe this.

I would say this is probably accurate.

I have been the OW (not proud, not gloating, stating fact for clarity) and when he was trying to make it work with his wife (which was for the kids) he spent every moment he could out running or exercising. It wasn't about his image or looking good, he just didn't want to be in the house.

I think there is a connection between narcissism and the ability to cheat. My ExH quite often challenged my feelings: ‘what, you are STILL upset about XYZ’ = horrifying behaviour towards me. Like you say, my normal emotional reaction was painted as a complete outlandish inconvenience. Now that I have distance, I can see my ExHs stereotype covert narcissistic behaviour. He portrayed the perfect husband outside, but his outward facing performance was never quite the same when alone with me. but it made me gloss over a lot of his bad behaviour: it must be my mistake, right, because everyone is always telling me how brilliant he is and how lucky I am. Men like this use outward facing behaviour - impression management- like a saving account. they accumulate enough 'proof' from the outside world that they are great partners, so when they treat you badly, it surely is all in your head.

Great comment frim @Whatachliche

Also, spread questionable things about your character, oh so carefully, so people feel sorry for them and are firmly on their side.

@Spikyseason

There are men who believe that cheating is actually part of being married. I think of it as 'Don Draper Syndrome'. Remember that he, too, couldn't understand why Betty was so upset when she realized he was a cheat. Why should she be upset? After all, he provided a nice home and a nice life with all the 'luxuries' that she could want. He was 'discreet' in his cheating. He was gobsmacked when she filed for divorce.

Men like that feel it's perfectly OK to cheat as long as they keep that a separate part of their life so as not to cause unhappiness to their wives and disruption to their children. So as long as they don't get caught all is well in their world. When they DO get caught, they become angry at their wives for disrupting what they believe is 'the natural order of things'.

DH worked with a man like that, but he cheated using escorts. He felt that as long as he paid for it, it wasn't cheating.

Everything you have posted about the specimen you're married to just makes me wonder what an earth his good qualities are...?
You need to stop being so down on yourself and start bigging yourself up. I'm also the wrong side of 40 with two kids in tow-I have no doubt that I could attract men if I split with DH, I'm different to you though in the sense I'd happily be alone-like fuck I could be arsed with someone else's bullshit again 🤣
Please also stop referring to him as 'D'H-he isn't, at all.
Keep yourself busy, keep avoiding him and get through Christmas by thinking this time next year I'll be rid of this arsehole.

He does have good qualities, otherwise I wouldn’t have married him. That’s why it’s so hard. He can be kind, thoughtful, generous. He is capable of empathy. He does also have a strong sense of duty, which is why I can’t help but feel that was the main reason he stayed.
I think he feels very guilty for what he’s done but I also think he’s annoyed he got caught. So probably not genuine remorse.

OP, I was married to a very emotionally abusive man, and I grieved for the marriage for a long time, precisely because of what you said - all the times he was lovely, and all the memories of the good times. I felt such a deep sadness for a long time, and still do sometimes.

I think it’s best to judge the suitability of the marriage on its bad times though, not its good times. Mine made me realise that anyone who creates a bad marriage by doing the things that have been done to us is actually much more of an arsehole than someone who’s just out-and-out horrible. That’s easy to walk away from. But people who have been/who are both horrible and lovely to you are the worst, with the utter head-fuck they create.

If your H was so into duty, he wouldn’t have done the things he did.

For me, I’m getting older and can no longer cope with his explosive anger issues, instability, frequent long periods of him not speaking to me for no reason, pressure to lose weight and wear skirts, all the things.

But that means I lose all the loving and good things about the marriage too.

So I think, thanks for that. Thanks for giving with one hand and taking away with the other. And I realised that THAT is what’s truly abusive and truly shitty. With an enemy, you know where you stand. But with someone who’s part-enemy part-life partner, you’re sucked in and spat out, over and over.

And so it doesn’t matter two hoots about the good times or his good qualities. They’re completely irrelevant, because he’ll make you suffer again, and so you have to say goodbye to the good with the bad. And that’s hard.

I hope my story helps you.

And shame on them. SHAME on them.

This is so powerful and so insightful.

I think the nuance is lost on so many people that of course these men have lovely qualities otherwise there is no dilemma, no threads, just exit stage left!

I’m so sorry you’ve experienced this. I often liken it to bending a piece of metal, first one way, the next until it eventually breaks. If someone was horrible all the time it would make it so much easier.

the thing is he was very good at making everything seem fine, until clearly the strain of not being with her made me realise something was up. But the ONS I had no idea, literally able to put it out of his mind and then stand at an altar and marry me.

horrific.

It is. There is a lack of true values and integrity. He has masqueraded as having strong values but he has proven that he is either extremely weak willed or never had those values in the first place. There is such a misalignment with you there OP and I can understand why you are so floored by what has come to light. The confusion creates a fog where it is so hard to see clearly, and even have clarity of thought. But the fog will lift. You will see clearly again. It is better to know the bitter truth than live a lie - especially when he has put your health at risk many times by having unprotected sex. He has not shown any commitment to the vows he made. His sense of duty seems to be rooted in self preservation and saving face. He may well have 80k to spend on some random woman but he is morally bankrupt.

Yes, that is indeed horrific, Spiky. I am so sorry. You must be wondering who the hell you married by now.

It’s also odd that he even told you now. What’s the point? The only effect is to hurt you more, for absolutely no reason.

Diamond Lil can have him.

Well that was what was weird he confessed to all this stuff but the not about the earrings and not about his feelings for her. Why? It really makes no sense.