DH and I are foul to one another

[tiredsince2020]

I don’t know if anyone else experiences this, but far from being the best version of myself around DH I become irritable, snappy, defensive, sarcastic and passive aggressive, and I feel he’s much the same to me.

We have a lot of pressures on us as a family. We have two very young children (young toddler and preschool stage), I work three days a week, DH is full time but because his job does take him away sometimes and is a long commute he isn’t around much during the week. I feel he isn’t very supportive. For example yesterday I took both children out of the house in the morning to a church event, when I came home the house was still a tip. I didn’t expect a deep clean or anything but just a quick tidy of toys would have been good. I feel all the house stuff falls on me and it’s impossible to keep on top of. As a result the state of the house is a factor in everyone’s stress levels. But no sooner is it immaculate and gleaming than it is trashed.

I don’t feel he’s very supportive with the children - he does love them, but he’s happy to leave the kind of day to day mechanics to me and if we ever disagree on something it often doesn’t get addressed properly, meaning it just kind of festers.

I am sure there’s things he isn’t happy about with me too. But it comes out in these horrible ways. I know people will say to talk it out but I am not sure how. Mostly it I try to talk to him about something serious it ends up being my fault somehow or he just dismisses it.

I know I’ve painted him in a bad light here and honestly I was ready to tell him I wanted to end the marriage yesterday, and that might still happen but I really, really don’t want it to. Not for me but the children.

OP, you are so not alone. I felt like you when DC were small. I hope you and your DH can both hold on and realise that it is a combination of sleep deprivation, exhaustion from mental and physical overload, Groundhog Day relentlessness of small DC that is making you both so ratty.

You say the new house has lots of small rooms. Can you turn that to your advantage by making one of them 100% child free. Make it calm and decluttered - a place you can both relax in the evening. Keep it locked during the day so DC can't get in there.

Have a big toy box and every evening do a tidy up with DC. I used to turn it into a game 'Bet you can't put all these toys in the box before the timer goes off/this song ends!' Apart from that, only tidy toys if they are a hazard - on the stairs or in hallways. And make as much use as you can of activities outside the home. I used to try and stay away from home as much as possible just to keep the mess levels down. Messy Church and playgroups for sticky craft and painting, soft play and parks - even in bad weather - to let off steam. Coming home signals bathtime, PJs, TV.

Try and make day to day life a tiny bit more fun. Make very easy dinners you know DC will eat that take 5 mins to prep and 5 to clean up - pasta and pesto, tray bake chicken, that sort of thing. Watch comedies with DH at night - ones that make both of you laugh. Better to sit in a room strewn with toys and cackle at a funny show that in a room tidied through gritted teeth while you both seethe with exhaustion and resentment.

Rather than a cleaner, book a babysitter once a week and go out with your DH to do something you enjoy. We stopped going fro drinks or dinner as we'd just stare sulkily and exhausted at each other. Go to a film, a comedy improv night, a gig - some new shared experience you can both enjoy.

When you find yourself sniping, try and back off, and notice a few good things DH does - comment on them, thank him if he's done something you take for granted like filling the car with petrol or mending a loose door handle or mowing the lawn. It may feel a bit one-sided at first but the old cliche of being the change you want to see in the world applies. Be respectful and appreciative of him and that paves the way for him to be the same for you.

This time will pass and all the effort you both make to have fin together as a family and as a couple will pay off once life gets easier.

B)s are on your team. So are a)s, just less hardcore about it.

If your husband was an a), you could be one too and everything would still get done. You'd also feel happy and supported by one another as you're working towards the same goal (happy kids and functional household).

But because he's not an a), you have to be a b). You're wearing yourself out doing twice as much without feeling like the goal is shared and valued.

Of course it's demoralising.

you woulnt be togthher if you didnnt have dc-i think that says it all

dont stay together beause of chilren its never the answer

I hope you and your DH can both hold on and realise that it is a combination of sleep deprivation, exhaustion from mental and physical overload, Groundhog Day relentlessness of small DC that is making you both so ratty.

Based on what OP is saying though, her DH isn't exhausted and unhappy. He's sjust cruising along doing the bare minimum and prioritising himself and his needs/wants to the exclusion of OP and their DC.

You are totally off your rocker, off the point and off this planet!

What a lot of total crap nonsense

What exactly ISN'T selfish about her husband?

Where is he struggling, exactly?

She loses salary, independence and her pension

Can you say-

I am so unhappy, I don’t know if this is our time to juts heads down and buckle up but I am at breaking point. How do you feel?

and then wait for his reply, a true husband would listen and want to know more?

But you’re missing the leverage in a conversation. If he won’t fill in the gaps with home/childcare, what happens if the OP has no other choice but to drop her work hours? I’d be interested to know how that conversation would go.

We are very similar in that we both have a toddler , pre-school child and he works full-time and I work 3days per week.

Yes it's hard, overwhelming and stressful but me and my H rarely ever argue. We work well as a team and communicate together to come up with solutions when we are struggling.

Our house is a mess and are life is very disorganised ATM but I prioritise spending quality time most evenings with H. I think having this downtime together is what keeps us being nice to each other and it gets me through the day as I look forward to it.

Personally I'd be taking the remote control/running shoes/whatever will hit home hostage until the house was minimally clean and tidy. If he behaves like a lazy teenager, I'd treat him that way.

The thread is basically just a bossy how to clean your house one and is best hidden. The kettle and the tumble drier have packed in so I give up. No sheets for tonight but I don’t gaf.

It's not about the housework! Even if they outsource everything, it does change the issue. The issue being the DH's attitude, which is causing the OP to feel resentment, which is causing her to have an attitude towards him and her child.

*doesn't change the issue

I didn't see that.

I saw a lot of women posting (including me) who've been where you are.

Some years ago I disclosed to a few older female friends that I was thinking of divorce. One of them told me she'd nearly done the same when her DC were at that age. Another one had actually booted her husband out at that stage.

Both couples are now in their 60s, still/back together and ostensibly pretty happy. Their houses are tidy!

The other two are long time single mums and had a very clear eyed view of pros and cons. Neither has chosen to invite a man back into their lives permanently.

You're not wrong but while I certainly sympathise with you, the only things that are really going to change your DH are an almighty kick up the arse or a personality transplant.

He is lazy. I'm quite lazy too fwiw. But he gets away with it because he's a man and you are default. I'm default too. Most women are. I've had to shape up and take responsibility because otherwise my kids will suffer. I don't enjoy it and it's fucking depressing.

You're quite apparently not a bad-tempered woman.

You're just tired and pissed off.

Small children are HARD.

If you're together, it's a shruggy-
Shouldered laugh, 'How shit is this?' thing.

If your apparent life-partner is a lazy fucker domestically, it's resentment × 100.

Ugh.

& I can't be arsed with the 'upbringing' idea.

My husband had pretty much the shitty-ist upbringing you could imagine. Dead mother, horrible step-father, absent father (really absent, continents absent, popped up occasionally and cried about what a shit father he was, fuck off divvy).

My husband is so welcomed into my large & loving family. They adore him.

We all need love.

But my husband is a really good person despite his terrible 'father figures'

His dad took him to a 'house of ill repute' when he was 16, after not seeing him for years, he thought that would be a good bonding experience.

My husband said no, and stood outside. He stood outside, whilst his 'Dad' got serviced.

My husband has always tried to be good. Life wasn't kind to him when he was young, but he knew how to be a good man.

He's a good man. Men know how to be good. I guess sometimes they can't be arsed because it's much easier to be a bad man.

My Dad's a Good Man, he's got scars all over his chest because his father wasn't a Good Man.

My Dad is a good man. He taught me about good men. My Dad is amazing. Love him, he was a very engaged father and still is.

Don't accept shitty men.

(Absolutely not blaming women for shit men, Men's business is their own).

@tiredsince2020
You sound stressed and full of resentment and he sounds like he's choosing to disengage, or feels like he can't do anything right so he's stopped doing anything at all. You've become the stressed mum/ nagging wife (basically the adult) and he's become a passive man-child that you're having to manage alongside the kids.

Your relationship needs help and you have to start feeling like you are on the same team, not battling each other. I know you said couples therapy wasn't an option but perhaps listen to this (not just this episode, this is a very common issue that comes up several times in the series) and see if any if it resonates;

Https://www.estherperel.com/podcasts/love-the-child-not-the-father

I have had similiar problems with DH over the years (ignoring housework, not tending to children etc) but tbf to him when I speak up about my feelings he does make the effort. And I'm certainly not perfect either - I can be a passive aggressive moody bitch.

I know how frustrating it is when they just step over mess and ignore dishes, knowing how it makes you feel. It's like they're ignoring your feelings. But I am also guilty of not asking for enough help because the level of micro management needed for basic household tasks is frustrating.

If I were you I would sit him down and say something like "I don't want this to come across as nagging/having a go and you are also free to point out anything I've been doing that frustrates you, but this is how I feel and if we don't sort this out I don't think our marriage will survive".

Read the OP's posts.

Please

I guess perhaps you either have to argue through it to come to some sort of truce
Or you down tools, go to a hotel and leave him alone for a weekend with kids to try and hammer the point in. Prople like to suggest this and I've never tried it, however I do feel like this can backfire and you'll come back to a tip. Then what do you do?!
Or take yourself and kids to your parents and force the issue
Or perhaps bring up possibly going full time if he looks for a job more local or with less travelling time... or more travelling if you want him out the house as a solution !!!

Obviously it's annoying to have to treat your dh like a child and micromanage him, but if he follows instructions without sniping then perhaps the easiest way is to just bark orders at him until the kids are both in school

Once you get more sleep and more time to yourself it will be easier to get a handle on things and your relationship
Perhaps just completely ignore him once he starts being sarcy or nasty. A bit of conditioning, only reward good behaviour so if he talks nicely you will too

And berating fixes it, does it?

No.

This is the one thing that OP seems to be completely glossing over in fairness, there's nothing to read in OPs posts which covers this because she is ignoring everyone who has recommended this approach to evening out the household responsibilities.

We have a similar setup at home, we each have chores we take care of, chores we share, and everything else we mix and match, if he doesn't do his chores, I don't automatically do them unless he has had to spend time doing something else which contributes to the household, in which case we swap and change, I certainly wouldn't be taking up his slack to let him sit on his arse and watch me struggle.

Some of OPs responses about him 'not doing things properly, even if she does ask him' or 'wanting him to intervene without seemingly asking/telling him to' or 'wanting him to admit he is not helping' and 'him leaving everything me', coupled with the fact that they argue if they ever discuss it, all points to the fact that there is a massive communication problem in their relationship, and advice of re-distributing the household responsibilities in a no-nonsense 'this needs doing' manner have been met with complete radio silence.

I’m not ignoring it sandy, I just don’t really understand (meant genuinely) why people keep pushing it when I’ve clearly (I think anyway!) explained that attempts to talk don’t help and actually make things worse.

Also, it fixates solely on the housework and that isn’t really just what I’m about here. I don’t need or want anyone to start endlessly scrubbing floors; I just need a bit of consideration: put things in the bin, load the dishwasher, even empty it.

So I say DHs job is to empty the dishwasher and he doesn’t do it, what then? Remind him that it’s his job … yes OK, except if he’s at work then that fails doesn’t it? So before you know it you are back at square one.

I need you to understand I didn’t start the thread to focus on solutions. It was more a wail of despair. I am an intelligent and educated woman and I am reduced to being practically in tears because I have no life outside of cleaning, cooking, caring for children and my own job.

The thing is, those advising drawing up lists and having discussions to achieve a harmonious household have clearly never lived with someone who won't do his share automatically, or digs his heels in and does even less if that's possible when asked to help out.