DH and I are foul to one another

[tiredsince2020]

I don’t know if anyone else experiences this, but far from being the best version of myself around DH I become irritable, snappy, defensive, sarcastic and passive aggressive, and I feel he’s much the same to me.

We have a lot of pressures on us as a family. We have two very young children (young toddler and preschool stage), I work three days a week, DH is full time but because his job does take him away sometimes and is a long commute he isn’t around much during the week. I feel he isn’t very supportive. For example yesterday I took both children out of the house in the morning to a church event, when I came home the house was still a tip. I didn’t expect a deep clean or anything but just a quick tidy of toys would have been good. I feel all the house stuff falls on me and it’s impossible to keep on top of. As a result the state of the house is a factor in everyone’s stress levels. But no sooner is it immaculate and gleaming than it is trashed.

I don’t feel he’s very supportive with the children - he does love them, but he’s happy to leave the kind of day to day mechanics to me and if we ever disagree on something it often doesn’t get addressed properly, meaning it just kind of festers.

I am sure there’s things he isn’t happy about with me too. But it comes out in these horrible ways. I know people will say to talk it out but I am not sure how. Mostly it I try to talk to him about something serious it ends up being my fault somehow or he just dismisses it.

I know I’ve painted him in a bad light here and honestly I was ready to tell him I wanted to end the marriage yesterday, and that might still happen but I really, really don’t want it to. Not for me but the children.

In our case FIL is a lot better than either of his sons are in this regard, so go figure.

There was a poster on here a week or so ago. Very similar to you. Basically, a complete waste of space DH and she was exhausted and overwhelmed. But seemed to think there was no solution whatsoever. That this is just life. She has to just suck it up. Lke you, she (understandably) didn't want a list of tasks or tips to make domestic chores easier. Like you, she felt that there was zero point in talking to her H because he wasn't going to agree or change. I think, that like you, she was just looking for solidarity from people who get it.

The problem is that even when we get it, many of us can see that there's a much bigger, deeper problem. You are in a situation where the man you are married to, have children with, is so completely closed off to you that even when you're on your knees, you cannot ask or expect any help oro support from him. He is completely oblivious to your pain and does not care. And you seem to feel like you have to just suck this up.

I felt bad for the woman last week and I feel bad for you. I wish that men like this weren't so horrendously common.

I could’ve written this, down to the move regret. He seems unhappy and it’s manifesting as moodiness and short words to me. We have a young baby and preschooler and if they’re both crying it’s on me. Because the preschooler “prefers me” (no shit, I’ve always dealt with the tears) and the baby “needs me”. Yeah he might need a feed but literally any other adult would make a more concentrated effort to soothe him.

What someone said upthread about being furious over small things really resonated. I get angry, he gets defensive then angry and somehow everything is my fault. I am too tired to think clearly and he argues me into a corner so he’s “right”.

I know we’re better on more sleep. But the reality is I’m doing all the nights while he gets the option of checking out, and the resentment cuts deep. I don’t know how to get past it because our talks also degenerate into further rows. It basically needs us to both get over the argument and agree to wipe the slate clean, but the residue of the row is always there.

To be fair mine does clean up and tidy, but just the weight of being solely responsible for the children is absolutely crushing. And it’s made so much more evident when friends come by and are so helpful without being asked.

I don’t know what the solution is but I feel for you and I think this is so common for so many women. For me it’s a case of pushing through this part but I don’t know if I can handle feeling unliked in my own home. I suppose he would say the same.

@Phineyj honestly I have said this a few times. It isn’t that he is a slob as such and it isn’t the housework that’s really driving my post. That’s why - sorry - I’m getting so fed up with the bossy posts telling me what to do and how to do it.

When I’m with DH I become this snappy, bad tempered, sarcastic, and sometimes quite mean person. It isn’t just with him either. I’ve noticed I have very little tolerance for my older child in particular and although I mostly quash this I know it does seep out at the sides. It’s borne from having way too much to do. And some of that’s house stuff but really it’s a combination of housework, children, my own job and generally life.

Leaving DHs socks to pile up makes no difference to that. I don’t know what the answer is here. I wish I did. I do know I’ll feel better when things are in some sort of order so that’s my plan for today even though I would really do with a nap.

@MrSeptember how is that helpful in any way, u less you’re trying to say the poster is me? It isn’t and wasn’t, but I think enough people here have said that they have a similar set up to know it hasn’t a unique problem.

i really do recognise all of this.

If you didn’t have children, would you still be together?

No.

how is that helpful in any way, u less you’re trying to say the poster is me? It isn’t and wasn’t, but I think enough people here have said that they have a similar set up to know it hasn’t a unique problem.

I wasn't trying to have a go at you - I'm sorry if it seemed that way. The point I was making is that you are NOT alone. And it's frustrating, yes, for some of us from the outside to see women like you who are so ground down by these men who can't be bothered to ever think about anytone else that they feel completely trapped and hopeless. But there are lots of women like you so I understand why you sometimes feel you just want to vent.

@tiredsince2020
OP
Apologies haven't read the full thread but have read all your posts.
I know everyone's giving you advice about housekeeping/cleaning/ tidying etc...which is not what you want.

And you said that as soon as a room is cleaned / tidied it reverts back quickly.

Can you try address it from the other end as such?
That is, get /train your children to make less mess, clean up after themselves. I know it sounds impossible but it was much more the case in older generations, and it is much more the case in other countries/cultures. It would mean being more uncompromising with them on this, moving somewhat on the gentle to authoritarian parenting axis.

If they're really too small for any of that, putting them in a playpen for some of the time to reduce them mess. I know that would have its own downsides, but the point is to accept those downsides - to give the cleanliness/ tidyness higher priority.

Ugh see - more shit for me to do basically isn’t it? And honestly my relationship with DS is on a knife edge as it is. It is not just toys. I do get unbelievably fed up of kids reaping toys round the house and discarding them in random places but it is small fry.

Actually to take this further, I suspect a friend of mine could have written this post 2 years ago. I remember feeling so bad for her - her life seemed so miserable bcause she was propping up her stressed DH who had MH issues.

A few months ago he announced it was over. He stayed in the house for 2 months, during which he met someone else (supposedly) and so when he did finally move out, he moved straight in with her. My poor friend had been doign all the work to try improve things, accepted that she couldn't ask him to step up to do more because he just wouldn't and it caused arguments etc... and then he left.

Incidentaly, her children barely notice the difference and while she's still struggling she acknowledges that as she was operating as a single person anyway, life is atually a bit easier.

I was you a year ago and there is hope.

I would fully recommend doing couples therapy.

We have just wrapped up our sessions after a year of working really hard to sort our relationship issues out.

Before the therapy I was so deeply unhappy with how we had both become towards each other. I had so much contempt for him and it was impossible to talk to him about my needs or feelings without a really upsetting bout of horrible arguments. In the end I had given up.

I was ready to divorce him as I was exhausted by our lives as they were but I thought that therapy as a last ditch attempt to help us manage a separation in a constructive way for us and our daughter. I didn’t dare dream that we’d actually fall back in love again and gain a lot of respect for each others limitations and triggers.

The ups and downs as we’ve got to grips with this new way of relating have been savage at times and sometimes it’s been even more painful when we have argued because we’ve got closer and therefore more vulnerable to each other.

We learnt so much about safe ways of communicating with each other, how to top up our bank account of good feeling, how to properly listen to each other and how to calm down if/ when triggered.

We have gained so much understanding about each other. It’s really worth it even if just to get support to manage a positive ending for the sake of your kids.

You mention your mum also being fraught and snappy - and that speaking to your husband is making it worse. What about going to therapy yourself to work through how you feel about motherhood, your partner, your job…having an opportunity to be heard and work through your own feelings.

I’ve been where you were when my children were small. Things are much better now and I feel like we have a better balance. Therapy I had on my own really helped me get there.

It does sound like any solution will need to come from you, yes.

I know that's not what you want to hear!

Do you think it's worth checking on your health though? Over the decade since I became a mum, I had very low iron at one point, very low vitamin D at another and most recently perimenopause during which I became gluten intolerant.

The first three at least are really common and more or less easily addressed with supplements/HRT.

All three of these episodes made me feel rotten, and stabby towards DH. It didn't create problems as such but meant I didn't have any energy to solve them.

My recommendation is to give DH something to be in charge of. For us it's the bathroom - it is entirely my husband's responsibility. If it's in need of a clean that is nothing to do with me.

What's good about it is that it doesn't interfere with the flow of normal life (unlike if the dishwasher doesn't get emptied then I can't re-fill it).

He can do it when he gets around to it.

I don't want to add to the practical list of 'you should do this' but there are resources that can help with this:

https://www.warwickshire.gov.uk/family-relationships-1/practitioner-toolkit-resources

Parental conflict is such a widespread issue that the DWP and DHSC has ploughed millions into training and resources to help families struggling with it. Wonder if reading through the tools might help a bit?

It sounds to me like a fairly standard rough time with small children. Both knackered and irritable. Sounds sexist, but is commonly the case, woman has adapted and adjusted better to parenting/house than man, therefore conflict.

This is perfectly salvageable in the long term imo.
me and DH could happily have killed eachother when our kids were baby/toddler (now adult).

Can we reframe that to NEEDS doing, not WANTS doing?

It's not her choosing it's needing to live in a clean home

@tiredsince2020 op, from your first post you outline that both of you behave in these negative ways to each other. It really sounds like there is a huge amount of resentment (on both sides) building up. It can be very difficult to move forwards from a position of deep resentment, as communication can be really fraught.

One solution is obviously to cut your losses with him - separate / divorce etc etc. That’s not an easy (or cheap) option. There are pros and cons of staying or going.

Marriage / parenthood is bloody difficult. There are very very testing times in all relationships, either to do with parenting, or the relationship during periods of change. Add dc that require extra support (eg SEN) or MH / SEN / undiagnosed SEN in partners and it can feel impossible and toxic (in my experience).

In one post you mention your dh leaving your daughter crying as you are in the house. To me, that speaks of massive resentment / spite / an attitude that is very ‘tit for tat’ or even ‘do the opposite thing that I have been told to just to show the other person’ from your husband. It is not a mature response (from him) to a difficult situation.

I suppose it is up to you how you move forward with this. If nothing changes, I can see that things would escalate, and maybe the scenario of splitting up would become inevitable.

Change could be facilitated through two different ways. One would be pragmatic and practical changes to give you both some breathing space and some positive interactions, which would then have the result of taking the ‘heat’ out of some of your interactions with your dh, and would enable you to start talking and thinking like a team. Another would be to try and address how you both communicate with each other… either through counselling, or through reading self-help books, or just trying different things. Eg. Sometimes modelling the behaviour you want can get someone to change their own behaviour, whereas asking them to change rarely will (in my experience) - my DH was so obstinate and proud that he would always do the opposite of what I asked just to prove a point. So ‘re-setting’ things by talking to him with kindness and consideration, and doing things for him, really made it very difficult for him to snipe at me, and it was a real turning point in our relationship (much more mutual respect now), and much more care and consideration on both sides.

From some of your responses, op, to some of the practical advice given by pps here, I slightly get the feeling that you don’t want pragmatic advice - are you actually seeking permission to end things, from this thread?

If so, maybe you have actually made your decision already. I wish you all the best, whatever you decide to do.

I can’t afford therapy @Scarydinosaurs and I don’t have any time for it. @zoemum2006 problem with that is that he would do it at a ridiculous time, he did actually decide to start deep cleaning the bathroom once about ten minutes before we all had to leave the house for a wedding, I honestly wanted to flush his head down the (clean!) toilet!

He'd have to do it if you weren't there

Down tools as far as he's concerned. Just look after your children and you

A commute is at least downtime.

She's said she's tried to have loads of heart-to-hearts with him and he refuses to listen or communicate. So no amount of 'opening her heart' is going to fix that as he doesn't want to see or hear it/her.

There are three options really:

• Put up with the status quo
• Couples counselling (if he'll agree to go)
• Leave him.

That's it really. Good luck, OP!

I think a lot of the time the bar is set so low for men that we describe them as decent dads when really they do bare minimum. I recognise some of the sniping you describe and the clothing issue rings true here too. DH "doesn't know where DS' clothes go " or what size shoe they wear ! It's hard to make them want to care