DH and I are foul to one another

[tiredsince2020]

I don’t know if anyone else experiences this, but far from being the best version of myself around DH I become irritable, snappy, defensive, sarcastic and passive aggressive, and I feel he’s much the same to me.

We have a lot of pressures on us as a family. We have two very young children (young toddler and preschool stage), I work three days a week, DH is full time but because his job does take him away sometimes and is a long commute he isn’t around much during the week. I feel he isn’t very supportive. For example yesterday I took both children out of the house in the morning to a church event, when I came home the house was still a tip. I didn’t expect a deep clean or anything but just a quick tidy of toys would have been good. I feel all the house stuff falls on me and it’s impossible to keep on top of. As a result the state of the house is a factor in everyone’s stress levels. But no sooner is it immaculate and gleaming than it is trashed.

I don’t feel he’s very supportive with the children - he does love them, but he’s happy to leave the kind of day to day mechanics to me and if we ever disagree on something it often doesn’t get addressed properly, meaning it just kind of festers.

I am sure there’s things he isn’t happy about with me too. But it comes out in these horrible ways. I know people will say to talk it out but I am not sure how. Mostly it I try to talk to him about something serious it ends up being my fault somehow or he just dismisses it.

I know I’ve painted him in a bad light here and honestly I was ready to tell him I wanted to end the marriage yesterday, and that might still happen but I really, really don’t want it to. Not for me but the children.

Saying clearly that the OP is allowing her children to be subject to emotional abuse as she is might prompt her into putting them first.

I know you're expressing frustration at people advising you to talk but your options are:

1. Put up with it.
2. Talk and see if things improve, then consider leaving if they don't.
3. Tell him now you want to split up.

If you genuinely feel you can't sit down with your husband and talk I don't think there's much hope although if he realises you're just about ready to leave maybe he'd be shocked and change his ways. Or maybe he'd be relieved, none of us know.

So you need a divorce.

Start a new thread asking about this and you'll get great advice and no-one suggesting you talk it through.

Excellent advice😊

You don't feel listened to @tiredsince2020, you don't feel heard, you don't feel human I guess.

If you're not seen in your relationship, your relationship is dead isn't it?

You're not a person in your marriage. I hear you.

Your shitty husband doesn't though.

@Pusheen467 - I know. I do think some posters might be advised to remember no one is forcing them to post and no one is compelling them to answer.

I had a frustrated rant this morning. I still am a bit frustrated, but it’s just life, or mine anyway, it’s just what it looks like. If you want me to say ‘I’ll get a divorce then!’ you’ll be waiting a while. That might be eventually what happens but not while the children are at home certainly so that’s what, seventeen years minimum. I’ll tag NuffSaidSam if that happens <eye roll>

So I say DHs job is to empty the dishwasher and he doesn’t do it, what then? Remind him that it’s his job … yes OK, except if he’s at work then that fails doesn’t it? So before you know it you are back at square one.

I am sorry, OP. He doesn't care. It's shit. People will say NAMALT but a lot are, to a greater or lesser degree, because they give themselves a free pass to get away with it in a way that women don't. I don't know why they feel entitled to that free pass, but I bloody want one too. Except I don't really - because I've been socialised to think that taking advantage of others round about me and not doing my fair share is unacceptable.

There's only so many times you can say "oi, get off your lazy arse, you twat, and come and do your bit!" before it creates a hostile atmosphere in the house.

And for those saying, play it nicely, go softly softly, ask nicely, praise good behaviour, take him out to dinner, spend quality time together - he's not a bloody 6 year old! It's difficult to know what to say to someone who sees the person they're supposed to love running around like a blue-arsed fly while they take it easy.

OP, I suppose if you wanted to go for something grown-up rather than throwing around (justified) insults, you could try something like "Dear husband, your standards for yourself are so low I'm surprised you're not tripping up on them. Ever thought about raising your game a bit? Might ensure your next relationship has a bit of longevity when I finally get round to putting this one out of its misery."

Great so they have to live with two adults who hate each other for their entire childhood. What a pleasant existence for them!

Re the list - it is not the list per se @tiredsince2020.

It is the idea of co-operation, sharing drudgery, being in it together, creating space for generosity, empathy and compassion. Basically, creating room for love to flourish.

Presumeably you married each other because you loved each other. Ironically, new love (the children) is choking the old love (your union).

A little sophistication, generosity and good will from both of you (but him, mainly 😀) is needed in order to make room for love to reappear.

This is hard. I know how lonely something like this can be.

This is it @CrispieCake and in any case it isn’t just the housework. So here’s another instance for those endlessly droning on about lists - Friday I’m running late and rush rush rush, he’s working from home. Does he offer to do the nursery run to give me an extra ten / fifteen minutes? Does he ever offer to pick them up so I can stay late at work and get things sorted?

It isn’t exactly that he is a horrible awful person. It’s more thoughtlessness but there comes a point where you just assume you don’t matter, you’re invisible.

You can roll your eyes at me all you like, while you enjoy the next 17 years living a life that doesn't make you happy with a man you can't speak to infront of two kids who deserve better.

I'm going to have a lot of respect for you if you do keep this thread going for the next 17 years though! I look forward to the announcement.

Why though? Why the fuck should the person who already manages everything have to manage a grown man as well?

@tiredsince2020 I think a lot of your unhappiness stems from not knowing if you love each other any more. I remember being where you are now, deep in the trenches of small children and endless sniping at each other, along with the constant competition for who had it the worst. We did actually come pretty close to splitting up, and even talked a bit about the practicalities of it. What made a difference was that underneath it all we did still love each other. It sounds sickeningly twee, but that somehow (god knows how) got us through it.

If that’s gone then I suppose it’s difficult to see the point of the unhappiness. If there’s a feeling that you’re not working together towards a common goal, it’s hard to see why you bother.

You definitely don't have to make a decision right now. I think sometimes posters just get
frustrated because from the outside it's obvious what needs to happen but obviously when you're in the middle of it it's not so easy.

And FWIW I don't think your husband is a terrible person. He just sounds very passive, similiar to my DH.

Does every child in the UK sail through their young lives without a care in the world and the fantasy of a perfect family? They would be very badly prepared for adulthood of so.

Families try to work out situations as they arise. Sometimes it will be handled really well. Sometimes not. This is life.

The OP and her family have the right to work it.

There are millions of posts about this very subject, simply because it so common at this point in a marrige, with young children.

When I posted about it 17 years ago, many were encouraging divorce. It is not the only answer.

Sometimes, it is very right to walk away. Other times it is very right to wait a minute.

Your extropolation here, of children living an entire life with adults who hate each other, is hyperbolic.

I need you to understand I didn’t start the thread to focus on solutions. It was more a wail of despair. I am an intelligent and educated woman and I am reduced to being practically in tears because I have no life outside of cleaning, cooking, caring for children and my own job.

And that's fine. But I think people are pointing out that if nothing changes, your feelings will get worse so maybe at some point, you'll figure you have to do something. But it's okay not to think that TODAY! These are huge issues.

Must stop replying to goady posters.

Really hard to know @FlatWhiteExtraHot . I don’t think he loves me because why would you see someone you love drown? But I cook and I clean and care for his children and he gets a bit - not much - of sex so from his point of view I’m quite handy.

Well yes, exactly, I’m hardly going to start petitioning for divorce today!

I completely understand what OP is saying and why she’s frustrated with the responses. People don’t talk enough about how hard relationships are at certain points and how if it were as easy as “talk about it” it would never get as far as the OP posting the way she has and so many people identifying with her.

OP it’s not just you- this is so common and it’s not easy to resolve or make better. You’ll probably do what most people do which is muddle through until the children are older. It’s really challenging x

So you can't talk to him about it, you haven't got the time or money for therapy, you won't leave him, you don't love each other and the stress of the situation is destroying yourself relationship with your children.

Why do you think this is better then leaving? What sort of lesson is this teaching your children about what a marriage looks like?

You can't make him change, and your current situation isn't sustainable. I think you need to be a bit less passive, grab the situation by the balls, and make some changes. Either find the time and money for therapy, or divorce.

What would you do if you ran a business where you were joint owners, and the other partner did very little, leaving you to do all the admin and the real work? @tiredsince2020 .

Thanks @AquaPeer - I really do appreciate you saying that. I think I’m not so frustrated once I’ve slept well!

See, I don't think this is common at all.

One person doing more of the domestic work than another is common, a mismatch of expectation when you have small children is common, much of the childcare falling to the Mum is common. But this total lack of concern from the OPs husband is not common, nor is the inability to discuss it.

In many ways it is a bit like that and it would give you two choices. I could watch the business sink: all my hard work, all my investments, all my responsibility to clients, my good name be tarnished - or I could do double the workload.

Either option isn’t great, is it?

I give up.

Dog. See bone

OP, one tip.
If you can assign ONE only for toys.
Absolutely no where else.
It makes such a difference.
A miniture table and chairs can be used for snacking and drawing.
Allowing small children access to the whole house speads the mess and madness.
Buy large boxes, even without lids for storage in the play room and make a game of "tidy up, tidy up, everybody tidy up".
It took a while for me with my children but it did become second nature and every day the floor was clear of toys.
This is a very tough time for relationships.
He needs to pull his weight.