Father is refusing to return our son

[Gownsandteas]

Hello everyone,

I am at my wits end and I don't know what to do. On Friday, my son went to a holiday club at school. He took a while to come back home and I couldn't get through to him on the phone. I called the school receptionist who told me that DS left a while ago as his father picked him up and said he will return him. I immediately called DS's father who refused to pick up his phone- when he finally did. He answered and said that DS is staying with him and he will not return him to me. Since then, he has refused to let me speak with DS, has refuse to tell me when he will be bringing back DS. I went out with a friend tonight as my head was in a mess and when the father called me, he sounded angry that I went out with a friend and proclaimed that DS no longer wanted to go back home.

Before anyone asks, I have contacted the police who were very sympathetic but told me that there was nothing they can do (as he has PR), same thing with social services. I just don't know what to do from here on now.

A while? You get fined for not sending your child into school without a valid reason. Do people on here not have children?

going into school in the middle of the day is a good idea but unfortunately won’t stop his dad turning up on other days. It can’t be done every day.

the best thing to do OP is just to instill it in him to not go anywhere with his father. You can request to teachers to keep an eye on him until you arrive, but unfortunately there is not much they can do if son decides to go with his Dad.

it’s up to you if you want to tell him about his fathers abuse, but you may have to explain if he asks why he isn’t allowed to see his dad/ why you don’t want him to.

it seems your son willingly went off with his father after holiday club and teachers would’ve likely contracted you if it had been forceful/if he was acting like he didn’t want to go with him. The fact they didn’t even mention anything like that suggests son feels safe with him.

is there any way you can phone your son on his own phone just to check he’s ok? It doesn’t have to be an intervention or to ask about his dad, just a chat.

is the father local? At 14, your son would be able to leave if he wanted to. He would also be able to ring 999 if his father was behaving dangerously.

What's his gain oak situation like?

14 year olds are very expensive as they want the latest technology and the most expensive clothes with obvious brands names.

At 14 he's too young to drive but old enough to go out with his friends, so will want lifts here there and everywhere.

If there's been sporadic contact, they may enjoy the newfound son and dad contact but it's going to go tits up when all of the above becomes a reality for your ex.

Not to mention that 14 year olds are not always the best at keeping their room clean and tidy or other living areas.

Why don’t you speak to your DS and tell him to come home?

Which country do you live in? Nobody can give useful advice without knowing which jurisdiction applies.

I suspect there is more to this.

A 14 year old isn’t going to have been taken and held against their will. If he wanted to come home then he would.

It’s also highly unlikely the a 14 year old is going to be without his phone. If he wanted to call the OP he would.

Clearly this child is in regular contact with his father if he knew where to collect him from and he went willingly. And the school knew who he’d gone with. It’s not as if he’s primary age where it would be obvious where he is?

And it’s odd that the OP went out so soon after he’d gone when he could easily come back.

I suspect contact with his father is a source of friction between the OP and her DS, and the DS took this opportunity to see him.

You need to submit an urgent court application on Monday. The sooner you do this the better as once your ex has moved / registered your DC at a new school it will be very difficult to get him back, especially given his age. I believe it is a C100 form that you need to complete and pay a court fee of around £150. You need to take it to the court in person to get it seen soon. On the application form make it clear that DC has alwaya resided with you and also your exs previous convictions and his lack of consistency in your DCs life. Also make clear the threats he has made to you, such as relocation and moving schools.

Also contact your DCs school and let them know what has happened and that you do not consent to him being removed from their roll.

He’s 14. His father didn’t drag him out of the club and I doubt he is keeping him against his will. Putting aside the legal steps in getting him back, why is your son happily with his dad and so willing to stay with him? What’s the relationship like between you and your son? Has anything happened with him?

Is this a neurotypical 14yo? If so, do they not have a phone/social media? Presumably he has school tomorrow if half term was last week, so can just come home after school? Your ex sounds absolutely poisonous, but your DS is 14 not 4 - he could just get the bus home if he felt uncomfortable, which makes me think there may be more to this story?

Do this op, in addition you may get fees waived if on low income.

something to note my ex showed up at my daughter’s secondary school told them she had an appointment. The school were very proactive and told him she had already left. They even phoned my son’s primary and let them know. Then the school called me to let me know the situation I as amazed at the schools actions. They escorted my daughter out another exit making sure her father was gone. The primary then called asked if I’d like to pick up early to avoid confrontation. (School was well aware she did not live with him, and they had a copy of a CAO. I’ll point out the CAO said resides with me. Nothing more about not being picked up, I feel the school acted in the best interests of my child.

What both schools said is that although they can’t refuse to let a child go with a parent with PR they can delay and inform the other parent.

Also perhaps at 14 he has a phone, like others have said have u messaged him. Do you have contact details for any of his friends or parents. You could contact them to contact him iyswim. If his friends have tried and can’t get hold of him then go back to the police and say you are concerned for his safety and will they do a welfare check.

The judge probably won't grant an order and even if they do it will not instruct police to do anything! Have you been watching American TV shows? There is no 'custody' in the uk and we don't call them court houses. None of what you suggest here is reality in the UK with a 14 year old teenager.

PR is parental responsibility. The police can't do anything because both parents have it, and therefore it's not their role to take a child from one parent and give them to another. Social services can't do anything because it's a private family matter, not a matter of child safeguarding.

Power of arrest is not routinely added to court orders. Only in cases where there is a significant safeguarding risk or where a parent persistently breaches the order. This is a 14 year old. The courts only intervene in family lives where it is proportionate. A judge is not going to make an order that says a 14 year old has to go back to his mum or the dad will be arrested. It's just not proportionate.

@Gownsandteas how has your relationship been with your son lately? I know 14yo is a tricky age and it’s not unusual to be arguing. I just wonder if your son has contacted his dad and asked to stay at his? Possibly given his dad a sob story /exaggerated of how terrible things are at home.

This. If the 14 year old is with his father then he is almost certainly there willingly, and no court is going to force a 14 year old to live with his mother if that’s not what he wants.

The fact the OP doesn’t appear to have actually contacted the son tells me this isn’t black and white.

That doesn’t mean the man isn’t an abusive prick, but at 14 the ultimate choice will rest with the DS.

OP needs to speak to him rather than the court. If the relationship between them is problematic getting the court involved is only going to make things worse. The best thing to do is to keep the lines of communication open.

Has ds got SEN?

I'm guessing because it's unusual for a 14yo to be in holiday club (I mean I wouldn't have called it that at that age even if it was a club in the holidays, because that implies child care)
And he doesn't seem to have a phone, or that would have been the first way of contacting.

But also what others have said about at 14yo, he needed to consent to get in the car with the dh, and almost certainly could make his way home if he wanted to. If he has SEN that does change the situation.

OP what has your son said when you’ve messaged him directly?

You were so concerned but you managed to go out? Sounds like there's more to this.

Thanks everyone for the responses. I wasn't expecting this. Just to clarify a few points.

Yes, DS has SEN but can walk to and fro back to school on his own. I put him in holiday club as his school do really nice activities (e.g., going to Theme parks). The school do not know DS dad at all and on one occasion he caused a big scene and has attempted to take DS before (once last year). They stopped him that time but told me they can't stop him again in the future as he has PR.

Yes, DC has his phone on him but I strongly suspect that his father has asked DS to switch off his phone so I cannot contact him. DS takes his father word literally. He would not dare disobey him.

DS has two weeks half term. So he has another week of the holiday's left.

DS father lives in a hostel, in a small bedroom with other people, but I know he is planning to move there soon. Just don't know when. But I can guarantee he will be taking DS to sofa surf.

DS father would not take DS to school. He will attempt to de-register him and find him another school.

He's doing this purely so that you will agree to have sex with him? Have you got that in a text or anything?

I know DS's dad would not let DS return home. Even if he wanted to. Instead of me sitting down at home crying. I went to see my friend as a crying shoulder and who will be supporting me over the situation.

So sorry to hear this.
Mediation is only required for negotiations, apply to court but also get legal advice.
Does your DS normally live with you? How often is he with dad?
If DS is normally with you, then taking DS away is disruptive. Regardless, yous both have PR and the importance of you being in your son’s life. Is your ex giving a reason? Aw this is such a shame for you, this was always a worry of mines. Shared PR can be helpful and also very unhelpful and harming to children with these parents who “exercise their right” with no care for the damage they are doing to the vulnerable children. Putting “their” rights before that is just selfish. I hope you get the support you need.

Thank you. Yes, DS lives with me. He has never lived with DS dad before. I mentioned that DS's dad recently got back into his life. Roughly a year and a half ago.

Oh, I saw that…I must’ve misread it , I thought you’d gone out with her, a night out would’ve been the last thing on my mind!! I hope you get your son back quickly, this must be such a worrying time for you.

Is your son going to school ? If not report . If he is then do the same as him , pick up early .

His dad would most likely have his phone. I have called numerous times. Like I said, DS is very literal. He would no way switch his phone off, ever. I can guarantee that his father has a hold of his phone.