Wife wont let mum come round at Christmas

[Unjeffeson]

Background:
My m(41) wife hates my mum. There wasn't one incident but she just thinks shes selfish and manipulative and just wants everything on her own terms, including spending time with pur daughter. She feels my mum tried to dominate when our daughter was born and has never considered her feelings, and is rude and catty to her. My wife also thinks I take my mums side too much when i try and explain her point of view or try and create compromises. This has led my wife to feeling like my mother is ‘the other woman’, and she sees red almost every time we discuss her.

Things have been stable if unpleasant for a while, with my wife agreeing for my mum to see our daughter every couple of months for an afternoon. In the meantime my mum is on the phone to me regularly about how depressed its all making her.

Whats happened:
My mum has asked if she can see us on Christmas day, so she doesnt have to be by herself. My wife has said hard no, she doesnt want her anywhere near us at xmas. Mum can see us at some point around the end of December but not on Christmas day. Wife says we need to maintain a united front to set boundaries with my mum on this.

Ive been managing my mum’s feelings on all this for two years now as well as putting my wife’s desires first. It is important to me that my daughter knows her grandmother and that she doesnt get dragged into it. When we argue about it my wife makes ‘it’s me or her’ noises and i refuse to break up my family for what my mother wants. But dealing with mums misery on the whole thing is very hard.

What should I do? Is it okay to say no to mum at xmas so long as we have another date lined up?

And i guess more importantly - had anyone here had a mother in law you feel is so unpleasant that you prevent them visiting, keep them away at xmas etc, in spite of the difficulty it causes your SO? Where’s the line of tolerance (if there even is one)?

This. I think the wife sounds vile

My m(41) wife hates my mum.

What is an m (41) wife?

I'm confused.

M(41) is male aged 41yo

Perhaps talk to them both , suggest they both make an effort and clear your air. This has went on for long enough regardless of whose fault it was in the first place.

Thank you everyone for all the messages. There are a lot, very quickly, but I'll try and address the main points.

Examples of mother being awful, in wife's opinion (and not good IMO either):

• Outburst in car 3 years ago about how we moved to an area of our choice rather than thinking about being nearer to her
• Long conversation about how awful my dad (her ex) was / is and how she's a victim (dad did leave due to getting someone else pregnant, but him and I are on good terms now)
• Inconsiderate comments when wife was struggling to breastfeed, about how it was easy for her. Similar comments about other aspects of baby rearing.
• Argument with wife about how she just wants to be part of our lives and feels like she's being pushed out
• Taking baby downstairs without asking wife's permission when she was recovering from birth
• Taking baby to a friend's house when left to look after her rather than getting her to nap quietly
• Pushing for more visiting time (asking for weekends away etc) even though we've said we can do once every couple of months.
• Hassling my brother to exercise and commenting on his weight (brother won't see her now because of this and many other things, he says)

Wife and her have barely interacted for over a year now, bar pleasantries. Damage is apparently done, wife has explicitly stated that she has no interest in improving the relationship ("people like her are toxic forever").

My view on the situation:

• My mother is selfish and inconsiderate and isn't willing to back off when asked.
• She lets her feelings get the better of her and suffers from verbal diahorrea which leads to thoughtless comments.
• She was very loving and caring when bringing me up and is always offering to help.
• She makes me feel I'm the only one with a key to her happiness as 'family is everything'.
• I resent the fact she never made more effort to move on from my dad and I am effectively her emotional support. Perhaps I have enabled this but it's just kind of happened since I was too young to know not to.
• My wife is being very hard-nosed about it all but I was never a new mother and don't know how much damage it has really done, so I have to take her at face value that my mother causes her mental health to suffer.
• I also feel she makes ultimatum-like statements when we discuss this which are unkind when I am just trying to work through a problem.
• I don't like that my wife is unprepared to attempt to improve the situation.
• I don't care what happens to me, I just want a compromise that everyone can make peace with and doesn't affect my daughter's happiness (ie doesn't break up my family - I was a child of divorce and I don't ever want that for her).

I don't think OP is coming back 🤔

Its hard to say because we don't ultimately what has been done or not done, it's based on your wife and mother's feelings. And I feel for you, its not a nice place to be when your spouse and parent don't get along.
Is your mum hard work? Did she bully and try to manipulate your wife?
Is your wife hard work? Slight red flag when you say your wife lets you take your daughter to see your mum. I would not ever be asking my husband permission to see my own family and would see it as controlling if he tried to limit it (which he never would and vice versa).
I think we need more info before any of us can really and truly say who's being unreasonable

Nah
She sounds like many women on MN who have enough of an interfering MIL that constantly makes side comments, criticisms etc….
One that might well have taken MN advice on putting boundaries and saying NO.

Team Wife here.

Wow Op.

Have you ever read Toxic Parents by Susan Forward??

I feel really sorry for you. Your mum sounds awful.

Why should your wife ‘have to’ compromise when she’s developed strong boundaries to deal with a woman your brother has already gone NC with and you yourself say she’s inconsiderate etc.

kindly @Unjeffeson you are the problem here. Your mother has brought this on herself and someone has stood up to her and said no more.

I reckon the mum is a bitch and the DIL doesn’t want to forgive and forget. Has your mum apologised for her behaviour and tried to make amends? I think that would be a good start

It really depends on what your mother is like. Is your wife correct about your her? If so, you can't expect her to want to be around her, especially at Christmas, and it must be annoying to have you defend her or put her point of view forward. If your mum is actually lovely, then you need to work out what the issue is.

My MIL has been terrible over the years. I put up with a lot, we all did. Now we keep her at arms length and she definitely wouldn't be welcome here at Christmas. My kids don't want to see her at all. I'd have loved to have a lovely MIL but we've had to choose a drama free life without her being much of part of it. We're all happier for it. Thankfully for me and our kids, my partner knew his mother was the issue, it was undeniable in her case.

Seeing your update @Unjeffeson , your wife is right and I’m not surprised she doesn’t want anything to do with your mum.

Yup.
Family dynamics!
Don't you just love 'em!
😆

My own MIL I clashed with...but as time went on, it smoothed.

When she died, I cried.

I do regret some things I'd said as a young woman {then in my 20's} and wrote her a letter saying I'd been wrong, and was sorry.

Even after her son and I got divorced, we kept in touch {Grandson}.

we used to dread her arriving. But I'm not heartless, and I certainly didn't see it as martyring myself

It’s not heartless to refuse to invite a “deeply unpleasant person” into your home on Christmas Day, it’s self care. It’s ensuring your child lovely time without a toxic relative spoiling the atmosphere.

No one has a right to other people’s time and attention on Christmas Day - or any other - if they’ve been awful to those people. It’s natural consequence.

As for the OP - go and see her Boxing Day. She’s made it impossible for Christmas Day to be a reasonable option.

Oh dear….you’re one of those husbands are you?! 🙄
Do you honestly think your wife just decided one day to stop liking your mother for no reason??? Or, is it more reasonable to consider that your wife is now the way she is after YEARS of bad behaviour/rude comments/passive aggressive remarks/ boundary stomping from your mother?!
I bet that your wife has told you about remarks made by your mother (always whilst you are not there) and you have tried to convince her that your darling mother couldn’t possibly have said or meant what she said, yeah?
Your mother is the problem here and the more you side with your mum the bigger and longer this issue will last (well unless your wife decides to divorce you). Your wife is correct in setting the boundary that your mother does not come over on Xmas day.why can’t you take your daughter to see her on Boxing Day or the 27th so your wife can then get some relaxation time to herself after the big day. your daughter relationship with her Nan isn’t going to suffer because she does see her on the 25th.
As for your mums feelings…Your mums feelings are not your wife’s concern (as clearly your mum has no regards for your wife’s!)
Take a serious look at your mother and the way she has been over the years. The sooner you realise that your wife came to this conclusion for a reason the easier your life is going to become

Is this a reverse?

Your mother (or MIL, if this is a reverse) sounds like a nightmare and I don't understand how anyone could fail to see it, let alone defend it.

You created the problem. If you had grown up, taken your role as a husband seriously and had fair and firm boundaries with your mother things would be okay. Instead you allowed and continue to allow your mother to manipulate you and dominate your marriage to the point where your wife can no longer bear her. The person who is responsible for that is you. Do you think your daughter is going to like spending time with someone who is unkind to her mother and causes constant arguments between her parents? Keep on like this, keep centring your mothers feelings and you will find yourself divorced (probably to your mothers delight). Go and seek help for enmeshment and understand your priorities before you lose your wife and daughter.

Goodness, your mother sounds headstrong and manipulative, OP.

I can see why your wife isn't keen on her, to put it mildly.

Of course my daughter realised the issues with my mother in law, but she always understood that it was non negotiable having both grandmas round for Christmas Day. We had time as a family before my husband went to collect his mum, and then in the evening once I'd taken her home again, and we made it clear that it was not the end of the world to have to put up with a difficult close family member for six hours on one day of the year. My husband used to take our daughter to see his mum regularly, and when she was young, she wasn't aware of a lot of the problems, and some of the more serious issues had happened before she was born anyway. Maybe it was easier in our case than for the OP because my husband loathed his mum anyway. I can accept that there could be circumstances when you wouldn't have even a grandparent in your house, for example if they were violent or a danger to a child, but otherwise, I think it's very wrong to leave an elderly woman (or man) alone on Christmas Day if that isn't where they want to be.

Ah OP. I think you sound like a nice person. You are trying to understand and do your best by everyone. Tbh your mum does sound difficult. If you could persuade your wife you give your mum one more chance even just to be civil to her that would make a huge difference. You'd need to assure wife though that you'll be reading the riot act to mum in advance or them interacting.
Tell your mum this is making you stressed, you are not wanting to split with your wife and won't be doing that, things can't go on as they are and you and wife want to start with a blank page (if wife agrees) and that she (mum) must think before she speaks, remember her manners, self regulate etc. perhaps a very short visit for a cuppa/ cake on boxing day could be a compromise. Good luck.

my mum’s feelings on all this for two years now as well as putting my wife’s desires

do you see any difference in how you have described them both @Unjeffeson ?

Sounds like your wife is right then, and you should probably re-evaluate how much time you DD spends around her too honestly.

Sorry OP I cross posted with your update.
Your mum does sound awfully hard work to be honest. I can't do little jabs and comments and things. I'm a calm person but they make my blood boil.
It sounds like your mum needs to take some more accountability for her actions and realise her behaviour can be unreasonable.
You seem like a really lovely balanced person and I'm sure you're an amazing husband and father. I do think you need to support your wife.
My mum and dad divorced and they were quite problematic growing up. I have good relationships with them but also space from them. I believe a massive part of our happiness and mental health comes from breaking the cycles of behaviour we have grown up with and I can fully understand why your wife doesn't want to deal with your mum but its important you support her in this and be honest with your mum and not lay all the blame on your wife for her not being there. I suspect if your mum was more considerate you'd make a compromise with your wife about her being there. I would also say that there was a lot of time for your mum to seek out your wife and make amends but she's chosen not to do that and actions have consequences. For years women were manipulated into being quiet and smiling, dealing with the inconsiderate and difficult family members of our husbands in the name of being 'a good wife' and 'for family' but thankfully that's now changing.