Wife wont let mum come round at Christmas

[Unjeffeson]

Background:
My m(41) wife hates my mum. There wasn't one incident but she just thinks shes selfish and manipulative and just wants everything on her own terms, including spending time with pur daughter. She feels my mum tried to dominate when our daughter was born and has never considered her feelings, and is rude and catty to her. My wife also thinks I take my mums side too much when i try and explain her point of view or try and create compromises. This has led my wife to feeling like my mother is ‘the other woman’, and she sees red almost every time we discuss her.

Things have been stable if unpleasant for a while, with my wife agreeing for my mum to see our daughter every couple of months for an afternoon. In the meantime my mum is on the phone to me regularly about how depressed its all making her.

Whats happened:
My mum has asked if she can see us on Christmas day, so she doesnt have to be by herself. My wife has said hard no, she doesnt want her anywhere near us at xmas. Mum can see us at some point around the end of December but not on Christmas day. Wife says we need to maintain a united front to set boundaries with my mum on this.

Ive been managing my mum’s feelings on all this for two years now as well as putting my wife’s desires first. It is important to me that my daughter knows her grandmother and that she doesnt get dragged into it. When we argue about it my wife makes ‘it’s me or her’ noises and i refuse to break up my family for what my mother wants. But dealing with mums misery on the whole thing is very hard.

What should I do? Is it okay to say no to mum at xmas so long as we have another date lined up?

And i guess more importantly - had anyone here had a mother in law you feel is so unpleasant that you prevent them visiting, keep them away at xmas etc, in spite of the difficulty it causes your SO? Where’s the line of tolerance (if there even is one)?

I don't like that my wife is unprepared to attempt to improve the situation.

Has your mum apologised or acknowledged some of the issues? I

I think you need counselling OP to unpick the relationship with your mother especially as your brother has gone no contact as erll

I agree with your wife to not have her over Christmas Day. Why would anyone want such an atmosphere anyway. Clearly she has some issues having driven your brother aawy too.

I'd agree something eg once a month you meet your mum with your daughter if you want to keep up a relationship. Don't understand why your wife needs to actually spend time with her.

The fact your own brother doesn’t talk to her says enough. Team wife!

I think it's very wrong to leave an elderly woman (or man) alone on Christmas Day if that isn't where they want to be

I don’t. Being alone on Christmas Day isn’t going to kill them. Presumably they spend the rest of their time alone and get on with it.

If they’ve been awful to their family members, they reap the consequences of having no one wanting to spent time with them. Why should perfectly nice people’s Christmases be marred by deeply unpleasant people just because they’re over 70?

OP, you sound lovely

Mn is not great for advice on these kind of topics, everyone will automatically be team wife and say your mother is evil.

She does sound hard work and I do sympathise with your wife but I can see why you'd love some level of compromise. Cutting anyone off from a parent is not a kind thing to do either.

You might be better seeking professional help to deal with this than asking on here.

On this particular dilemma I think taking your dd to visit your mother for a couple of hours on Xmas day is the best solution.

Having read your update, your mother sounds like the problem. I don't blame your wife at all.

Stand up to your mother and back your wife or risk fucking up your relationship. If you want a relationship with your mother, that's up to you, but your wife shouldn't have to be involved and definitely shouldn't have to invite her for Christmas.

You need to explain to your mum the damage that she has done. If she sincerely apologised, acts VERY differently in the future and gives it lots of time, it could be ok. However I'm inclined to agree that people like your mother will not change and often get worse.

You seem to be looking to your wife for a solution rather than to your mother. You say you don't like that your wife isn't prepared to attempt to improve the situation. What are you expecting of her? She can't change your mother's behaviour. So what you are really saying that you don't like that your wife won't just put up and shut up about your mother's toxic behaviour?

Do you see how wrong that is? If you want the situation to improve you have to stop pandering to your mother and get her to address her behaviour. If she refuses then that's her choice and shows her claims about family being everything to her are just manipulative bullshit.

I think your wife's being unreasonable and unkind. She can set boundaries but it's not okay to cut all ties and for your daughter not to know her grandmother.

I think your mother sounds very difficult and I can’t blame your wife for her approach.

However, I can understand your feelings and I would suggest that you stop trying to mix oil and water. Spend time with your mother and take your children to see her but don’t try and push this family time
that will simply not be possible.

Thanks for the update op. I think you are too enmeshed with your mother's distress at being left by her husband and - as she sees it - prevented from seeing her grandchild. It is not up to you to solve her upset and it's a real shame she has burdened you with the responsibility which isn't yours. From your brother's reaction it sounds like she's taking out her bitterness on everyone, including your wife. Christmas is always a complete nightmare in these situations and I completely understand why it's upsetting to think of your Mum being on her own but it's not going to be a happy occasion when your wife feels the way she does.

It sounds like this issue is causing a lot of stress for all three of you. It does not seem at all uncommon for MILs and DILs not to get along and people have different ideas about what accommodations and compromises are reasonable to allow everyone to move forward.

As a DIL myself, I think it's a loving thing to do to give your partner time and space to continue to cultivate relations within his 'first family' whether you have easy relations with them or not. So my inclination would be to suggest you and your daughter go together at Christmas for a couple of hours if your Mum lives sufficiently nearby for this to be practicable and leave your wife at home. You can then spend the rest of the day with your wife and daughter, having checked in with your Mum so that she doesn't spend the whole day alone.

I've just read the OP's update, and whilst I agree his mum sounds difficult, tactless, and self absorbed, I really wouldn't see anything that he's said as being grounds to refuse to have his Mum round on Christmas Day. Apologies if I've misread the update, but if she seriously only sees her grandchild every couple of months. then that really isn't vey much at all, and I can see why she is pushing to spend more time with her grandchild. But then this is Mumsnet, where every mother in law is second in their level of evilness only to Satan.

Your update reads really well OP and you do sound more emotionally aware and willing to adjust than most men who come on here.

My advice is, either take your daughter to visit your mum for an hour to do presents on Christmas day or tell her to choose another day in December.

My mother sounds incredibly similiar to yours and i was her rock and pseudo partner after her divorce. I too didnt know any better and growing up we were incredibly codependant. It has taken two decades and my husband for me to realise her bad behaviour isnt "just how mum is"... it is a grown adult not managing her emotions and being hurtful to those around her.

Resoect your wife's wishes and maintain your own relationship with your mum at a level that feels healthy to you.
Be an example of a supportive husband to your daughter so when she grows up she expects her husband to put her first.

Your wife sounds invredibly valid in her feelings and life is way too short to have unpleasant people around you. Especially ones who affect your mental health

Ah. Just seen your update.

So your mother has

caused her son to cut her off

Hassling my brother to exercise and commenting on his weight (brother won't see her now because of this and many other things, he says)

made you responsible for her emotional well being

Outburst in car 3 years ago about how we moved to an area of our choice rather than thinking about being nearer to her
She makes me feel I'm the only one with a key to her happiness as 'family is everything'.
I resent the fact she never made more effort to move on from my dad and I am effectively her emotional support. Perhaps I have enabled this but it's just kind of happened since I was too young to know not to.

refused to respect other people’s boundaries

Hassling my brother … as above
Taking baby to a friend's house when left to look after her rather than getting her to nap quietly
Pushing for more visiting time (asking for weekends away etc) even though we've said we can do once every couple of months.

You know that the issue is your mother but she makes it so draining on you - the calls, the pushing, the guilt - when she doesn’t get her way that it’s easier to go with the flow.

You’ve said I don't like that my wife is unprepared to attempt to improve the situation. Your brother, who had a lifetime of your mother, gave up and walked away. You know that whatever boundaries you set she will keep pushing. Whatever you or your wife do, however often you see her, it won’t ever be enough. So, realistically, what is it that you think your wife can do to ‘improve’ the situation? Or is it that you feel if she gives slightly it will ease the pressure your mother is putting on you?

I can tell all the way through this that you are a child of divorce and have spent your whole life trying to keep the peace while everyone around you is at war. I am the same tbh. The problem with this is that a) you can't please all the people all of the time and b) you end up disregarding your own feelings because you don't really know what they are, you're too busy dealing with other people's.

I'm probably the wrong person to give advice on this, but it's clear that most of the problems here have been created by your mum. The fact that your brother no longer speaks to her suggests that she actually is pretty toxic, and the way she is clinging to you is giving me narcissist/golden child vibes. So I think you need to respect your wife's POV - and your mum will just have to deal with it. It really is up to her to do better if she wants a relationship with her family, and it's not your role to facilitate that regardless.

Oh, wow. It sounds like you're the "golden child" to your mother, and she sounds utterly unbearable.

From your post, it does sound like she merrily tramples all over everyone's boundaries not caring how much she hurts them, to the point that her own son won't see her any more and your wife doesn't want to either. Can't say I blame either of them. It's tough spending time with someone who is deliberately toxic.

You are doing nobody any favours here; it sounds as though you are enabling your mother's excuses and justifications for her poor behaviour. She CAN control things like bitchy comments and whether or not she oversteps boundaries, but she chooses not to and you're right there to "manage her emotions" which probably means you aren't telling her outright she is unreasonable and needs to amend her behaviour. She may not change if you do that, but you still get to choose where you set the boundaries. If that means showing her the door or calling her out on commentsa that need an apology when she visits you, do it. If that means you take your child/ren to see her without your wife, do it.

But if you want to preserve your marriage: you and your wife need a united front on this and you need to hear her and define the boundaries for your mother's behaviour together. Your wife needs to know you have her back, and it seems as though you realise your mother's behaviour is unacceptable at times so you need to figure out the compromise here. What is your wife willing to do, and what does she need from you in return?

ok I am not coming at this from an anti-MIL angle, my own MIL is a saint.

Your wife cannot improve the situation other than not making ultimatums unless she really means it. Because this is all coming from your mums behaviour. What YOU want is basically for your wife to shut up and tolerate your mum as she is.

People do not enjoy being belittled, in fact it makes them feel like shit. It is hard to tolerate a parent who does this let alone someone who isn’t a blood relation. Your wife has to set boundaries.

i think you will just have to live with this the way it is.

Of everything you said in your update this is the one that killed the relationship and I am surprised your wife even agrees to see her

"Inconsiderate comments when wife was struggling to breastfeed, about how it was easy for her. Similar comments about other aspects of baby rearing."

So for that alone, plural comments, you have no idea how hard it is for women especially just after giving birth. For another women to make her feel inadequate as a Mother and then to remove the baby and take her downstairs away from your wife is awful. The fact that you keep siding with your Mum is very bad.

I think you need counselling to see that your Mother guilt tripping you into you believing you are the only person who can make her happy is very, very unhealthy. Your wife should be your priority.

I disagree with the pulling-at-heartstrings comments along the lines of "you can't leave an old lady alone at Christmas".
Spending Christmas with the family is not a right. It is a privilege that you earn during the other 364 days of the year. As Greg Lake sang:
"Hallelujah! Noel! be it heaven or hell
The Christmas we get we deserve"

(obviously it's not 100% right, but it does ring true for relationships)

OP, young women on Mumsnet (and I'm willing to bet, on other social media platforms) are very negative, resentful and aggressive about older women. It's a societal shift. That's exacerbated if the older woman is pushy and focused on herself.

Those of us who are older women are best advised to stay in the background, giving support when requested, and otherwise just entertain ourselves.

Relationships are not the same as when we grew up. My mum spent her time with her mother and sister, sometimes with friends but family came first. When she was a young married woman, she saw her mother in law every day. I was brought up in that environment so I took my daughter with me to my mother's, and we saw my in-laws once a week without fail. That was life in those days. It's not like that now. Whilst I value women's independence and increased opportunities, of course I miss the close family connections that were taken for granted in the past.

Are you ready to leave your wife? You could go 50/50 parenting, and you could then make sure your child and mother get time together. Would your wife mind if you and the dc visit your mum for a couple of hours in the evening of Christmas day? As a divorced mother, I've spent part of Christmas day alone, every year since 1986. It hasn't done me any harm and it trained me ready for being the grandma who doesn't come, or makes a short visit, as required.

I know there are difficult mils but my god how much some women like to demonise most mils. Yes, some mils are too difficult but most are normal human beings. I think given your wife’s stance I’d say ok but I am spending Boxing Day with my mum and taking daughter with me. Social media is too extreme in many reactions and creates so much misery,

So what I'm hearing here is that you are used to being placed in a peacemaker position and being made to feel responsible for everyone's feelings.

I don't know if anyone has told you this before but you do not have to take on this responsibility. Being made to be the caretaker of an adult from a young age is emotionally abusive for children and can create an unhealthy pattern into adulthood. You don't have to rescue anyone. I strongly urge you to consider therapy to help you move away from this family role. Your mum won't like it but it will set you free.

FWIW I think your mum is in the wrong here for a number of reasons and is continuing to try and cause issues. I would support your wife's decision, your mum will be upset. Let her be upset - you don't have to take that on or absorb her feelings, you are not her caretaker, she is an adult. She can make other arrangements for Christmas if she wishes. She still has regular contact with your daughter. I would also make it clear that you won't tolerate her saying anything negative about your wife.

So reading your list, why do you entertain the idea of you mum coming for Christmas?
Now might be a good time to tell her that she can start working on rebuilding the relationship with
your wife if she wants to maybe spend it together next year. And rebuilding will have to start with an unreserved apology from your mum to your wife. No « I apologize but it was coming from a good place » , just « I apologize and it won’t happen again - end of discussion ».
Can you tell her that?

Your mother has trained you to be controlled through emotion, and your wife is taking advantage of that. Both women know you are suggestible, able to be manipulated by threats and that your priority is conflict avoidance, and are both using those traits to get what they want. You need to stop seeing this as a competition between them with you as the passive prize, and take back control.
You can see or not see your mother as and when you choose. So decide when that will be and tell them both. You can also input equally into any decision anout how much contact your children have with your mother. So decide what you think and be assertive. What you shouldn't do is directly impact your wife negatively, so no bringing your mother home when she's there, but yes to visiting your mother at her home by yourself.
If your wife decides to leave you because you continue a relationship with your mother that doesn't involve her, then that would probably be for the best as trying to cut a partner off from their family is a red flag. If your mother stops speaking to you because it's not going her way, then leave her to it. She'll be back when she needs you.