Wife wont let mum come round at Christmas

[Unjeffeson]

Background:
My m(41) wife hates my mum. There wasn't one incident but she just thinks shes selfish and manipulative and just wants everything on her own terms, including spending time with pur daughter. She feels my mum tried to dominate when our daughter was born and has never considered her feelings, and is rude and catty to her. My wife also thinks I take my mums side too much when i try and explain her point of view or try and create compromises. This has led my wife to feeling like my mother is ‘the other woman’, and she sees red almost every time we discuss her.

Things have been stable if unpleasant for a while, with my wife agreeing for my mum to see our daughter every couple of months for an afternoon. In the meantime my mum is on the phone to me regularly about how depressed its all making her.

Whats happened:
My mum has asked if she can see us on Christmas day, so she doesnt have to be by herself. My wife has said hard no, she doesnt want her anywhere near us at xmas. Mum can see us at some point around the end of December but not on Christmas day. Wife says we need to maintain a united front to set boundaries with my mum on this.

Ive been managing my mum’s feelings on all this for two years now as well as putting my wife’s desires first. It is important to me that my daughter knows her grandmother and that she doesnt get dragged into it. When we argue about it my wife makes ‘it’s me or her’ noises and i refuse to break up my family for what my mother wants. But dealing with mums misery on the whole thing is very hard.

What should I do? Is it okay to say no to mum at xmas so long as we have another date lined up?

And i guess more importantly - had anyone here had a mother in law you feel is so unpleasant that you prevent them visiting, keep them away at xmas etc, in spite of the difficulty it causes your SO? Where’s the line of tolerance (if there even is one)?

@Pumpkindoodles I think Christmas can be a very difficult time of year for many people, and I just couldn't find it in me to have left her alone for the day, no matter what she had done. She died earlier this year, so it's no longer an issue, but whatever my husband and I thought of her, she was still my daughter's grandma and part of my family, whether I liked it or not. She wasn't just difficult, she was a truly terrible woman, with only one friend, but even so, I couldn't have slept at night thinking that I'd left an old woman alone on Christmas Day. Christmas Day was a nightmare for us for many years. Both set of our parents were divorced, my mum remarried, and we used to have my dad and mother in law for Christmas Day for many years. My dad was also very difficult and quite unpleasant at times, but again, I couldn't have left him alone. Once my dad and stepfather had died, we had both of the mothers on Christmas Day for many years, and my mum was quite good at keeping my mother in law out of the kitchen 😆.

The OP and his wife are clearly in regular contact with his mum and I feel strongly that he should stand up to his wife and insist on having his mum round on Christmas Day.

It doesn’t really matter in the end if the OP’s wife is justified in how she feels, what matters is that the OP feels stuck in the middle. The OP’s wife feels very strongly about this and feels that the OP takes the mother’s ‘side’. The OP’s mother is regularly on the phone to them about how ‘depressed’ this has made her.

It doesn’t sound like the OP’s wife is going to change her mind any time soon. It also doesn’t sound like the OP’s mother is facing reality here - she only sees her grandchild once every two months, this has been going on for 2 years and causing her ‘misery’ and yet she asks to see them on Christmas Day? With the added guilt trip of ‘so she doesn’t have to be on her own’? Even if the MIL is the most lovely, faultless woman ever born and the DIL is a heartless, evil villain, the MIL has to know that she’s not welcomed by her DIL.

OP, I would tell your wife that you love her, you’ll put her feelings first but you don’t want to talk about your mother with her any more. Full stop. It hurts you to hear your wife criticise her however right she might be and it prompts you to defend your mother which upsets your wife. Nothing good comes from it. Your home can be an OP’s mother-free zone. I’d also up the frequency of visits to your mother to at least once a month if possible and take your child with you. Your wife doesn’t need to see her. I’d tell your mother that this is how things are and you don’t want to discuss your wife with her. Shut down any conversations about the situation. You can have a relationship with your mother and your child can have a relationship with their grandmother but it’s not going to involve your wife. Accept it and get on with it.

It's hard to know for sure who is at fault here. Only you know if your wife has a point that your mum is that bad or if your mum is actually lovely and wife is controlling etc. Do you have other family? What are they doing? How does this all sit with them?

I agree with this. This happened to me. We were very similar. My FIL also commented. The thing is, my MIL was more used than me to getting her own way and the adjustment was more difficult for her. She was actually quite nasty to her son, more than me. I think she always suspected I would literally send her to hell, so she held back with me, not with him.
When she was dying she told DH that he had better look after me, because I obviously really loved him. My BIL and SIL almost fainted with surprise. They told me this, luckily I have a good relationship with them.

It sounds like your wife has a point and that you are prioritising your mum’s feelings over your wife’s.

You have conveniently not mentioned whether your wife’s allegations are true. As her son you might be able to overlook her controlling ways that a stranger would not and if the allegations are true then you are being unreasonable not to set boundaries. It’s one thing for your mum to dominate you but you shouldn’t let her do the same to your wife and child.

Reading between the lines, you want your wife to bend over and take your mum’s bullying (controlling behaviour is bullying ) so you don’t have to listen to your mum moaning but it’s your job as a father and husband to protect them from behaviour like that.

Have you told your mum how her behaviour comes across to your wife ? Have you ever told her to stop behaving like that ?

This post sounds like you tell both women what they want you to hear but that you are afraid of your mum so want your wife to give in to her too. That’s not acceptable behaviour and I’m not surprised that your wife is furious.

I think there are very few circumstances which would justify laying down the law with me or her ultimatums, restricting GC contact and leaving your partners mother alone at Christmas. You haven't given enough detail to judge whether your situation falls into this category or not. However, you are there. What is your own opinion on your mother's treatment of your wife? Is she abusive? Belittling? Insulting? Does she have an alcohol problem? Is she viscous or cruel? Does she stir up trouble? Is she dangerous around the DC? Because these are the types of behaviour that would justify your wife's attitude. Simply wanting to see her son and being a bit pushy about that would not. I think you need to take time to reflect on whether your wife has grounds for trying to distance your mother from you and her GC, or whether she's simply taking advantage of her greater power as your wife to sideline a woman she doesn't like, but when she married you, was part of the deal.

There's no need for that.

Where’s the line of tolerance (if there even is one)?

Seeing your mum over Christmas but not necessarily on the 25th is a compromise. Do you plan to spend the 25th at home with just the three of you ?

Do YOU think your mum has been domineering, rude and catty? Your post starts with 'My wife hates my mum.' Then you say 'she feels my mum tried to dominate ...' etc which would suggest that you perhaps don't agree with your wife's take on this. Does your wife have difficult relationships with other people? Does your mum?

There are two sides to every story…
but it doesn’t sound fun stuck in the middle so you have my sympathies

No, my mother in law was a deeply unpleasant person, and never had any insight into her behaviour. Nothing would have made her change her ways. I don't think it made my daughter miserable having her there on Christmas Day when she was young, although we used to dread her arriving. But I'm not heartless, and I certainly didn't see it as martyring myself. I married my husband for better or for worse - it turned out that his mother was part of the 'for worse' but I made the best of it, as the vast majority of people in real life do. It seems to only be on Mumsnet that people have this weird problem with mothers in law, and cut close family members out of their life at the drop of a hat.

Tbf although it is unlikely it is not impossible, we know there are people like this out there

This sounds a good idea. One parent shouldn’t dominate over every aspect of a child. 👍

The fact that the ops mother is constantly ringing him to complain says to me that she's the problem here. It's not up to the op and and especially not up to his wife to make her happy. Let your wife set her boundaries op otherwise you're heading for divorce. Take your daughter to visit and do not let your mother get away with criticising your wife.

If we were to ask your wife, what would she say is the worst thing your mum has said/done to her?

My wife also thinks I take my mums side too much when i try and explain her point of view or try and create compromises.

So just one question for me.
Have you put as much effort trying to understand your wife’s pov than you have supporting your mum?

Your OP reads as if your wife told you how she felt and you answered with ‘but mum’s feelings’.
Your wife made herself vulnerable, shared what was going on and … you spent your time smoothing waters with your mum. Aka your focus was on your mum.

Before trying to ‘solive Christmas’, I’d put all my efforts into listening to your dwife, asking questions about how she feels and why. I’d listen and acknowledge when she is going to tell you she feels let down and at the bottom of the pile.
Id also spend time deciding where my locality lies here. Do I want to save my marriage (because that’s where you are)? Do I love my wife enough to confront issues head first?
Once you’ve (hopefully) decided your marriage is worth saving, then try and find a solution with your dwife. Which could include you taking your dd to see your mum on Christmas Eve or in Boxing Day. Your dwife doesn’t have to be in loved nor does your mum have to come to your house, despite ‘being alone at Christmas’.

Growlybear...You sound a wise and empathetic woman.

Selfless, taking other people's views on board, and putting up with things despite it not being ideal.

So many people are selfish {and I have been this way in the past} time can change how one sees things.

Christmas is so often a stress point as people try to spread themselves too thin.

If your mum was as miserable as she says she is then she would have tried to make amends with your wife - a rational person, whether they felt they had done something wrong or not, would do this for the sake of seeing their grandchild. It doesn't sound like she has done this but is perfectly happy to play the victim on the phone which in my mind makes her highly manipulative.

Has your mother ever tried to broach the conversation with your wife or does she just enjoy the drama of trying to make waves in your marriage by tugging on your heartstrings?

To answer your second question, yes I've had a MIL this difficult. My situation is different though because my DP also finds her difficult and doesn't want her around at Christmas, so although saying no to MIL does cause him difficulty, it's her and not me who causes that.

What has your MIL done to make your wife feel this way? You say your wife 'feels' your mum is rude and catty to her - so is she or not? (And even if you haven't heard it, that's not a clear no) Why do you want your wife to spend a special day with someone who is rude and catty to her, and why do you want to expose your daughter to someone who treats her mum like that? Why do you want to be around someone who treats your wife badly and never considers her feelings?

I'd also consider - your wife isn't making you choose between her and your mum in general. Framing it this way, you're making your wife the problem. She's telling you that when your mum is being unreasonable and rude to your wife (and therefore causing the problem) you should be standing up for your wife. She's saying she's not prepared to be treated as second best to her own husband. With a healthy mother-son relationship this would never be an issue, so either your wife or mum is being manipulative in your situation, and your description suggests it's your mum.

You need a family meeting and to compromise.

Wife needs to realise that your child isn't just hers and its normal for grandparents to be excited and want to be involved and a lot of grandparents come across as domineering when they just want to be in baby's life. She also needs to say what catty and rude comments are made so they can be dealt with and unless your mum is abusive your child deserves to have her in their life.

Mum needs to have a think about comments she's made or behaviour and how that could effect wife, was she understanding that wife just had a baby, was she trying to be helpful or was she being mean etc

Nothing will be done unless you all clear the air and at the end of the say its your child who is missing out. As for Christmas I would compromise and say mum can come for Christmas eve and see grandchild opening her gifts or Christmas morning or for Christmas Dinner etc

@UnjeffesonWhat is your take on it?

You haven't mentioned anything about your mother' actually behaviour - do you feel your wife is justified, even if it's difficult for you to manage? Or do you feel your wife is being over the top?

Well, who do you think is right?

That's some pretty big beef there, so either one of them has acted very unreasonably, or the other one has - so who is it?

Have you tried to see your wife's point of view? And - be honest with yourself - have you reached the stage of development where children stop seeing their parents as perfect, all-knowing gods, and realise they are fallible? I'm not saying it's the case here, but some men are still in that childlike phase of development where they genuinely cannot accept that their mother could do any wrong, and that is the death knell of many a marriage.

So first, try and be honest with yourself about whether you would be capable of admitting your mum had behaved badly, if she had.

If you truly think you are capable of being somewhat objective, then try and truly see things from your wife's point of view (you say things like "my wife says my mum made catty comments... well, did she? Do you believe that these comments were made, and do you agree that they were catty, or not? If your brother's wife said the same thing to your mother, would you think it was out of order, or not?)

Perhaps come back to us with some more examples of gripes your wife has with your mother.

There are two options here: either your wife is extremely unreasonable and a very difficult person, or your mother really is awful, and you seem blind to it.

If the latter, you need to speak to your mum and back up your wife.

If the former, then you have two choices: stay, and tread that tricky line for the rest of your life (not impossible, just go and see your mum on your own with your daughter, that kind of thing), or decide you don't want to be with someone so unpleasant.

I spent at least three Christmas Day meals as a teenager ‘ill’ upstairs to avoid my father’s mother. She was just a vile person and my parents (my father) insisted on inviting her and her husband because no other family would have them. The grandfather I adored stayed away to avoid her. It made everything tense and unpleasant and she wasn’t grateful in the slightest.

i was the child in your scenario.
I have very clear memories of tense and difficult Christmases around two grand parents (both narcissists and seen at different times). I was young too (under 6yo)

You might think your dc didn’t mind and didn’t know.
I did,