Wife wont let mum come round at Christmas

[Unjeffeson]

Background:
My m(41) wife hates my mum. There wasn't one incident but she just thinks shes selfish and manipulative and just wants everything on her own terms, including spending time with pur daughter. She feels my mum tried to dominate when our daughter was born and has never considered her feelings, and is rude and catty to her. My wife also thinks I take my mums side too much when i try and explain her point of view or try and create compromises. This has led my wife to feeling like my mother is ‘the other woman’, and she sees red almost every time we discuss her.

Things have been stable if unpleasant for a while, with my wife agreeing for my mum to see our daughter every couple of months for an afternoon. In the meantime my mum is on the phone to me regularly about how depressed its all making her.

Whats happened:
My mum has asked if she can see us on Christmas day, so she doesnt have to be by herself. My wife has said hard no, she doesnt want her anywhere near us at xmas. Mum can see us at some point around the end of December but not on Christmas day. Wife says we need to maintain a united front to set boundaries with my mum on this.

Ive been managing my mum’s feelings on all this for two years now as well as putting my wife’s desires first. It is important to me that my daughter knows her grandmother and that she doesnt get dragged into it. When we argue about it my wife makes ‘it’s me or her’ noises and i refuse to break up my family for what my mother wants. But dealing with mums misery on the whole thing is very hard.

What should I do? Is it okay to say no to mum at xmas so long as we have another date lined up?

And i guess more importantly - had anyone here had a mother in law you feel is so unpleasant that you prevent them visiting, keep them away at xmas etc, in spite of the difficulty it causes your SO? Where’s the line of tolerance (if there even is one)?

When I read threads like this it makes me so grateful my son & dil treat both sets of parents equally in every respect.

I still don't know why people think that OP's mother doesn't know boundaries when she's only ALLOWED to see her son and grandchildren once every two months for an afternoon.
Am I missing something
She doesn't sound a BIT selfish to me! The reverse in fact.
Obviously she tells her son she'd like to see them more... is that so very wrong?
And also is she never to be forgiven for taking the baby out instead of insisting on a quiet nap ( sounds like she was actually babysitting a toddler at that stage). It wasn't that they were afraid for its safety... it was because the MIL did not enforce the nap.
Some of the posters in here would be the ones in mediaeval times jeering at the old woman on the ducking stool.
No forgiveness or acceptance of foibles at all!!

Do they do this in spite of your behaviour or because of your behaviour? If you are a kind and supportive MIL it is entirely right that you are treated equally. If you are a critical, insensitive nightmare like OP's mum, you are extremely lucky to have such a tolerant DIL.

Do you believe that poor behaviour should have no consequences at all? It is very clear from the OP's posts that the problems with the MIL/DIL relationship originated from his mum's behaviour, particularly after their daughter was born. Whether you agree with OP's wife's reaction to this behaviour or not, it is clear that OP's mum has done nothing to mend the relationship.

Wow really? What message does that send? Is abusive to you and about you tho send kids of to be with her. Really just says it all.

Am I alone in thinking the MIL's supposed misdemeanours are growing like topsy here?
'Snatching' the baby, making 'abusive' comments, narcissist (isn't everyone disliked on here?), controlling?
And all the while, the poor innocent wife (who only permits the MIL to see the baby every two months) seems to be enjoying her assumed victim status and the control that being the mother of the baby has given her.
I find this obsession with your own feelings and boundaries selfish beyond understanding, to be honest, as well as unhealthy and self-obsessed.
Surely it's part of life to try to get on with people as best you can, not take the huff over essentially trivia and insist everyone else falls in line because of your feelings?
There is a middle line between expecting reasonable behaviour and boundaries and demanding people act the way you want them to, or else.
People seem unable to form sensible relationships sometimes, which bodes ill for the future, when this generation become MILs themselves.

Excellent post

The more I read threads like this the more the following springs to mind.

Do as I say

Do what I want

Never disagree with me

No criticism ever

Never offer how things used to be done even in polite conversation

Never call out my child's bad behaviour

Do not give my child treats unless I agree

Never offer a hug unless you ask

Remember Christmas day is for me & mine

Remember my boundaries, cross them more than 3 times & I guarantee I will go no contact, as will your son

I know your my husbands mother but that means nothing now he's married with a child.

Above all make sure you are always on call if I need help or a baby sitter. After All you are the Grandparents so that's to be expected.

I found it impossible to ignore tbh, my own mother and family in general were abusive, so it felt like a constant onslaught as nobody was on my side it was just absolutely exhausting. It would be constant criticism of my parenting, rude personal comments about my appearance which my ex referred to as her ‘trying to help’ etc. I don’t accept it off my own mother so I won’t be from anyone else’s.

But yes ofc I know you can always say it’s always the mil. Nobody is perfect in these situations it’s just a sore subject for me 😅

@Bthebestucanb You seem incredibly invested in this thread. Is there something going on in your own life or your own relationships that has caused you to be triggered by this thread?

Are you my mother in law?

You hit the nail bang on the head there. Same with SILs, not all behaviour has consequences. My brothers wife clearly doesn’t like us. It wasn’t always like this. I fact we were very close, but something clicked and she now makes it very clear she doesn’t like me or my dad. Very dismissive, makes no effort to start a conversation, dismisses a lot of conversation that is had, etc. I’ve always been nice to her, and since I’ve noticed it I’ve gone out of my way to be pleasant but to no avail. Given up now really, and only make an effort when we’re together

FWIW,Ive been off work recently so more time to tune in.

As I've stated before when a thread catches my interest I stick with it which often means being invested according to responses. I admit I find mil dil relationships fascinating & nothing wrong with that. My own mil could be difficult & she admitted she was jealous of me but we got on OK especially for the sake of the children. I have a wonderful dil & we are great friends as well as family.

How would people on here feel if a) your DH said you couldn’t see your mum anymore b) your DC in 30 years time cut you off because their spouse didn’t want to see you. I’m all for people to have boundaries and things but it is actually possible to have a civil relationship with someone for the sake of your spouse and children. One of my memories from childhood was of my dad saying what a bitch my grandmother was and how much it upset me. He was the unreasonable one btw in hindsight but in his mind, she was interfering and judgemental.

I must say OP's wife sounds like a proper little shit of a human being. The MIL may have issues but to not be willing to try and sort out a solution and merely implies that OP's relationship may be on the line if he continues trying to reconcile the family would be too much for me. I understand you come from a broken home but if you accept this controlling behavior from your wife you will regret not getting out sooner. Do you really think your children will not be poisoned by her narcissism and will be picking up on this even now. So often wives on MN are advised to ditch their husbands, boyfriends etc. If this article were from a wife about her husband most of the comments would be advising them to head for the hills asap. Have some decency; the OP is trying to get help and being castigated for even questioning his overbearing, self obsessed partner. Get out while you can...

You seem to forget this is MN, where the woman is never, ever wrong up until the day they become a MIL, when they are suddenly never, ever right.
A woman's wishes, opinions and needs must ALWAYS trump everyone else's, with extra points if she is a new mother, when she has a free pass to behave exactly as she wants, regardless of how unreasonable.
Thepartner must do as she wishes and not give any unsolicited help or opinions until she decides they are not doing enough, at which point they must see the error of their ways and jump to attention.
PILs must have as little to do with the baby as possible until the point when the mum says they must as they are not interested enough. This is usually when free childcare is required, which they must give gladly and humbly.
Anything else means they are all narcs, clearly.

Guilty as charged!

I think there is more than a grain of truth in this, and it’s really bloody sad.

There's a lot of truth in this. A woman aged between 25 and 55 is rarely wrong. A man is nearly always wrong and older women are gradually banished from the sisterhood as they age. Once they turn 65 they are likely to be perceived as an interfering old bat.
The exception is a step mother who can very much be in the wrong whatever she does at any age.
It's a generalisation but broadly speaking women in the preferred age range are given more understanding.
I think on this thread the posters who are very strongly team Wife or team MIL are projecting their own issues.
The truth is the MIL has relied on OP a lot following her divorce and not built much life outside the family, this makes some of her behaviour difficult and problematic.
The wife, on the other hand is uncompromising and not troubled by how "setting her boundaries" affects everyone else. She's very rigid and they are both at fault.
OP is uncomfortably positioned because he is trying to please both of them and can't.

Lucky you!
Does this help?

I'm not a MIL and am in the "preferred age range " mentioned by a pp. I am strongly on the side of the MIL. Yes she might have relied too much on OP but she sure as anything is going cold turkey now, not being "allowed" more than 3 whole days per year with her son and grandchild!!
I don't think she's demonstrating that she's particularly needy.
Would most people think that 3 days per year is showing neediness?

Surely it's part of life to try to get on with people as best you can, not take the huff over essentially trivia and insist everyone else falls in line because of your feelings?
There is a middle line between expecting reasonable behaviour and boundaries and demanding people act the way you want them to, or else.

And yet that ethos is only ever expected of the DILa and never of the MILs. MILs can be as selfish, rude, demanding or toxic as they like and it should be tolerated,

Ad I’ve said before, people are who they are long before they become a DIL or a MIL, whether that’s a decent person or an arsehole. It’s just somehow now expected that turning 60 gives a free pass to be an arsehole who must be tolerated with gritted teeth and silence.

I don’t see any of the othering of MILs as old people in the stocks. I do see people who are probably as boundaryless and cantankerous now, as they will be or are as MILs themselves, setting the ground for a free pass.

In short - don’t be a dick and life is easier.

I would feel that I should have kept my incessantly rude mouth shut!

Anyone watch Motherland? The Christmas episode where Julia is hosting her husbands' parents and her own mother, who drives her up the wall?

This is probably of zero relevance to the thread, but I find Motherland so funny and the relationships/personalities so beautifully observed.

I know when we first had kids, I had this picture perfect vision of what Motherhood and Christmas and Marriage/Partnership should be like, but the reality is more like practicing a thousand different ways to not be too precious about things.

You're absolutely right. There are some extreme 'MILs can do no wrong' posters on this thread as though OP's wife just decided on a whim one day that OP's mum would no longer be welcome in their home. People can have different views about OP's wife's response to his mum's behaviour but there can be no debate that OP's wife's decision was prompted by things that were said and done by her MIL. People can think that her response was disproportionate/extreme but to absolve her MIL from any blame or responsibility is ridiculous.

Someone has referred to OP's wife as a 'proper little shit of a human being'. That is such a ridiculous response but if such childish insults are being bandied about, I think it would apply more to the MIL than the DIL.

Can I ask how you've drawn that conclusion?
Or are you a 'all new mums can do no wrong' extreme poster? They do exist you kinow.

The OP is not being forbidden to see his mother. There is so much partisan craziness on this thread. He is not being isolated from his mother. His wife is just not choosing to dance attendance on the MIL.