Wife wont let mum come round at Christmas

[Unjeffeson]

Background:
My m(41) wife hates my mum. There wasn't one incident but she just thinks shes selfish and manipulative and just wants everything on her own terms, including spending time with pur daughter. She feels my mum tried to dominate when our daughter was born and has never considered her feelings, and is rude and catty to her. My wife also thinks I take my mums side too much when i try and explain her point of view or try and create compromises. This has led my wife to feeling like my mother is ‘the other woman’, and she sees red almost every time we discuss her.

Things have been stable if unpleasant for a while, with my wife agreeing for my mum to see our daughter every couple of months for an afternoon. In the meantime my mum is on the phone to me regularly about how depressed its all making her.

Whats happened:
My mum has asked if she can see us on Christmas day, so she doesnt have to be by herself. My wife has said hard no, she doesnt want her anywhere near us at xmas. Mum can see us at some point around the end of December but not on Christmas day. Wife says we need to maintain a united front to set boundaries with my mum on this.

Ive been managing my mum’s feelings on all this for two years now as well as putting my wife’s desires first. It is important to me that my daughter knows her grandmother and that she doesnt get dragged into it. When we argue about it my wife makes ‘it’s me or her’ noises and i refuse to break up my family for what my mother wants. But dealing with mums misery on the whole thing is very hard.

What should I do? Is it okay to say no to mum at xmas so long as we have another date lined up?

And i guess more importantly - had anyone here had a mother in law you feel is so unpleasant that you prevent them visiting, keep them away at xmas etc, in spite of the difficulty it causes your SO? Where’s the line of tolerance (if there even is one)?

You’re trying to tread a line through all this, when what’s needed is for you to sort it out!
Either you know what your mother has been doing, and you need some firm words and boundaries set with her before you can start to try to re-assimilate relationships, OR; you think your wife is wrong and you need to sort that out or leave her.

Both sides can’t be right here, and you cannot avoid the issues. This is on you to fix or abandon.

To be fair it’s pretty harsh to expect a child to see their parent’s flaws in the same way as an outsider does and to sever the relationship. He’s been raised by her and of course he will make excuses for her.
My DP’s mum is a PITA. I refuse to let it bother me, would never raise it with him or expect him to take sides. I also know that my own mum is challenging but I’d be upset if my DP said he didn’t like her.

So both your wife and your brother are NC with your mother? She is clearly awful, and you need to respect your wife's wishes.

Where is the statement that you're disappointed that your mother refuses to improve things with your wife?

You can feel both, instead you still want to put all the accountability on your wife and none on your mother, which is the essence of the issue.

I think you need some counseling and some help to unpick some of you're childhood trauma, people pleasing and codependency.

I'm not saying you don't have a relationship with your mother, but if you want to remain a family with your wife and daughter, you need to do some work and instead of being peacemaker passively, pick a camp and proactively work on this in a way your comfortable with. This isn't on your wife, it's on you.

This will be corrosive to your marriage over time. She's already making noises. She's already unhappy you aren't on her side.

You need to decide what's the most important to you. And work on some strategies to have more control and clarity in the relationships you want to have and how you want to have them.

You don't have a mot hr or a wife problem, you need to do some work on yourself and that work will hopefully lead to improving the situation, rather than just surviving it.

The man is 41. So his mother would likely be aged between 61 and 80, unless she was a Teen mum (which is not indicated anywhere).

There was a very similar post in here a few days ago but from the wife’s pov. According to her, her mil had done all the things you’re listing here. IF it is the same person then frankly, you need to listen to your wife.

Sounds very much like your wife is right but you're too blinkered to see it.

You're married to your wife not your mother.

I had a strict no visitors on Christmas day - but in-laws boxing day - for lunch and then they went home about 5pm - I too detested them because they didn't like me from the start - apparently I was 'damaged' as my parents were divorced.

Time to man up and stand up to your mother.

There are some very selfish queen bees out there who clearly think a man should give up anyone who is not approved by them.
I wonder how they will feel, 20-30 years down the line, when the toddler son who is the centre of their life right now casts them aside because their wife says so?

This would be fine if one person was clearly at fault. It sounds to me like it could be six of one and half a dozen of the other.
Also both OP's mother and wife are adults. He can indeed have firm words with either or both of them but, in the end, he has no control over their behaviour or response.
All he can do is be very clear about how he himself chooses to behave and refuse to let either of them manipulate him or control who he can and cannot talk to.

I do agree and if you can ignore it that’s great.

However, the cherry on the cake for me was her being given a key without my knowledge and me returning to her going through my wardrobe. I wasn’t prepared to put up with this but yeah ofc I was the bad person.

I didn’t expect him to take sides so I removed myself from the situation.

I pretty much left my ex because of his overbearing mother. When our daughter was born it was pure hell because his mom would visit every single day without telling us. My ex loved this. Whenever he was off work we did nothing else but go visit his mom. She would phone up everyday and cry on camera phone because she hasn't seen our daughter in 5 hours. It got ridiculous. Long story short, I became so stressed by this woman that I developed a stomach ulcer. I was always wrong and she was always right about everything. I already had two boys from a previous relationship but she still thought that I knew nothing. Anyway, I got rid. I don't know what it is with mothers. Lol. If you value your relationship with your wife listen to her and try to understand.

I can see why your wife sees red every time you discuss your mum as you're siding with your mum and not understanding things from your wife's point of view. In fact, you sound very much like my husband defending his sister, my SIL, who I too have taken a very hard no stance with since she has said a number of things to my DD.

Like your wife, I have refused to spend any part of Christmas with SIL. Your child is little for so long and why should you wife feel like she is having to walk on eggshells around her MIL, which sounds the case.

I do sympathise with this and she sounds awful. I don’t live close to my MIL so that helps and I grey rock her a bit and am just cheerful and friendly but don’t take any of her comments on board.

It’s just a more complex situation than “take your wife’s side”. That’s his mum- think about how you’d feel if your DC cut you off like that. If she’s a narcissist he has spent years being under her spell and controlled by her and will find it hard to make that break. He will obviously also love her like most children love their parents even if they are dicks. You need to be sensitive to that and I think expecting him to not speak to or see his mum again is wrong. It’s controlling and no better than how the mum is acting. There has to be a compromise.

And for every unreasonable MIL there’s also an unreasonable DIL. You can’t assume that one is always right and the other is wrong. The DIL will be the MIL herself in 30 years time.

OP's mother sees her grandchild for half a day once every two months... that's six half days per year.

The wife won't allow any more.

Wife doesn't see MIL

So wife has at least 360 days each year with her husband and child when MIL is not there.

Slightly different to your situation

Maybe source somewhere your mother can go on Christmas day for lunch. There are usually places that do this for groups of people so they are not alone. Then arrange a day with your mum after Christmas. In the meantime find out exactly what your mum has done to upset your wife. Once you have the information you can then speak to your mum about it.

Okay. I was just stating my experience.

This.

Bottom line for me here is you still want a relationship with your mother. I would not want to ever stand in the way of my husband and his parents or other family or his friends. It's not my call or place. So that sometimes needs compromise. I don't like my husbands best friend but I needed to find a way to rub along, so I have. I also struggle with his mum sometimes, but I choose to see her many positive traits and ignore the annoying ones. My mum is also a tricky customer but we e had her over for Christmas many times, and my narcissistic Nan when she was alive, and I can tell you she was much worse than your mum! Family is important and people are not perfect. We can't always get on 100% with all our family but they come as a group so you should try to rub along (unless for serious issues of course).

If you want your mother over for Christmas Day then it's also not your wife's call to always say no. There needs to be compromise, she can't always call the shots in the relationship, you need to decide things between you. And if you disagree there needs to be compromise. And from your list it's not like your mother has done anything really wrong here. She can just be a bit annoying at times. When my mother is annoying I just bite my tongue or placate and ignore! My mother has lots of lovely traits (and you have described some lovely traits of your mum) so I choose to see those.

Does your wife often lay down the law like this and not be willing to discuss and compromise? It sounds like you might be a bit of a placater/people pleaser, so maybe your wife is used to you doing that as you have learnt to do with your mother. If so, then maybe you need to look at relationship counselling or counselling for yourself to try to establish better boundaries in your relationships. It's not healthy to ALWAYS be putting yourself last.

Sounds to me like you need some couples therapy for you and your wife to work through this problem and agree a way forward, and therapy for you to resolve the issue you have with feeling your mother can't cope without you. You aren't her husband and she needs to build her own support network. I would sit her down, post therapy when you feel clearer on everything and stronger, and set out your boundaries so she has the opportunity to be in your lives - if she shows she can respect them. If she can't, which TBH sounds likely, then you will need to be firm on asserting them and reducing contact. Hopefully if your wife feels you are on her side then she will stop making ultimatums and be willing to work with you a bit more - be clear that no matter what your mother says you won't accept any boundary breaches and she is more likely to let her through the door.

I must say I don't agree with this 'we should all try to rub along' sentiment either. Why? Why should you put up with selfish, disrespectful people if you don't have to? Life is short, why should you spend your days biting your tongue when someone is being awful instead of just reducing contact? I agree that DW shouldn't be unilaterally preventing her DH from seeing his mother at Christmas but I don't agree that she should have to 'rub along' with someone that it sounds like is selfish and hurtful.

Blood is thicker than water OP

But surely rubbing along with people is part of being a grown-up. As a child, you think the universe revolves around you and your feelings/needs trump everyone else's. Reading this thread, it's clear some posters have not moved on from that assumption and seem to think that as long as they get their own way, an elderly woman left alone, a husband torn between his wife and mother and a child denied a relationship with her grandmother are just collateral damage and a price worth paying.
What has happened over the past few years? When have we become so uncompromising to people who cross us?

The OP said himself his mother is selfish and uncompromising. Why should she get away with being selfish and uncompromising just because she's old? I understand that we all put up with imperfections of others as adults, sure. Someone occasionally being a bit rude or a bit lazy or whatever, sure. But someone who consistently puts themselves first (which, by the way, if she does with OP and his wife she's highly likely to do with GC), who ignores the wants and needs of others eg by taking a newborn away from its mother - sorry, no, no one should have to put up with that. I'm not advocating OP cuts his mother off if he doesn't want to but to put in boundaries and enforce those by reducing contact of necessary is a sensible way of managing a difficult individual. Relationships can be improved by clear boundaries.

The picture could look quite different if OP's wife wrote the post. 'Help, my MIL is rude, disrespectful, and selfish. She took my newborn baby without asking and wouldn't give baby back when I asked. She's often rude to me and refuses to compromise. My DH won't listen to me or enforce my boundaries with her so I've had to reduce contact between her and our DD. Now he wants her to come at Xmas but I know she will be rude to me in my own home and laugh when I ask her to respect my boundaries.'

I respect all the posters who have said this as it's their choice. My question is would you still make the same decision if one of the parents lived alone & there was nobody else available to spend the day with them ?