October 2024 - But we took you to Stately Homes!

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' back in December 2007.

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;
'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.
'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
Here are some excerpts:
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites
Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat for details.

Some books:
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be given with warmth and support"
I've also now added the post written by Escapingafter50years as detailed below:
"I've copied these links I posted in the last thread and hope they are useful to people here. In addition to therapy and the Stately Homes, I've found them really useful in getting my head around the toxic mess I grew up in".
Podcasts
Helen Villiers & Katie McKenna – incredibly informative and validating, over 70 free weekly podcasts (these, combined with seeing a therapist, have been transformative for me)
https://uk-podcasts.co.uk/podcast/in-sight-2

Videos
Dr Ramani – has been highly recommended here regularly
https://www.youtube.com/@DoctorRamani/videos

Instagram
Useful for bite-size snippets which are supportive and help you feel you’re not alone
https://www.instagram.com/understandingthenarc/
https://www.instagram.com/patrickteahantherapy/
https://www.instagram.com/the.holistic.psychologist/
https://www.instagram.com/gottmaninstitute/
https://www.instagram.com/scapegoatchildrecovery/

Facebook
Peg Streep, has written a book called Daughter Detox
https://www.facebook.com/PegStreepauthor
Narcwise, like Instagram, this account has bite size snippets, often very insightful
https://www.facebook.com/narcwise

Twitter
Nate Postlethwaite
https://twitter.com/nate_postlethwt
Ryan Daigler
https://twitter.com/Ryan_Daigler

Websites
Out of the Fog (lots of information & tools on this website)
https://outofthefog.website/
Mary Toolan Scapegoat Child Recovery (was recommended here, there’s a useful free e-book)
https://www.marytoolan.com/

Short-read Articles
Psychology Today “Narcissist”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissist&op=Search
Psychology Today “Narcissism”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissism&section=All

Books
I haven’t read all of these yet, but have read most and would recommend them
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Toxic In-Laws by Susan Forward
Emotional Blackmail by Susan Forward
Mothers Who Can’t Love by Susan Forward
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents by Lindsay C. Gibson (probably a good first book to read if you're not sure your parent/s is/are narcissistic)
Daughter Detox by Peg Streep
The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel Van Der Kolk
Pulling Your Own Strings by Wayne Dyer (written a long time ago but has good strategies for dealing with people who don't treat you properly)
A couple of other books I have seen recommended by the wise AttilaTheMeerkat and are my to-read list:
Will I Ever Be Good Enough by Karyl McBride and
Codependent No More by Melody Beattie

We have had a break from the estranged relatives for a bit, but today some of the flying monkeys have raised their spider-like heads.

DH and I both have toxic families, we are both the scapegoats. It’s good that we have each other, but we have no extended family, because they are all dysfunctional one way or another.

DH has had the ‘at deaths door’ message today - if we had a £1 for every time that had been implied we would be millionaires. His mother also uses other peoples deaths as leverage for ‘you’ll be sorry when I’m dead too’ comments. We really won’t, plus she isn’t going anywhere. She’s the type who would want everyone in the family dead before her, just so she knows nobody is enjoying life without her.

I’ve had the more mysterious several missed calls from a random family member who never normally calls me, with a ‘call me back’ message.

When we have things like this I get a knot in my stomach and my anxiety ramps right up. I only wrote a message on here yesterday with the thoughts swirling around my head that my NM has got what she wanted, and now this. I feel like I’ve mentally caused the contact like summoning up a spirit, although of course that isn’t logical. But why have they suddenly contacted today?

@VWSC3

Golden child loves attention and drama. Loves to be a 'saviour'. Thinks things will all fall apart without their involvement. Always just wants to be seen as the golden child. Likes to tell people what to do. Won't get their own hands 'dirty' as too important or too busy. Household chores are 'below them'. Likely will be will related as golden child is obsessed with money and status.

Gender seems a pivotal factor in my family. Girls are seen as servants and boys as Gods.

Golden child constantly belittles women. Even my narcissistic Mother, though she does not seem to realise golden child's intentions. Golden child makes wild statements and tells lies to them but when they say whatever it is to me, and then I prove it wrong, I'm told that I am incorrect or they dismiss me with "Oh, we don't think so".

Yes both parents are elderly and in ill health.

Any insight on this anyone?

How might this play out?
How should I react?

@VWSC3 they really try it on don't they.
Regarding the feelings, I totally understand where you're coming from. I was listening to a podcast recently which talked about it in a way I hadn't really thought about before, which was to really let yourself feel those feelings whilst recognising what they are and where they come from. So to try accepting the feeling, take the time to feel it whilst consciously acknowledging that you've been trained to feel that way, the trauma you've experienced that prompt this reaction etc etc. It talked about how with practice the feelings start to disappate quicker and how you'll start to automatically move through the process quickly until you hardly experience the feeling at all. I thought this was interesting and it made me feel better about still experiencing that guilt all the time.

I just think some families are fucked up. Whether it's narcs, scapegoats, golden child, flying monkeys etc they are/and we are fucked up. However we DO have the choice whether we engage or not, I know it seems hard but it really is that simple, disengage or remain enmeshed, there are no halfway measures when dealing with toxicity and dysfunction, your either in or out.
Don't be naive and think you are controlling the situation, LC, grey rock, boundaries etc. They are all bullshit and just means you are still in their game.
Out the other side is peace, quiet and sanity, it can be every bit as hard being NC as it is dealing with these wackos but eventually you gain your life and self back xx

Hi everyone. I posted a thread about my toxic parents / sibling favouritism a few weeks ago and someone mentioned this thread. I've been reading through and my head exploding for a few days now. I'm both so desperately sorry that others have experienced the mindfcuking headmelting deep gutteral pain of parental abandonment that I've been stewing in for years, and also so glad to feel less alone. Like, there's an army of us out there. And even some people who have experienced my brand of financial privileged emotional abuse. The "grew up in a big house, parents did everything for you" variety. I've been deeply alone and traumatised for years now.

It's far too long and convoluted to get into, but a brief summary is that I grew up the middle child "good girl" child of two deeply immature parents, one of them who skews narcissistic. My older sibling succumbed to mental illness when I was a teenager and I left shortly after, to be completely forgotten and ignored unless there's something positive my mother can take credit for or benefit from ever since. The Golden Child youngest, naturally, became the favourite child who would receive a lot of financial and emotional support in my absence.

I'm now 38, and recent years have brought health issues, fertility struggles, a wedding and I'm currently on a career break from a deeply stressful corporate job that basically imitated the dysfunction of my family. I've been doing a lot of healing, a lot of realising and a lot of grieving. My heart is just breaking every day with the pain of all of the deep emotions I've surpressed, the anger I was not allowed, the childhood I never had. Im realising the environment was so oppressive that fleeing was the only way to survive, and I didn't even get a chance to grieve my older sibling, who never recovered and is a shadow of herself now at 42.

I've initiated more distance, stopped calling, had a few canned / re-traumatising conversations with my folks and my mother is panicking and trying to repair. We had a 2-hour conversation at the weekend, where she admitted to somethings, outlined some of her childhood stuff which would explain the neglect, but invalidated a lot of my feelings too (the favouritism is a "concept" I have not based in reality, my lack of communication is the core problem) and then asked me to tell her what can happen now to repair our relationship. With a caveat that she is not willing to do therapy, because she's too old and not prepared to take on more blame and pain.

I'm at a loss. Estrangement feels like a bridge too far. They are 75, there are complex things that have never been discussed such as what happens to our older sibling, there's a wider family that is at stake. All I want to do not is to stop suffering, but I'm struggling with how I can cut off my elderly, rapidly ageing parents and live with myself.

I'd love to hear from others, those who have gone LC or NC, and what the aftermath looks like. I don't feel equipped at all to take on this emotional labour, and am worried at how it will set back my own life at such a critical time.

@wonderingwonderingwondering In my case, it was like the final thread of attachment just snapped and if I didn’t go NC I was going to break. I didn’t plan it, but I knew there and then I had no choice. Everyone’s situation is slightly different. I had a bullying NM. She was very physically violent to me until I was about 10 when she then had my siblings. I then became useful as a nanny, domestic help and then from early teens became her 24/7 emotional support and caregiver where she ranted about all the ills of the world against her on a loop. It was so draining and stressful. My Dad just expected us to put up with it all, just shrugging and saying it’s just mum and admitted to me that he knew she was physically violent towards me as a child but what could he do. We were from a nice middle class family so all this was hidden from the outside world.

So I personally didn’t plan NC, it just happened because constant phone calls/texts and visits from this poisonous ranting viper drove me to the edge. It was like being punched in the face by one of her toxic communications. She loved making spiteful comments about me and belittling. So I agree with @binkie163 it’s not always easy initially but now I have peace, calm and my lifelong anxiety has basically disappeared. It feels like the best gift I could have given myself. Guilt very occasionally surfaces but mostly it’s total relief and when I do have feelings of guilt, I remember this situation is of their making. I had a bit of guilt a few months back due to her having a breast cancer diagnosis, but then remember how she use to say and wish a ‘painful & slow death of cancer’ on various people that vaguely upset her. Although I hope she recovers and wish her no harm, I will not renew contact because of this.

For me, going NC is the same as bereavement, once you’ve come to terms and grieved for the normal family you never had, it then lets you move on in peace to find your own life. I was plagued by a huge knot of anxiety forever in my chest waiting for the next call/text/insult/blow when I was in contact, this has now gone and I am allowed to just be me. It’s so lovely not having to deal with that immense hatred and rage anymore. Siblings can either accept my terms or not. I try and keep LC with them as they are manipulated into flying monkeys by my NM. My only regret is I didn’t do it 30 years earlier.

Just to add, another great benefit of total NC is I get to avoid all the family Christmas meet ups with them. Christmas with my birth family was like trying to swim in a thick toxic soup. It’s really lifted a weight from my shoulders and I no longer feel sick with worry and anxiety regarding the festive season anymore.

When I received therapy (and it took 2 years) the therapists said that I had been the "family dustbin"

My parents finally managed to push myself, DH and DC out of their lives. Yet managed to make it look as though it was me and my lovely DH's fault.

So I know what you mean.
This was 25 years ago and time does heal

They haven't won though, you have. Good riddance to them, now have a good life x

@SkylarkDay I said it so well when you said a lifetime of anxiety just disappeared after NC. I realised I always had this inner turmoil because of the emotional chaos in my family of origin. It meant I was always, always on edge and could never truly relax, even when I already lived a whole flight away from them.

I have this peace now inside of me that now stays even when I feel shit. I sometimes cry with relief and happiness that I can experience this. And then I cry that it meant I had to completely give up on the idea of family and that I will never get to experience a functioning family. NC truly is the greatest pain and the greatest liberation of my life.

I'm not good at understanding the psychology of all this.

Would a Narc Parent/Sibling prefer:

• To think they have the Power or are more important?
• To think you feel sorry for them?
• To be 'centre stage' or watch with glee from the sidelines?

I just don't know how to react sometimes.
I am trying to be boring and say little about my actual life but get responses such as "you have nothing to do", "you don't have a life outside of work", "you're so bland" etc etc

I am likely to come face to face with my Narc Sibling soon. From history I can tell they are jostling for an argument and purposely trying to run into me. This can only be to say something derogative or tell me to do something.

I try to act all jubilant and happy around them. (It seems to unsettle them as how can I be happy?)
Is that the best reaction to give?

@JustLaura Before I went NC I used to do what you do - act happy and upbeat around them. I came to realise over time that that was what was enraging them - they hated seeing me ‘happy’ and wanted to take me down a peg. The happier I seemed the more they said nasty things or stabbed me in the back or did other nasty things. They aren’t happy at heart so they hate seeing anyone happy (whether you are faking it or not).

The only way to be around a narcissist is to be bland, neutral, tell them nothing, show no emotion at all. Give them nothing to work with. The best way to be with a narcissist though ultimately is to be as far away from them as you can get.

@JustLaura you are trying to find rhyme or reason in something that a reasonable person cannot make sense of.

It depends on the role the narc has assigned you to. Remember: you cannot do it right. A strategy won't work 100pc. Even if you grey rock them, they will find fault. And that is because as soon as they subconsciously feel a whiff of shame or can see it coming a mile off they will twist reality in their head to suit them and to let you be the bad guy.

Still around and grieving for the family I thought I had and now know I will never have

. @Piggled your post resonated with me because it’s been a few months of NC with my mum, sis and bro and it’s like I’m used to it but not iykwim?. The longer it goes on the more moments I notice the enmeshment that I’ve been in, just how much I included my family in my decisions and how much they belittled me and made me feel worthless. It feels as though all my thoughts are wrapped in my family and I hate it.
I hate it because it was all a lie, the way they have treated me for years has been so abusive and it’s so painful, my mum has been the one to drive the abuse and try and turn my siblings against me, yet I miss them and miss how it was.

But now I can never unsee it and can’t see how I can have a relationship with them ever again. For example when I was a teenager my mum would lie and say my brothers were reading my diaries when it was her all along. I’d be so mad them, she would be smirking. Then, when I was older I put a lock on my door to prevent my sisters going in and found out that my mum would use the spare key send my sisters in and they would hang out in my room, going through my things whilst I was at work. I mean what a nasty woman, I would never disrespect my son’s privacy like that.

I am already finding peace without the criticism, and thinking of all the things I want to do without worrying about their approval. Therapy is helping but it fucking hurts and I’m so angry.

its my sis birthday and I sent her a card this week, I was really torn because we haven’t spoken but the FOG is strong with her, so I felt compelled. I am not expecting a response from her and she wouldn’t do that for me. .. I guess I was sending it because the voices were too loud, but now it’s down there are no other events till Xmas that need to feel guilty about.’

@Supamum3 I get that entirely. It’s also my parents’ anniversary coming up and I am so torn whether or not to send anything (I’ve still been sending gifts since going LC virtually NC) despite not being invited to any events they all meet for, and it feels so wrong to not do anything like I normally would. I really don’t know because it’s not like I officially fell out with them they’ve just not spoken to me since the middle of summer. Literally just discarded.

when I moved out I was so generally apologetic for my existence my housemates thought I was insane. I would do everything to basically erase my existence. Immediately clean a dish I had used. Not dry my hair because I was worried about my hairdryer being too loud. Stupid things.

and yet a lot of it wasn’t overtly abusive, if anything I was a scapegoat, definitely the parentified child. No love from my Dad. Probably not as objectively bad as it could have been but some very strange stuff relating to my past and failure to protect me.

it’s weird how deep it runs. I get it.

yes I get it too. It consumes a lot of my energy trying to make sense of my sister and what has happened to.our relationship since my father died. We have gone from sharing everything to me being dropped and her and mum being best friends. There are tricky relationships all round and I can see it all so clearly now. My sister is incapable of caring for anyone but herself and has used me whenever it suits and dropped when it doesn't.Well no more ! but by God it hurts to realise that no one in your birth family basically cares about you except in terms if you being useful to them .

@flapjackfairy @Piggled If your families are anything like mine they are waiting for you get over it and get back in touch so everything can go back to normal. For me I feel some power in NC with my mum because it’s a constant reminder that things are not back to normal, even a lot of time has passed. My sister called to thank me for the card and we spoke which was nice as I did miss her , she apologised though I got the impression she wants things to get back to normal and asked when I was going to speak to mum. They just don’t get it.

@Supamum3 I think they don’t get it because we put up with so much crap before we eventually go NC. They are used to us just turning the other cheek to get slapped down again. When we are NC we become the awkward obstacle.
The reaction seems to be the only thing that’s seen, and the multiple negative actions of the abusive family member/s that have led us to this point are ignored and brushed under the carpet.

I’m struggling so much at the moment. I’ve seen a few people my relative knows this week, and each time I’ve had very obvious dirty looks, whispering behind hands and smirking at me. This is after the missed calls I had on my phone from a random family member the other day. I feel suffocated. I don’t even know what’s being said about me, but clearly there is something new going around about me because there seems to be a shift in the way people we mutually know are behaving around me, but of course nobody is saying what. I hate living in the same town as them all, it feels like this will never end.

@VWSC3 I get anxious when I go to places my dsis or her friends maybe as I have no idea how to react to dsis if we came face to face or if I see any of her friends well they were family friends as I have no idea what she has said to them about me she has obviously given some explanation to them as to why we are nc and why me and my dc aren't at social gatherings and It won't be the truth

I feel in a bit of a catch 22 situation I am now not visiting dm as she doesn't invite me into the house anymore but that is playing into my dsis hands as she can and will rant to everyone how I did nothing for dm left it all to her I did plenty until dsis excluded me and went nc with me but i still maintained contact with dm despite feeling very hurt by her actions as i am aware she is being manipulated

My only solution, despite the hassle of it all, was to move away. Which I did. It doesn’t have to be miles, I made sure I was 60-90 minutes away by car from them all. Means I have my own town/ & life away from them all which is utter bliss and been worth all the moving hassle. The first few years I lived close by to them after NC, I was always on eggshells and couldn’t relax, plus it’s easy for them to doorstep you.

Would love a sanity check as, like a lot of you I'm sure I have an ingrained feeling that I am the one who is unreasonable and yet my families behaviour seems so out of step of what I consider to be normal family behaviour.

I recently went non contact with my mother and brother and am contemplating doing the same with my father. He said something objectively nasty in a recent phone call and rather than letting it trigger me I hung up and wrote a short email stating what he said in quotes and saying that this was not okay.

He told me that "I did abandon my brother" when a I was 14 and he was 10 to leave my.mother (who was abusive) and brother in Australia to come and live with him in London. My brother has a lot of anger towards me about this and will often have aggressive outbursts when we see each other which is rarely. I went on to say that any anger he feels over having a separated family should be aimed at him or my mother but that I was an abused child at the time.

2 weeks go past and I get an email back explaining that he is still upset by my email and then jumping into a long tirade about how tough everything was for him and he did everything he could.

I cathartically wrote out a long reply but didn't send it knowing it would be akin to banging my head against a brick wall.

So, fast forward a month later and it's my daughter's birthday. I get an email a few days later saying he has used the wrong stamp and that the birthday with cash in it will not arrive. I should "implore to my daughter his good intentions".

He is always accusing me of not allowing access to my childhood often but he has just sabotaged his relationship with them and they really don't like spending time with him. I also told him not to send cash in cards. Almost all contact I have with him is him explaining how low he is which inevitably ends in him asking to see the kids.

So my question is who does this? Is this normal behaviour to not resend a gift if you don't put the correct stamp on? Is it normal to instead repeatedly ask me to smooth it out?

I received another email today's essentially saying the same thing. He talks about how much he wants a relationship with my kids but can't even remember their birthday send something for Christmas each year?

Apologies for the wall of text. It's so hard posting in isolation and trying to cut down on context. It feels like if I can pull out these small objectively unusual responses and feel fully justified in finding it so abnormal then it helps me stay calm and rational.

@PumpkinPiloter your dad is a manipulative man, he is trying to guilt you to feel sorry for him.
He has zero rights to see his grandchildren and they are not playthings for him when bored or lonely. He has no understanding of appropriate behaviour so I wouldn't let him anywhere near your children.
Had he been a decent parent and there are many decent parents despite extreme hardships and circumstance but your father isn't one of them.
He wants his own way, he doesn't get to dictate to you, save yourself the misery. If you can't go NC with him just say you will no longer discuss or justify your position regarding him, your brother or access to your kids FFS
Just remember these toxic, pity me types are an unending drain on your energy, emotion and headspace, it's better spent on your own children so they grow up in a safe loving environment, unlike us xxx
That's my long winded way of saying NO it isn't bloody normal xx

This response has made me feel sane. I often feel like I am going crazy. You really hit the nail on the head when describing his behaviour. Thank you so much! Xxx

that is the worst thing I find the constant overanalysing and trying to decide if you are overreacting or not ( me , not you I mean ). I have finally realised that I don't have to justify how I feel to myself or anyone else for that matter. It just is how I feel and to keep second guessing myself is only keeping me stuck so I am trying to close it down as soon as it enters my head . x

So sorry to hear of nice aunts passing @AttilaTheMeerkat take great care of yourself

I know exactly what you mean! In some ways I think that second guessing ourselves and questioning whether are reactions justified is what makes us good people but it can also be pretty self destructive. Having my own family has been a huge healing process for me. I am happy in my little unit but my parents and siblings still know how to press my buttons and set traps for me and I somehow keep falling in to them even when I see them right in front of me. Trying to break the cycle but it's tough.