October 2024 - But we took you to Stately Homes!

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' back in December 2007.

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;
'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.
'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
Here are some excerpts:
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites
Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat for details.

Some books:
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be given with warmth and support"
I've also now added the post written by Escapingafter50years as detailed below:
"I've copied these links I posted in the last thread and hope they are useful to people here. In addition to therapy and the Stately Homes, I've found them really useful in getting my head around the toxic mess I grew up in".
Podcasts
Helen Villiers & Katie McKenna – incredibly informative and validating, over 70 free weekly podcasts (these, combined with seeing a therapist, have been transformative for me)
https://uk-podcasts.co.uk/podcast/in-sight-2

Videos
Dr Ramani – has been highly recommended here regularly
https://www.youtube.com/@DoctorRamani/videos

Instagram
Useful for bite-size snippets which are supportive and help you feel you’re not alone
https://www.instagram.com/understandingthenarc/
https://www.instagram.com/patrickteahantherapy/
https://www.instagram.com/the.holistic.psychologist/
https://www.instagram.com/gottmaninstitute/
https://www.instagram.com/scapegoatchildrecovery/

Facebook
Peg Streep, has written a book called Daughter Detox
https://www.facebook.com/PegStreepauthor
Narcwise, like Instagram, this account has bite size snippets, often very insightful
https://www.facebook.com/narcwise

Twitter
Nate Postlethwaite
https://twitter.com/nate_postlethwt
Ryan Daigler
https://twitter.com/Ryan_Daigler

Websites
Out of the Fog (lots of information & tools on this website)
https://outofthefog.website/
Mary Toolan Scapegoat Child Recovery (was recommended here, there’s a useful free e-book)
https://www.marytoolan.com/

Short-read Articles
Psychology Today “Narcissist”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissist&op=Search
Psychology Today “Narcissism”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissism&section=All

Books
I haven’t read all of these yet, but have read most and would recommend them
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Toxic In-Laws by Susan Forward
Emotional Blackmail by Susan Forward
Mothers Who Can’t Love by Susan Forward
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents by Lindsay C. Gibson (probably a good first book to read if you're not sure your parent/s is/are narcissistic)
Daughter Detox by Peg Streep
The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel Van Der Kolk
Pulling Your Own Strings by Wayne Dyer (written a long time ago but has good strategies for dealing with people who don't treat you properly)
A couple of other books I have seen recommended by the wise AttilaTheMeerkat and are my to-read list:
Will I Ever Be Good Enough by Karyl McBride and
Codependent No More by Melody Beattie

@AttilaTheMeerkat sorry for the loss of your aunt

@AttilaTheMeerkat sorry to hear about your aunt xx

So it’s finally happened. Father has died. He didn’t know birthdays of my DC and they wouldn’t have recognised him from Adam. They (and I) last saw him 18 years ago. He left my mother (abandoned us) when I was 10. He was late to my wedding. He paid no money in child maintenance and barely any contact.

so …. His second family have been in touch. I don’t know them and have no interest. Funeral set up etc

And …….

Can my sister and I pay half the cost? Here are the bank details etc etc

Hell no! I am not going and I am not paying. The bloody cheek. I am fuming 😡

wow that is unbelievable! Don't give in no matter what . Are you going to the funeral ? Some people are just beyond words !

sorry ignore ! See you are not going ! I was too shocked by the request for money to read it properly.
My friend in a similar position did go to her dad's funeral and was forced to listen to.what a great dad he had been to his second family and what a loving grandfather he had been etc etc. It was v damaging after he had abandoned her as a child after gambling all their money away and leaving them destitute.
Anyway hope you are not derailed by the conflicting emotions around his death . Take care x

@Milkandnosugarplease 😂Fuck NO....jeez these people!
if your dad didnt make provision for his funeral he can go in a cardboard box, on a bonfire, bonfire night in 4 weeks so excellent timing!! send them a couple of cardboard packing cases and box of matches to help them out......bastards

Milkandnosugarplease

Hell no indeed to their CF request for money!. All power to you for neither going nor paying. Block any and all access to you going forward.

@Milkandnosugarplease

Even if you were going and were on great terms, how on earth can they arrange/set it up without asking you for any input and then ask you to contribute?!

Some people are unbelievably cheeky!

They are obviously chancing it.

@Milkandnosugarplease I can't believe the cheek of them to ask you and your dsis to pay for the funeral

Agree with others, they get worse and any filters they did have totally disappear. My very angry & aggressive NM is even more furious she has aged. She’s taken it totally personally and it’s like she’s the only person who faces aging. She almost vibrates with the anger of it.

Wow!! That’s beyond shocking!! They sound as bad as him.

Dreadful day. A sorts of messages to sis and myself. Have we any memories we want to share and any photos? They basically want £6k off us. It has been a hard no from us, we want no involvement. Bloody mother now harping about a wake etc, she is seeing it as an opportunity to have a party meet up for her friends.

They have spent his money, there is nothing left. I am so cross.

So lucky we moved from that small town after university. It means there is no chance of meeting them. All SM locked down!

@Milkandnosugarplease I am sorry you've had a tough day I hope you and your dsis are ok

I am still struggling to get over the shock that my entire family has just discarded me.
it’s been three months of NC (minus a short interaction when I messaged my mum but she replied briefly and then carried on ignoring me) and I am still in a state of disbelief. I also have no husband or boyfriend or family of my own, so I feel utterly alone most of the time. I have lovely housemates but not many friends where I am as I’ve recently moved and have a new job.

I am generally well liked by people and logically I know I can’t be a horrific person but I feel it. I feel like there is something wrong with me and I don’t know how you fix that. Does the shock of it get easier? How long does it take to accept you just don’t have family anymore or does it never go away?

xx

@Piggled it does get easier and there will be a point at which not every day is bad. Look at it like you are grieving, which you probably are. There is no timeline as it's individual, but for me it was after 18 months when I started to see a new life ahead. Out of those 18 months I'd say six were very dark and six were a mix when the past and the reality didn't bother me every minute of the day anymore.

I'm still lonely and isolate myself as I have no family, partner etc. and I still don't know how to overcome the loneliness. I have a couple of friends, but I'm still lonely because people do not understand what I'm going through unless they have been through it themselves.

I think I will always struggle with the realisation that I couldn't have a functioning family and that I never knew a mother's love. Occasionally it hits me that I am totally on my own and that realisation is completely overwhelming.

But over time the shit days have become less and I am learning new ways to deal with things. Hope it gets easier for you soon.

@Twatalert thank you for your reply. Do you still go through periods of feeling like it’s your fault? I’ve noticed I’m reverting to past self-punishing behaviours. So trying to work on that.

I agree it feels like no one will quite understand. I can’t even explain to people why I’m not in contact with my parents because I don’t even know why myself.

it sounds like you’ve done so well for getting as far as you have. It takes so much strength.

@Piggled I dont think I have thought that it's my fault in a long time, but I sometimes still wonder whether I'm exaggerating or have blown things out of proportion. Obviously I'm not because my childhood gave me cptsd and other issues and my life has been a real struggle and is actually getting better now. I am getting better and I start to feel like a person, like the main character in my own life.

Thanks, yes it's taken a lot. I sometimes look back and I can't believe I actually went NC and somehow survived that first year of distancing myself from family, grieving people that are still alive, understanding the shit show that my childhood was etc. it's like from another life. I have had professional help though and it was much needed.

Next big hurdle is Christmas. What do I say if one of my many clients asks what I will do, how I will spend it. Will my generic answer be weird. Will I burst into tears knowing people have a family to spend Christmas with and I don't etc. Tbh it's been on my mind since about July.

I'm sorry, @piggled that sucks.

I've been thinking that the only qualifier to becoming a parent is that (in most cases) you have to have sex. At least once. That's it.

And we expect parents to love and care for their children etc etc. But that doesn't always follow.

Not sure if that makes sense but I'm trying to lower my expectations of others.

Nothing my children do or don't do would alter how much I love them. It's not a reflection on the child at all, it's a reflection on the parent if they, for whatever reason, don't love or don't show the love they have for their children.

I’ve namechanged, but have used the stately homes thread before.

Something is playing on my mind today - I’ve come to the realisation that NC must have been what my narcissistic parent wanted all along. Someone wouldn’t insult, demean, exclude, physically and mentally hurt someone they wanted to keep in their life, would they?
Do you think that is the same for all of us scapegoats? We were used as an emotional punchbag, pushed to the point we could no longer take it and went NC and then blamed for the NC, when deep down that’s what the narcissistic parent wanted all along? They play the victim, but they’ve actually won because actually they wanted us out of their lives, and they have the added bonus that they get to blame us for an eternity for it.

@VWSC3 i can see how you get to that conclusion. I firmly believe my mother never liked me, but I don't believe mine worked towards NC. I believe it brings shame onto her, which she's obviously trying to diffuse by controlling the narrative etc.

After I read your post I realised this is the final act of scapegoating.

@VWSC3 and @Twatalert

My elder sibling went NC years ago (went NC to everyone in the family. A clean break as this coincided with a move to Scotland).

My Parents only ever say "We can never forgive him for what he's done to us"

I believe, as this seemingly benefited my younger sibling, that younger sibling is now trying to force my parents into going NC with me or me going NC with them. That's how it feels. I'm useful to a point but ultimately golden child wants me eradicated too. As their needs increase (they are elderly and in ill health) the worse golden child's venom is.

@Piggled it's hard It's been 18 months since dsis blocked me and I am still struggling I do have a dh and young adult dc but for me we were going through a period of sudden unexpected deaths at the time dh db 60 had a heart attack and we had to switch off his life support dh cousin age 52 got stage 4 cancer lived 8 weeks to name a few there was 5 in a year so it made me realise life how precious life is and how we don't know how much time we have left etc and then dsis blocks me

Dsis has then excluded me and my dc from dm life who 84 with a dodgy heart is already on borrowed time she has processed to manipulate dm to the point she won't let me in the house

I am extremely hurt i have done nothing wrong it took me 7 months to report her to opg to investigate not that they have done anything and 12 months to report to adult safeguarding as I didn't want dsis in trouble I thought maybe last Christmas she might of reached out but didn't

I have so many triggers it's really effects me and sadly i think the only way i will get closer and peace is when one of them passes away which breaks my heart but i don't think i can't forgive dsis after what she has done but I have anxiety and intrusive thoughts about when dm dies if she goes first not being told not saying goodbye or if dsis goes first as she's in poor health also sorting dm out after being removed from poa and would I want to after she's changed her will and allowed herself to be manipulated and to cut me and her dg out

I am sorry you are struggling as well and I really hope it gets easier for everyone in this situation

I don’t think my NM ever wanted NC as it robs her of one of her foot soldiers. We were all born purely to serve her needs. We all have our role in my NM eyes. I was emotional caregiver/support to the point where I wasn’t allowed a life or feelings for myself. It was all consuming, expected to drop my own family’s needs for her, and consisted of numerous daily texts/calls demanding attention. Dsis is scapegoat but will probably be shouldered with caregiver role as well now I’ve gone NC. Brother is golden child and can do no wrong.

@JustLaura Why do you think your sibling is trying to push you out? Are your parents very elderly? Golden children love all attention and resources given to them, so do you think it might be will related?

I'm feeling so low today. Am tentatively trying out LC but my engulfing NM cannot cope with it at all. We had arranged to meet Friday but she's messaging me about coming in the week after nursery. I've said no and she's not taken it well.
She has mentioned again about my younger sister (much younger, adopted) being suicidal because of me and how much she misses seeing my kids. It's her 16th birthday next week. She has no friends and wanted a party with us there. I've said we will go because I just cannot ruin her birthday for her (I know that's not what I'm doing but she's too young to understand). I feel sick at the thought of it already.
I know this sounds so messed up but I actually felt a weird pang of envy reading about some of the ignoring nms. A strange longing for mine to just ignore me so I can move on. I can't say she's never done anything for me as she was always here apparently 'helping' me. She's obsessed with me. Please know that I don't consciously feel this way and of course don't believe for a second that either situation is 'better' or 'worse' but I just wanted to share that completely messed up emotional response.