October 2024 - But we took you to Stately Homes!

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' back in December 2007.

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;
'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.
'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
Here are some excerpts:
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites
Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat for details.

Some books:
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be given with warmth and support"
I've also now added the post written by Escapingafter50years as detailed below:
"I've copied these links I posted in the last thread and hope they are useful to people here. In addition to therapy and the Stately Homes, I've found them really useful in getting my head around the toxic mess I grew up in".
Podcasts
Helen Villiers & Katie McKenna – incredibly informative and validating, over 70 free weekly podcasts (these, combined with seeing a therapist, have been transformative for me)
https://uk-podcasts.co.uk/podcast/in-sight-2

Videos
Dr Ramani – has been highly recommended here regularly
https://www.youtube.com/@DoctorRamani/videos

Instagram
Useful for bite-size snippets which are supportive and help you feel you’re not alone
https://www.instagram.com/understandingthenarc/
https://www.instagram.com/patrickteahantherapy/
https://www.instagram.com/the.holistic.psychologist/
https://www.instagram.com/gottmaninstitute/
https://www.instagram.com/scapegoatchildrecovery/

Facebook
Peg Streep, has written a book called Daughter Detox
https://www.facebook.com/PegStreepauthor
Narcwise, like Instagram, this account has bite size snippets, often very insightful
https://www.facebook.com/narcwise

Twitter
Nate Postlethwaite
https://twitter.com/nate_postlethwt
Ryan Daigler
https://twitter.com/Ryan_Daigler

Websites
Out of the Fog (lots of information & tools on this website)
https://outofthefog.website/
Mary Toolan Scapegoat Child Recovery (was recommended here, there’s a useful free e-book)
https://www.marytoolan.com/

Short-read Articles
Psychology Today “Narcissist”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissist&op=Search
Psychology Today “Narcissism”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissism&section=All

Books
I haven’t read all of these yet, but have read most and would recommend them
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Toxic In-Laws by Susan Forward
Emotional Blackmail by Susan Forward
Mothers Who Can’t Love by Susan Forward
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents by Lindsay C. Gibson (probably a good first book to read if you're not sure your parent/s is/are narcissistic)
Daughter Detox by Peg Streep
The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel Van Der Kolk
Pulling Your Own Strings by Wayne Dyer (written a long time ago but has good strategies for dealing with people who don't treat you properly)
A couple of other books I have seen recommended by the wise AttilaTheMeerkat and are my to-read list:
Will I Ever Be Good Enough by Karyl McBride and
Codependent No More by Melody Beattie

@JustLaura
It’s a hard decision for you but your instinctive response was no. You have learnt, sadly, the important of setting and maintaining boundaries. It is your DH who is suggesting you change your response, that you might regret it as they are frail. When your parents die, you will be full of regrets, but likely to mainly regret that they were never the parents they should have been and never now will be. Don’t be guilted by your parents or by anyone else into giving into their unreasonable demands - no matter what you do it will never be enough for them, and it won’t make you a GC, and it won’t change the tumult of emotions you will probably feel when they die.You will never have the parents you would have wished for but you can be that parent to your children.

Despite how they have behaved and treated you, you have still, generously, been seeing them every second Christmas Day. Have they ever said how lucky they are you do this? They are unlikely to be phoning GC and remonstrating with him about the change in plans. ( Keep remembering that GC is doing exactly what suits themselves and will not be agonising.) Your parents phoned you, knowing their demand to see you yet again on Christmas Day, with additional and problematic rushing round, would lessen your enjoyment of the day AND your children’s enjoyment of the day. If you visit them, you won’t make them happy, they would really far prefer to be with GC. It is likely your efforts will not be appreciated much at all. It also won’t make you happy.

You now have young children for whom Christmas is magic - this period will not last forever! Your CHILDREN are your responsibility, why spoil their day? You don’t want to go to bed on Christmas Day feeling guilt and resentment about their day, about how you all didn’t enjoy the day as you were rushing about.
Go and see your parents over the Christmas period on a day that works for your family if you feel you need to see them - but hope you feel able to keep your children as the focus on Christmas Day itself and that they, and you, have a happy day.

Morning all 👋 Does anyone mind if I join?

I had a thread in the 30 days section but it would really help to join here if that's okay. I think there's a lot of shared experience that I'd really appreciate.

Here's a quick summary of my situation:

I hate my dad's wife. I've finally admitted it to myself. They've been married 30+ years and I've never liked her. I've tried to for the sake of peace and harmony but I've never really liked her. I find it so stressful being around her. It's like dealing with a child sometimes.

I've got to the point where I can't hold it in anymore and I'm calling her out on bad behaviour. Problem is it doesn't change anything, it just causes an atmosphere. Luckily I only see her a couple of times a year but she's now started to control access to my dad. He's getting older and less independent so she's getting more control now and it's so sad to see.He has to phone me when she's out so she doesn't listen in or try to dominate the conversation. She will literally lurk in the background whilst the call is on speakerphone so you don't know she's there until she speaks. It's weirdly controlling. She would never allow this with her own family.

She's a hypocrite, she's a verbal bully under the guise of 'saying it like it is'.

She says she a devout Christian but has a long history of chasing married men. She had a child with a married man many years ago but he wouldn't leave his wife. She's homophobic and won't have anyone who is gay in her house. She looks down on other forms of Christianity. She bangs on about the end of the world.

She does long droning monologues and doesn't care if people start to glaze over. She tries to dominate conversations by talking at length about tedious stories.

She'll bang on about her DC and about how wonderful they are and how well they are doing. Said DC is middle aged, never had a steady job and is actually very unhappy. They have been on anti depression medication for years and is a functioning alcoholic. This is not speculation they told me themselves how unhappy they are. Its all make believe and pretend. I always felt sorry for them but they seem to want to keep up a game of 'let's pretend' so don't say anything.

My husband can't stand her. She fawns over my young kids so they think she's great but I can see it's an act. The act changed as other kids in the family grew up (she gets critical and starts trying to tell them off in front of their parents when they've gone through the 'cute' phase. It used to make my ex SIL really angry).

I just hate the woman. I'm not blind to the fact my dad has allowed all this happen. I've had to be on pins and needles around her from an early age. Lots of comments like 'that's just how she is' no accountability at all.

I know she's always resented me, it's so obvious but I've never really fully admitted it to myself until now. She'll be nice for a bit, then passive aggressive, then swing back to nice again. She can go through short bursts of being lovely but then go back to being an aggressive bully. You're not sure which one you'll get. It's like Jackyl and Hyde. I've always thought she had mental health issues and I know she was on ADs for a while but no idea what's the real issue.

I find myself just getting so angry with her now and I can't sit and pretend or humour her anymore. Blame peri menopause 😂 I just want to scream 'STFU' at her. Especially when she starts on one of her 'let me tell you why the bible says this group of people is wrong or why the world will end soon'. Its weird, it's almost like she wants it to end just so she's right! It comes across like a child wanting to show off something they've learnt and get praise for it.

I think I've got pre-grief, in that I know what's coming with my Dad and his end of life and I know she'll just make sure I'm pushed aside and unable to see him on his own at the end. My DM died a few years ago so I know what it's like to lose a parent and I can see her doing a power play at the end.

I hate it when my children say nice things about her because I know how she went out of her way to make me feel unwanted in their home when I was a child. She was very passive aggressive, making snide comments and making it as uncomfortable as possible. Any opportunity to try to put me in my place, so I basically voted with my feet.

I've just seen them both recently and I had a confrontation with her. She hated the fact i finally pulled her up on being rude, I could see it in her face. She tried to stomp off but my dad wouldn't move so she was forced to sit there with a face of thunder.

After they left I felt so upset, miserable and sad at how it's turned out. I thought standing up for myself would feel good but I just feel sad.

Anyway, thanks for reading this if you've got this far ☺️

My brother is the golden child and always had other plans plus my SiL is very forceful and understandably doesn’t enjoy my highly toxic NM company, so my sister and I use to get landed alternate years. This year I’m NC so once again swerving it all thank goodness. Be interesting to see if GC steps up to the mark or my Dsis gets landed again. You have my full sympathy as Xmas looming was always so unbelievably stressful, this has thankfully gone after NC. In fact we’re not religious and simply celebrate the Winter Solstice on the 21st now, returning to the light etc. Also because Xmas has so many bad memories for me (Mum use to like spoiling it as it wasn’t about her) I felt the I needed to rebrand it as Yule and start afresh. My husband who is also from a dysfunctional family feels the same thankfully. My advice would be do what feels right for you, we shouldn’t feel we have to spend time with abusers just because we’re biologically connected to them.

So sorry to hear your situation. She sounds like a total textbook Narcissist, my NM would never let us talk to my Dad on the phone either unless on speakerphone with her monitoring. The bit where you said she starts droning monologues sounds very familiar. My NM usually has 5-6 droning toxic poisonous monologues on repeat and just goes on regardless if people glaze over or try to change the subject. My husband use to call it her transmit mode!! The more you read others posts, it validates situations and behaviour we have all experienced. It is a painful process and it is grieving I think, but in my opinion you are doing the right thing to challenge her.

@SkylarkDay Thank you 😊

I think my subconscious has just had enough of the BS from the last 30 odd years. My mouth engaged before my brain and my brain was almost sitting back saying 'interesting...let's see where this goes' 😅

There's definitely something there in terms of mental health. The cognitive dissonance between what she says and choices she's made in her life is quite mind blowing. Utter hypocrisy tbh. I could tell you stories that would make you literally go WTF! about her. But apparently she's a good Christian now so she can talk about it with glee and its all okay.

My lovely step dad (who was married to my late mum) was once at a social gathering with us and was listening to her weird ramblings about how calculating she was at commiting adultery with married men and the lengths she'd go to cover their tracks. This was at my DDs birthday party in front of everyone! My Step dad said to me afterwards he couldn't believe what he was hearing. He was really shocked. Looking back it was just childish attention seeking behaviour.

It made me realise how we had normalised her weird behaviour over the years. My dad just thinks it's all normal and doesn't see what we do. I'm actually angry at him for forcing this person on us and pretending its all normal. It's taken a lot to admit that but the sympathy I had for him is waning. He has made choices and he's now living with the consequences.

I'm sick of pretending and won't do it anymore.

i think this is how you handle being ostracised when he reaches the end. Accept he choose this and still chooses it and there is therefore no blame or guilt to be borne by you.

@UpstartCrows it took a long time like you say, to finally stop seeing the father as a victim, and more as an enabler who expects us all to put up with this individual’s crap and damage. This is what’s allowed me to emotionally break free even from my Dad. My NM was/is the same, judgemental beyond belief, portrays herself as some sort of a good moral straight laced Christian (she’s never been that) but in reality bounced from man to man until she got my dad, blasted me with intimate details of her marriage to my dad since I was about 13/14 yrs old. Usually how he sexually disappointed her. Her outside moral and overly respectable facade is purely to hide the total rot that lies beneath.

@UpstartCrows I am glad you can see that your dad is complicit and every bit as guilty, he enables his wife's behaviour and as hard as it is to accept he does it willingly for his own selfish reasons.

That was the hardest for me to see 'my sweet old dad' as he really was, a manipulative enabler. He stood passively by as my mum ruined our lives. I had always felt sorry for him but realised that was his thing, everyone feeling sorry for him, the attention and us all fussing over him.

Your dad phoning while your mum is supposedly out is all part of their game, the furtive drama, they probably gossip about it after. The overt narcs are easy to spot but the sneaky, covert enablers are hiding behind the chaos. As much as the narcs follow set routines, so do their partners in crime.

For me once I saw it with open eyes I decided if he couldn't behave like a father, I would no longer behave like his daughter. I went NC.

You’ve hit the nail on the head, same here. Suddenly saw how my Dad fed into it all.

That enabling Dad relationship is so hard to navigate. My Dad is the parent that I truly know loves me, and loves all his daughters equally. But he's never been a loving, nurturing father and now in his old age as I've started to call out things and create boundaries, he and my nmum have "teamed up" in a way they never did in my childhood. Back then he was scapegoated and the choice insult for me was I was "just like my father."

I was at home a few months ago and found an old letter buried behind a bunch of photo albums in his bedroom. It was dated '71, when my Dad was a young adult. It was a letter from his aunt to his own father, complimenting him on his "impressive, good-looking son". How "he must be so proud."

That* *both humanised my Dad to me and devastated me. He never had a childhood, his mother was desperately mentally ill and his father was physically abusive and emotionally absent. I've spent my whole life seeing my dad almost as an ally, another victim of my mother, who never had the skills to be an active parent to me. But he kept that letter. Why did he keep that letter? Because he needed that validation and mirroring so much as a child and now as an adult. Why couldn't he give that to his own kids? Why couldn't he tell me he was proud of me on my wedding day, why couldn't he stop my mother from emotionally terrorising his kids? Isn't that your job as a parent, to protect and cherish your kids in a way that you never were protected and cherished?

It's so hard to understand that lack of motivation to do better. It's the thing that drives me on in my own fertility struggles, the desire to be the mother that I never had. I don't get why my Dad can't do that. It's mindbendingly painful.

@wonderingwonderingwondering I wonder if it has anything to do with how mental health is perceived back then. It just wasn’t really talked about or understood. Much more just sweep it under the rug going on and much less support. Sometimes people do what they believe is right but it just isn’t. Not everyone is able to self reflect in the way that can lead to change. I see it as a strength I have and it will lead to cycle change going forward in my family. Look back for guidance only, don’t get too stuck because forward is the direction of change. I think most people blindly parent not realising they are continuing unhealthy behaviours. My partners brother and sister raise there 2 girls to be submissive, to be quiet and obedient. I wonder what will happen to them as adults as they are taught to put others needs above their own, to put kindness and being lovely above having a voice and an identity.

@happyfarm completely true. Both my parents are of that silent generation, emotions are weak and question nothing types. With my mother, I feel there's a cluster B at play and it's felt positively damaging to me, but with my Dad, it's just an incapacity to emote or communicate or address things due to his own trauma, upbringing, toxic masculinity, sense of powerlessness. I can't imagine how one would survive marriage to my mother for 40× years without that particular cocktail of repression and helplessness.

You're totally right about not looking back. I've ruminated so hard on it all, and therapy has taught me it was just another way of avoiding my own feelings and my own pain. The grieving of it is brutal. Future focus is so key. It's a lonely journey to be the only family member looking at things head on, which is its own brutal form of heartache, and then being further isolated, rejected and gaslit for it.

@wonderingwonderingwonderingthe pain is hard, I would rather physical pain than emotional pain. Occasionally I will get caught off guard with feelings, I am not comfortable with feelings that are connected to my family.
My pain became anger and that faded to complete indifference. I have a lovely husband of 30 years, my dogs and good friends, they are my family, the family that I always deserved. I had to accept that my family is seriously dysfunctional and I would never find unconditional love or support there, so I gave myself permission to stop trying. It does get easier, the freedom of NC was a gift to myself, wish I had done it 40 years earlier.

Just dropping in - never thought I'd need this thread but here I am ... it's miserable and disorienting. Anyway hi all. At a party so just a quick post to get myself on the thread.

@almondmilk123
Hello and welcome x

@flapjackfairy thankyou!

@wonderingwonderingwondering this;

The grieving of it is brutal. Future focus is so key. It's a lonely journey to be the only family member looking at things head on, which is its own brutal form of heartache, and then being further isolated, rejected and gaslit for it.

As for. my situation, my dad was a medical psychopath - the good kind ie great for his patients because he was calm and unemotional and accurate, but shit for his three daughters.

He was kept in line by my empathic mother but out of us sisters the middle one has severe and enduring mental illness on the BPD-autism spectrum.

Myself (youngest) and the eldest have carried the burden of proving there is no wider family dysfunction - our parents just got unlucky with the middle sister.

I was well up for that as the middle sister has been violent and destructive all my life.

But after my eldest sister and I had kids our relationship came under strain. I had quite an annoying DH, she had a completely useless partner who gave her no support during a miscarriage, nor when they finally had a child and he nearly died after birth from an infection.

Neither did we support her as that is our family culture - self-reliance. If you have useless partner (her) or get traumatically fired from your job (me) you take your medicine.

Sister became very irrational after this and was hyperfocused on idea of her son's life hanging by thread.

I didn't realise this.

Fast forward and her son is hitting my younger son who it turns out has a disability (autism) which I sensed but couldn't explain.

I was supertactful but Dsis couldn't see it. 'Poor DS' she would say. 'we both need to supervise them better' when it's her DC. Or even, when her DS hit my DS on the willy when he was 6 months old and made him cry piteously with pain, that it's funny.

DDad backed her up - boys will be boys etc.

Eventually me and DH decided to leave London as I couldn't go on with the situation. I thought it would solve things, but my mum was dying at the time and i think I really hurt everybody a lot.

That's kind of where it began. I can't go into all the debates but to cut a long story short my DH is a risk-taking entrepreneur who's thrown a lot of money into projects and landed us in stressful penury.

So my DH has been in the bad books of both Ddad and Dsis.

My mum died and without her to keep him in line my dad decided to put me on the same special measures in his will as my severe and enduring mentally ill sister, because of my DH's behaviour.

My dad also has slow dementia.

It came at a vulnerable time for me - had tried to quit antidepressants and got very close to suicidality, then one of husband's more stable projects hit a massive crisis in which he could have been in trouble with US authorities (failure to file proper paperwork on philanthropic funding - not his fault but he would have been caught up in it).

Dsis and Ddad knew little to nothing of this because i'd given up telling them anything about myself, they were so hostile and disinterested.

My dad told me about the will in the most horrific cold psychoapthic way possible 'I'm going to stick this gigantic needle in your heart because it'll make you better' kind of thing. It was wierd.

Afterwards, I drank a bottle whisky and had a renewed bout of suicidal ideation.

My sister had worked with him on the will, and ushered me to his place on the night with my fucking daughter in tow! So DD saw me destroyed that night.

My Dsis defends the will idea and tbh I don't have a problem with that - I can see their point and in fact had my dad presented the idea to me in a kind way, as my ally and support, I might have been happy with it. It protected me from any stupid financial decision my DH might make. It also prohibited us taking some sensible ones but the stupid thing is my dad was willing to amend that.

But they just couldn't get their heads around any of it. How they knew nothing of my life because the relationship they had with me was already so poor. What my dad's behaviour might say about how our middle sister became ill. How tenuous my trust was with my sister after the situation with our sons, and how honest conversations would be needed to restore that.

My sister refuses to talk about any of it, and has continued to devastate me with the way she conducts herself.

I'm now in the foothills of estrangement with both of them.

They're not the worst villains - many of the families on here sound much worse. Parents like my severe and enduring mentally ill sister - real monsters.

But I'm in therapy examing myself from every angle and they're just continuing with their head-in-sand fuck-how-I-make-others-feel-that's-their-problem bullshit.

i know it all springs from immense fragility on thei parts but i don't see any way forward if they won't also change, and they won't.

Thanks so much if you read this far.

It's a great relief to be among people with similar problems.

Stopped off at the in-laws for 10 minutes today….9 minutes and 30 seconds they talked about his brother. Haven’t seen them in weeks. Good job I didn’t get out of the car! Why my partner is ok to sit and listen and even get involved in a conversation all about his brother I don’t know, suppose he is just so use to it. No way would I accept that.

@almondmilk123 that sounds like a lot. Sorry you've had to navigate that. I relate a lot to your struggle with deep mentally ill family members and a simultaneous head-in-the-sand mentality. I deal with similar. Through therapy and a lot of self reflection/ rumination I've realised honest and no-holds-barred discussion about the damaging things would be the only way of repairing these relationships, but we are way beyond that now as I've had so many bad experiences attempting that, that I no longer possess the will to even try. I've become deeply avoidant with my family in a way that it affects wider relationships too, and I HATE that and acknowledge it's a major character flaw for me, but I currently see no other way. I'm damned if I do. Damned if I don't.

@happyfarm sounds familiar. Is your DH the scapegoat to a GC brother? My inlaws are lovely, healthy people but I struggle to embrace my relationship with them since I've never had a parent that was interested in me. Gc sister has sucked up all the energy for decades now, and before that it was my mentally ill older sibling.

@wonderingwonderingwondering yep my BIL and his family are golden children. In laws have zero interest in our family, it’s sad. My MIL is very annoyed I’ve “taken him” and focus is not all on the golden child. I hardly visit as I’m sick of being told about them and my children compared to the golden grandchildren. MIL has created this jealousy triangle type thing so I’ve backed right off. They do them and I do me.

@Happyfarm Yes! I call it 'The Golden Child Roadshow'. I even say I aren't interested in hearing it but they still continue!

What I don’t get is we doing a shed load more exciting things and life is good but they not interested. The brother just works all day everyday and yeah they have the biggest house, the better car etc but they just in the house on their own. No going out, no friends or adventures, just work, expensive stuff and perfectly behaved kids…it’s boring and mindless. He can’t stop working 7 days a week though, it’s a heavy burden having to be the best. Best thing I did was step us away as we were getting drawn into it and forgetting what life is really about.

Can I join please. Just trying to navigate a huge blow up with my DM. Her recollections of a phone call are completely wrong but she will not accept it and is playing the victim. She continues to keep going with it all and when i asked her to agree to disagree she said I was being controlling. She has always been ill, i have always supported her. She went back to my dad after 9 years apart. Dad keeps saying how will I feel if she dies and we are not speaking and I have no answer to this. They seem to have a very skewed view of our relationship. I feel all at sea but suddenly feel I cannot apologise for something I have not done. I never ask anything of them but apparently they have always done everything for me. I cannot see a way through this

There isn't a way through it mumonthehill but there is a way out of it, if you go NC. You can have your peace back again. Don't deny your own reality, hold tight to the fact you know what happened and it isn't how they say it is. You're not being controlling, the only things you're controlling are your own life and behaviour - and that's as it should be!

@SamAndAnnie there really is no way through it is there. I keep telling myself that it’s ok I can work with it, I’ll just do this or this or this and eventually I’ll learn to live with it. But we can’t stop reacting because we can’t stop being human. Can’t co live with these people. Can’t stop knowing that there are actually family out there who think you’re worthless. Bastards! Sorry @mumonthehill but these people really bother me.