Other half refuses to work...

[pocketpairs]

I would appreciate some genuine advice, so if just going to write "finish relationship", please don't comment.

Both mid 40s, married 18 yrs, 2 DCs. When we got together, DW was very career driven. I grew up in poor family, before we got married , I said in no uncertain terms that "I won't marry someone who won't work (in some form)"

After DC1, she dropped to part time. After DC2 to 1 day w/p, then we mutually agreed she'd stop work until DC was started primary school full time.

Last few years, I've broached the subject about her restarting work, but she's proposed counter-arguments (i.e. who's going to pick DC from school, etc).

Now DC2 is starting secondary school next year, tried to have a serious conversation, and she's said in no uncertain terms she "won't work". She feels we have enough enough to live a comfortable life.

I'm at my wits end, as we don't have enough, and certainly don't have enough for future. Mortgage paid off, I earn £56k (approx), some savings, & £80k pension pot (not much I know!). She has 3 years in DB pension.

So what next?!

I think you are being sensible. Costs will only go up as kids get older and on tour salary the government expects you to part fund the DC at uni if they go. They won't get the full loans to cover all costs.
Given she's a teacher I assume she has some expectations about the possibility of going to uni so maybe it's worth doing one of the several calculators out there and model what it will cost to have a child in uni, and then put that against income. It's great to be happy with what you've got but you do need to be planning a bit for the future

So you never plan on working?

If a man refused to work, then people would be slating him and you’re doing nothing wrong in expecting your wife to get a job. In my circle of friends, I don’t know anyone who remained a sahm whilst kids are in secondary school (sen requirements aside).

if she doesn’t want to work during the day , get an evening job or weekend job. Christmas vacancies will be advertised soon. There really is no excuse.

That’s what the OP is doing, he’s trying to discuss increasing their household income next year when both their DC will be in secondary school & one is getting to Uni stage which will mean paying out more. He’s trying to have the conversation but she’s closing it down!

These days schools are fairly obliged to provide some sort of breakfast and afterschool club provision, do point me to the website of a school with no childcare offering whatsoever eg childminder etc.
Furthermore OP is clear that part time would be fine, his wife could even tutor in the evenings online.
With both children in secondary sch she could even seek a role as a TA in the school they attend which would then have no issues picking up or dropping off.
There are plenty of ways a woman with secondary age children can work and barring special needs, few barriers.
Plenty of men will happily pitch in with the household chores if it means the family have more money coming in and they bear less pressure of being a sole earner

Generally you can do that though when you both work, you just can’t both fly off at a moments notice, I mean we did it, no biggie.

I absolutely agree with you, I think it’s hugely irresponsible not to have a sensible amount in a pension pot and/ or work whilst you can to ensure that you’ll have enough to live on in later life.

I do agree that you might have to take on a bit more in the house, but equally no one is expecting her to go back to a 60 hour week. If she did say 2-3 days a week that’s not going to mean she’ll never have time at home. As a teacher she’s ideally placed.

The other thing is what are you planning to do about possible uni fees- I am trying to build up some savings for that because if you’re a middle earner you’re doubly screwed at the moment- you don’t get any help and the kids don’t even get OFFERED the full loan. Tuition fees are are around 9k a year with rent/ living expenses on top (rent is about £600 a month near us). So unless you’ve already saved for that or you think your kids are doing something different that’s a big consideration too.

I think I would write some figures down and have a really frank conversation with her, about how you see things working long term and how she’s planning on spending the next 20 years. Make the point that you need to be on the same page financially for everyone’s sake (especially the kids). Splitting up sounds drastic but it might be the only way forward.

@Appleblum My husband has that type of job and I work full time. I actually earn more than him - no way would I give up my financial independence.

If she did go back to teaching full time you'd need to do all the sick days (schools don't usually allow time off for sick kids)

Schools don't have the option to say no to this. People are entitled to emergency leave for dependents.
I know a couple who are both secondary school teachers - their 5 & 2 yr old children aren't left alone if they're sick. A teacher takes a day off.

Obviously OP would have to do half the sick days.

All I can suggest, @pocketpairs is that you both sit down and draw up a balance sheet of income and outgoings, hours available and future plans and expectations

I would be fine with him going part time or changing jobs. My kids are not at that age yet but even when they're older housework doesn't magically disappear you know? Someone still has to drive them to school, cook their meals, clean the house, etc. It may get easier in some aspects but new challenges will appear.

Also I would point out that it's because he's in a more senior position now he's also able to 'take in easy' in some ways.

Get a financial advisor involved. Get them to look at the total household finance - her future pension, your future pension etc. Lay out when you want to go part time or retire and what you both want to be able to afford to do in retirement. This gives you an idea for how much you need to afford that lifestyle and then you can do something about it. You need to get her to understand that you are planning a joint future. Her current thinking is very short term and will come back and bite her on the arse later. A financial advisor will be able to set out how much you need to save to afford a good retirement. Make it a team effort to get that, not you grinding out your life working while she looks after the house and kids (which is not a full time job, whatever anyone pretends). Otherwise, resentment will grow, and once that sets it, it can be nigh on impossible to reverse, and people deciding to jump ship.

No they aren't. They have no obligation at all. If they do, please point us to the law saying they do. My own DCs has one but not the other, not going to point you to the website though.

Nobody is saying mothers of secondary age DC can't work, either. That's a strawman. But your claim that there'll definitely be afternoon provision and there's no way the kids would need taking to secondary is complete guesswork. You have no idea, and telling us she could be a TA in the future is a completely different point. OP simply hasn't told us enough information about the practicalities, though he did vaguely seem to regard them as a barrier. You were guessing.

Your wife sounds lazy and selfish. Kids are in high school. They can get themselves to and from school. You need to sit down and have a serious talk with her. If that fails review the future of your relationship. I couldn't be with someone who didn't work.

I don't have any friends who don't work and are still a SAHM once the children are in secondary except one. She is very frustrated now they have all left for college, as she can't get a job and would love one. It's not sensible to step out of the workplace and then try to re-enter at 55 with a twenty year gap of any work whatsoever.

Her working one or two days a week would be ideal from a tax point of view.

This is a really good strategy. You will end up with a joint endeavour to a shared future and your DW will have to engage with future financial realities.

Clearly some feel you should be doing picking up/dropping off your DC up from school...

So...
Go PT yourself...Obviously you'll only be getting half of the wages...
But at least you'll be doing half the drop offs/pick ups.
Do half the house work.
Pay half off all bills.

Then your DW can go out to work PT and do exactly the same as you do...

I'm happy and it works well for our family currently. I'm not work shy and if circumstances change in the future what's to say that I'll never work again?

It wouldnt for gods sake, do you actually know what financial abuse is?

No one needs to do any drop offs and pick ups. That was her reason why she didn't work when they were in primary. The OP is now talking about her working when the kids are in secondary.

Financial/retirement advisor isn't a bad idea. Because that's where the main problem is here. 56k plus child benefit and no housing or childcare costs will be comfortable enough in the here and now, but as things stand DW isn't going to even have a full state pension. If she was on this thread I'd be telling her she needed to start thinking about that, sharpish.

But OP’s DC are older one is 17! There’s no reason they shouldn’t be taking on extra chores like cooking dinner for the family one night a week. In fact it’s good for them. Putting a wash load on themselves is better than heading off to Uni without knowing how to use a washing machine.

But at the moment you don’t plan to ever work? I appreciate you are saying that if circumstances change but if your marriage was to end (and you can’t say it never will) are you worried about your lack of financial independence?

And you may think your husband would treat you well financially if you did split, but trust me, separation does things to people that you wouldn’t expect!

I would have an honest look at your division of responsibility together, and try to unpick why she doesn't want to work. Could be a lack of confidence, or she's just lazy. Or worried about fitting stuff in.

If she does absolutely everything domestic / life admin you may need to pick up some slack. I agree it's quite frustrating for you though. I wouldn't want to be married to someone who refused to work.

You're actually not in a bad position financially having said that. We are same age with smaller pension, fewer savings and a big mortgage which means our take home is probably not much more than yours ,without the the luxury of having one parent at home which I imagine must make life a lot easier.

Of course it's financial abuse! In marriage finances are shared by law, you're suggesting that she's allowed no access to shared finances. She can't even buy a coffee or get a hair cut and you think that's acceptable behaviour?!