Other half refuses to work...

[pocketpairs]

I would appreciate some genuine advice, so if just going to write "finish relationship", please don't comment.

Both mid 40s, married 18 yrs, 2 DCs. When we got together, DW was very career driven. I grew up in poor family, before we got married , I said in no uncertain terms that "I won't marry someone who won't work (in some form)"

After DC1, she dropped to part time. After DC2 to 1 day w/p, then we mutually agreed she'd stop work until DC was started primary school full time.

Last few years, I've broached the subject about her restarting work, but she's proposed counter-arguments (i.e. who's going to pick DC from school, etc).

Now DC2 is starting secondary school next year, tried to have a serious conversation, and she's said in no uncertain terms she "won't work". She feels we have enough enough to live a comfortable life.

I'm at my wits end, as we don't have enough, and certainly don't have enough for future. Mortgage paid off, I earn £56k (approx), some savings, & £80k pension pot (not much I know!). She has 3 years in DB pension.

So what next?!

ok well first of all, leave is genuine advice. It may not be advice you don't want to hear but not wanting to hear it does not mean it is not genuine.

But you don't want to leave and there's no point even suggesting it to her if it's an empty threat because empty threats are manipulative bullshit so what else can you do?

Cancel all unnecessary things - subscriptions etc. cut back on shopping, find things to cut that are her things and tell her that if she wants them then she needs to work to pay for them.

I would feel it is unfair as well. It’s obviously going to be hard to go back to work after such a long time but you have a right to expect her to at least try.

Maybe she’s feeling out of touch with the world of work, a lack of confidence issue? Is there anything, a hobby, an interest that she’s really into? She could maybe get work in that sphere?

A lot of otters have addressed the issue of ‘who will do the HW, parenting etc…’ if she goes back to work.

I want to point out the difference in outlook on ‘we have enough to live’.
She feels you’re (together) doing ok. You’re not.
It could be because of differing background or simply feeling that a simpler life is enough vs wanting the financial protection a higher combined wage gives (incl pension). Or maybe she has her head in the sand etc….
This is a discussion to have, probably more with a financial advisor who will (rightly imo) point out that pension isn’t enough and she is at high risk if you divorce (or something happens to you).

Then you have your own red line about her working.
The issue here is that you agreed on her not working despite the fact you clearly have an issue with it.

I also want to highlight that, if she is going back to work now, she won’t be going back to what she was doing after all these years. So she’ll have to agree on doing a much lower paid job, less responsibility, less interesting/rewarding too.
I can see why she’d be baulking at the idea of doing that AND still taking on all the HW etc… (assuming you made no move to reassure her you’d be stepping up and take in 50% of all the parental duties, cleaning AND mental load - aka you won’t just be ‘helping’ - despite not having done so since the dcs were born).

Basically, you wanting her to work isn’t enough. She won’t be doing that just because you want her to do it.
If you want to saving your marriage, you need to start communicating better and seeing things from her pov. Incl acknowledging any fears she has or the fact she feels you have enough money coming in. EVEN IF you disagree.

You also need to wake up to the fact it might be enough to split you up. In which case, will you be happy to take on the dcs 50% of the time? (And why don’t you do it now?)

I would appreciate some genuine advice, so if just going to write "finish relationship", please don't comment.

bit silly. FWIW you can't make her work. So boot her out. This will have a cost for you, but only you know if that price is worth paying. The very fact that you know plenty of us will come with LTB means that you know it is one of the more serious but plausible options.

If I were in the situation I would help my wife log into Gov.uk pension forecast/NI contributions - and see how she reacted to the info there and wether that generated a discussion. I might also suggest that I was thinking of dropping to part time myself….and see if that also generated a discussion.

I would also be planning and talking about what I wanted in the next 10 to 15 years (more travel and leisure)
(I don’t think I could continue a relationship in those circumstances).

These comments if it was a woman writing about a man it would be pages and pages of throw the cocklodger out but because it's a man writing about a woman that apparently doesn't apply and what she's doing is apparently completely acceptable

If she was a teacher then while she could go back into that industry it's not going to be easy.

Depending on whether she was primary or secondary trained and where you are in the country she might find us absolutely impossible to get a job (primary in Cornwall for example) or incredibly easy (secondary maths in London).

However all schools hate to have part time teachers for timetabling reasons and so she no matter what she's trained in she'd almost certainly need to get a full time teaching job to begin with.

Full time teaching usually means on-site from 8am-4pm plus meetings afterwards and two or three hours work each evening.

I recently left teaching after twenty years in education and so so many people are either leaving or going part time because the workload is horrific.

If she did go back to teaching full time you'd need to do all the sick days (schools don't usually allow time off for sick kids) and realistically you'd need to pick up all the housework and life admin.

You mention online tutoring - again, depending on what she is trained in there is either massive demand or no-one wants it. There is big demand for gcse English and gcse maths tutoring. Anything else, not so much. So if she's (for example) early years trained then there is no demand. If she teaches geography at secondary level there is no demand.

Where there is demand - so say maths or English - parents want in person these days.
So she'd be working evenings and weekends (and so still sitting around the house during school hours) and either they'd come to you (so you need to give up a room in your house) or she travels to them,

He'll probably say he earns more so she still
Has to do all those things. Seen this time after time.

OP, you would not have got ahead and had a chilled work life if the children and home life were not taken care of through your wife's work. Have some respect for her career sacrifice so you can get ahead.

I think you need to start putting more of your income into pension. Any disposable income you currently give her, put into the pension instead. Explain this is necessary to fund your joint retirement. Also very tax efficient esp for higher rate tax payers. Continue to fund all bills and child activities. Her “wage” is the very generous share of that. If she wants disposable income, she needs to work for it, even if that’s only a Saturday or a few evenings a week. She might be more motivated if there are no extras for her unless she takes personal responsibility for earning that income.

'If they're 'adults' they can get a job!'

Well, the OP's DW is an adult so surely she can get a job too?

I struggle to understand why I would do all day with children in secondary school. I work full time and more and I still have a clean and tidy house, do laundry and cook dinners 🤷🏻‍♀️

That would be financial abuse and I'm surprised to see someone on MN advocating for it.

Um, this is financial abuse.

If they are married then her divorcing him for abuse will not help the situation as he will have even fewer assets.

I really don't know. Appreciate that I am looking at just 1 perspective, but 1 days work a week, will just have a marginal impact on our responsibilities. I have proposed her just doing 3-4 hours of online tuition per week (£100-120).

DCs may be going university, and with my income level won't get full maintenance grant, so how do we afford things like this..

Why would he have to pick up all the house work and life admin whatever the hell that is he is also working full time are women not capable of working and doing their share of housework

Her previous job as a teacher gives more context as to why she doesn't want to return to work. If she's been out of the profession for approx 7+ years she will have heard many horror stories and know the job is unrecognisable.
It also wouldn't be easy to just pick up online tutoring she may be lacking confidence and would need to get up to date about curriculum changes.
If she won't work then you need to sit down together and look at what you need to be saving for retirement then decide what cutbacks need to be made. If life is comfortable just now and you are living in the moment of course she's not going to see. You should also consider what would happen if you were made redundant or health changes meant you couldn't work

She's probably still getting the NI contributions now, as the youngest is under 12 and they're under the child benefit threshold, but good point. There's only another year or two of that left. They have a decent enough income now, but it's not looking like a great retirement.

I agree with you OP. She can work part time, tutoring, term time. Build up her pension and contributions; but some people just want to live for the day to day, don’t want to plan. Many want to stay at home given the choice.

I would have having to rely on DH for everything and loose my independence

I have 3 children and was a sahp for 3 years. I then did childminding for a further 3 years. After that I had part time jobs that fit around kids and DHS job, it suited me.
I never agree when people say running a household and childcare is a full time job it's not, medical needs notwithstanding.
Has she put any thought into what she'll live on if anything happens to you? Or does your pension give her a lifetime interest?
My pride and self worth wouldn't let me sponge off someone else no matter how many school runs I did.

Point out that she's going to have a miserable old age with little money.

My late husband and I were both teachers. I was a middle manager. Retired at 58 (unwillingly) because of husband's bad health. For a year, I'd cut my hours to 4 days a week because of his health, but got less money with the same amount of work. Asked to go down to 3 days. That was refused.

My teaching pension is okay, but it would have been a lot better if I'd worked full time until 60. (I get about 18k.) My husband thought that I'd inherit his teaching pension plus the extra Prudential Pension he'd taken out (AVCs). The Pru pension died with him.

He was a late entrant to teaching, so his combined State Pension and Teaching Pension was about 18k a year. I get 4k of his Teaching Pension now.

I'm a lot better off than some. Maybe mention these figures to your wife and ask how well she thinks she's going to cope living off Pension Credit?

OP why do you think she is refusing to work?
Has she completely lost confidence?
Or is she just wanting you to provide for the whole family while she does nothing to bring in any additional income?

You say you don't want suggestions to end the marriage, so what are you hoping to get out of this thread?

Once the youngest hits 12 I believe she looses her ni credit for child benefit - certainly worth find work that pays at least enough to get that, a full state pension is the minimum she needs going forward.

How about encouraging her to talk to a careers advisor of some description, I suspect she's actually really worried about going back into work, not wanting to teach but having no idea what else. Been there (only 8 years out of the work force) and it was hard, plus I lost jobs because of the kids needing to be collected from school in emergency.

Perhaps a school admin role, teaching assistant or working for a charity that is flexible would work, don't emphasise salary level, just the leap back into work at this stage, perhaps 20 hours a week. I still work 20 hours and it's actually perfect being a bit older as I can manage it with appointments, being more tired (menopause) etc

Then, in the nicest possible way, you need to start knowing.

Apart from her saying that you have enough money, what are her reasons for refusing to work at all?

Is she anxious about returning to the work place? Is she worried that you won't pull your weight with cooking/cleaning etc?

It is unusual for one member of a couple to never return to work once the children are fairly independent, unless the other one has an extremely high income.