Other half refuses to work...

[pocketpairs]

I would appreciate some genuine advice, so if just going to write "finish relationship", please don't comment.

Both mid 40s, married 18 yrs, 2 DCs. When we got together, DW was very career driven. I grew up in poor family, before we got married , I said in no uncertain terms that "I won't marry someone who won't work (in some form)"

After DC1, she dropped to part time. After DC2 to 1 day w/p, then we mutually agreed she'd stop work until DC was started primary school full time.

Last few years, I've broached the subject about her restarting work, but she's proposed counter-arguments (i.e. who's going to pick DC from school, etc).

Now DC2 is starting secondary school next year, tried to have a serious conversation, and she's said in no uncertain terms she "won't work". She feels we have enough enough to live a comfortable life.

I'm at my wits end, as we don't have enough, and certainly don't have enough for future. Mortgage paid off, I earn £56k (approx), some savings, & £80k pension pot (not much I know!). She has 3 years in DB pension.

So what next?!

Would your job allow you to be part time?
You would be entirely reasonable to suggest you do that after so many years of FT, she start PT work and you both job share the household and kids.

Or even that she work FT and you do all that she does now. Why shouldn’t you have the luxury of time with the kids or in the house.

However posters try to coat this she is being very unreasonable and you are well within rights to be saying you need this to change. Marriage is a partnership and right now she has the best end of the bargain- essentially she gets to do what she pleases. A 17 year old and a12 year old do not create enough work for an adult to be FT at home and tbh

it sounds like you do plenty in the home.

Resentment is the death of a marriage so be honest with her about how you feel and how that will grow and her reaction will help you decide your future I think.

Well go out and get one, then!

Yes, I was able to take time off and/or wfh when dc was ill, and so was DH. Yes, I had flexible working arrangements that enabled me to do more than half of the school runs, and DH did the others. Yes, I did the shopping, but after work. Yes, I was able to organise deliveries for a time when someone was home to receive them, or else I just used Amazon lockers or other pick up locations. Yes, dh and I both shared stuff stuff like cooking and housework. And no, my role was not undemanding but I learned to manage my energy so that there was always plenty left for dd - in many ways, my time with her is what helped me to recharge.

I did all of the above in multiple different roles and in two very different sectors. I made sure that I was good at what I did and that gave me leverage to negotiate.

People can make it work if they want to. Whether that means flexible working, using paid childcare, help from extended family or sharing arrangements with friends. Yes, it can be a juggling act at times, but it's ridiculous to suggest that it can't be done... tons of families are already doing it very successfully.

Mumsnet is really quite capitalist 😂

I watched my SIL lead this kind of life for years (vicar's wife) and while it wouldn't have been for me (and unlike the OP/his DW, she had retirement provision) she undeniably did a lot of good with her volunteer work and it was a springboard for her eventually into paid work when she wanted that.

But if volunteering isn't considered worthwhile by the partner, then it's always going to cause tension.

I have had several friends who worked while their children were at nursery and primary, with wraparound care. But gave up work for several years when their kids hit secondary.

All this talk of how teaching is hard to get back to and can’t be PT etc is all a moot point anyway- no one is saying she has to teach.

There are loads of other jobs she could get. Literally loads as she’s clearly literate and has people skills.

I'd tell her your separating your finances and saving more for your future. If she doesn't care about her future fair enough but she doesn't get to spend your money.

If she doesn't want to work she can't expect you to find her swanning around being a do gooder. Your kids are plenty old enough for her to be working at least part time.

I work FT and am a high earner. Yes, my job allows me to take time off when the DC are sick. Which is rarely, because they aren't 2 any more. I work before dropoff time, then do dropoff. Then I work a bit more after I pick them up.

This kind of flexibility is often more likely in high earning jobs where you don’t need to find cover for shifts or have a class needing a teacher in front of them.

I honestly think women who are SAHP for too long get a bit delusional. How on earth do you think families with two working parents navigate life ffs.

Except she hasn't only given up for a few years. She has given up for over a decade. OP has listed out the things he helps with as well as having a full time job. I don't see what he did as putting his career first, they agreed to put their children first while they were young. A £56k salary and a £86k pension pot are hardly stellar for your interpretation of events.

I would say it is more of a warning to spouses to listen to what their partners are really trying to say, and not act all surprised when years of simmering resentment boil over into one walking out.

She has broken the psychological contract of their relationship. She knew she had married a man for whom long term financial security and a wife who worked was important. They agreed a short term change to her employment status and she has continually reneged on her side of that. She is still not listening to him now.

The youngest will be 11 turning 12 when starting secondary school which is the point OP is discussing returning to work, the child will not be 10.
Assuming an 11 or 12 year old can get the school but which their older sibling already gets is hardly proof that OP has never seen childcare as his responsibility! Youre really bloody reaching with that one.

He doesn’t want his wife to work full time as that would inconvenience him.
He has never said that, it’s just as likely he hasn’t broached full time as the wife is already outrageously resistant to ever working even in a part time capacity.

HI OP, I AM WRITING IN CAPS SO THAT YOU TAKE NOTICE OF WHAT I AM SAYING AMIDST THE HUNDREDS OF MESSAGES.

If you want your wife to have more qualifying years on her NI record then get her to apply for Carer’s Credit if she has elderly parents or relatives. Also, getting Child Benefit in her name for your two children automatically gives her NI credits whether she works or not, even if you have to pay some of it back because you earn more than £50k.

Also, teaching is a horrendously stressful job. Even tutoring is stressful because it involves lots of planning.

By contrast, she can be an after school nanny for 4-20 hours a week and hardly feel like she’s working and get good money like £15-20 an hour.

She can do simple conversation sessions on Cambly for $10.20 an hour that involves no planning and she can work whenever she wants- there’s always ALWAYS work available on there and it’s really flexible. If she earns more than £1000 a year from that then she needs to declare it as tax.

Honestly, if this was a man refusing to work the responses on here would be apoplectic. I feel for OP (I’ve not read all 30 pages) but she has no valid reason from what he’s said. Picking the kids up is hardly an insurmountable issue. I’d heavily resent a partner who did this and expected me to provide everything financially…

This is all so stupid. There’s nothing to say op didn’t value his wife’s contribution or that he’s angry that she’s not had a career. He’s asking her to get whatever job she wants to do in order to earn at least her NI contributions and her tax free allowance. Aka mega part time.

All these suggestions of how much house work he’ll have to pick up if she does a day or twos work a week are ridiculous. If she was so busy with all this drudgery she wouldn’t have time to do all the volunteering op mentioned.

I think the additional piece of the budget you need to include ( and sorry for being possibly macabre ) is the what does the financial situation look like if something happens to me and if something happens to you. The answer is if you are left on your own you will be broadly ok with your full state pension and small personal pension , if your DW is left as a widow life will be really tough with incomplete NI contributions for her pension and therefore not eligible for a full state pension, and while eligible for pension credit this will be impacted and reduced if she inherits some savings from you - it’s a tough equation.

I had to do this with my parents as my DM had stayed at home for a number of years and after brushing it off , and they were struggling to manage in the family home and we were looking to get them to downsize. We got them to downsize as DM now realises she has a real problem if my DD passes first and had become much more sensible about expenditure ( previously demanding multiple holidays etc.)

I think if you couch it in these terms it might help her to understand the importance of part time work to build her NI contributions to protect her future if anything happens to you.

“Housework is not a job.”

That’s not true. If, like OP, you don’t want to do housework you have to either a) live in squalor or b) pay someone else to do it. Or conduct yourself in a way which forces your spouse to do your share so that you don’t have to.

“Childcare, once the kids are school age, is not a job.”

Not true. In primary school if, like the OP, you don’t want to cut short your paid employment day to pick your kids up yourself, you have to pay someone to pick them up. Or conduct yourself in a way ensures your spouse finds herself in the position of doing all the childcare. And if that results in her sacrificing her career, happy days: you’ll have an excuse to slag her off on the internet - which the misogynists will absolutely love.

“It's a lifestyle choice that BOTH partners must agree to. Since that is not the case here, a person of integrity would get a job. finally start doing his share of the housework to demonstrate that he sees his wife as an equal partner, not as some sort of non-salaried employee.”

Fixed it for you.

Some of us are out there every day competing with men who have SAH wives. It's just exacerbating the problem and we won't break down the inequality until this stops.

I realised this from my PhD onwards - I was in competition with men who had wives who did their footnotes for them, as well as doing all the household stuff so their brilliant husbands (reflected glory perhaps?) could shine.

I don't want to turn this conversation into a broader topic, but my I usually cleaning bathroom, (1/2) clubs, ironing and majority of homework and food shopping. She takes care of everything else to a good standard, apart from cooking (she hates that).

When I say good standard I mean, I don't mean taste, rather pasta and say sauce from a jar for example.

I suggest you do a search on the OP’s replies. You may feel less sympathetic.

It sounds like you need to get on the same page about whether additional income is needed before making suggestions about what jobs you think she could do. Until she agrees with you on that fundamental point you’re unlikely to make progress. So work out what your monthly expenses are and what your pension will be, and see if there is a big difference. Have a joint discussion about whether you want to financially support your children at university and how much that will cost.

I think it is totally unacceptable that you are expected to bear the total financial burden of supporting your family. I would consider leaving. It is so selfish of your partner.

I'd forgotten that aspect. My mother proofread, edited and promoted my stepdad's research (he's a retired professor) for decades. He was financially controlling before it was made illegal, so she couldn't return to work even if she'd had the confidence.

Great suggestion. That might an avenue I haven't considered, she loves charitable work, so maybe something in that direction may interest her more.

She’s not doing any job that’s the problem, she doesn’t work. Heworks thr one job that keeps everyone. Pays for everything

I suspect he’s avoiding it because he knows the verbal pasting he will get on here. You have already made your mind up.

There's a lot of talk about what the wife now doesn't have to do for the children because they're older now. Nobody is asking OP what she has to do for HIM. That doesn't change. Is he a messy fucker who is constantly dumping his shit all over the place, leaving it for her to clean up. He's already admitted he does pretty much fuck all round the house apart from clean the bog when he's had a shit and occasionally irons one of his own shirts. (Yes, pal, you are that transparent) Typical blind man. Doesn't see anything but what he does. She does everything she does while he is out of the house, hence he imagines she does NOTHING AT ALL. He has avoided near enough all questions about what he does round the house, apart from one post where he said he didn't want to go down the "rabbit hole" this would open up. That's because he knows full well when he admits what he doesn't do, the majority will turn on him.

Someone mentioned Shrodinger's Wife. I think that poster hit the nail on the head.