Other half refuses to work...

[pocketpairs]

I would appreciate some genuine advice, so if just going to write "finish relationship", please don't comment.

Both mid 40s, married 18 yrs, 2 DCs. When we got together, DW was very career driven. I grew up in poor family, before we got married , I said in no uncertain terms that "I won't marry someone who won't work (in some form)"

After DC1, she dropped to part time. After DC2 to 1 day w/p, then we mutually agreed she'd stop work until DC was started primary school full time.

Last few years, I've broached the subject about her restarting work, but she's proposed counter-arguments (i.e. who's going to pick DC from school, etc).

Now DC2 is starting secondary school next year, tried to have a serious conversation, and she's said in no uncertain terms she "won't work". She feels we have enough enough to live a comfortable life.

I'm at my wits end, as we don't have enough, and certainly don't have enough for future. Mortgage paid off, I earn £56k (approx), some savings, & £80k pension pot (not much I know!). She has 3 years in DB pension.

So what next?!

Also perhaps she's lost some confidence - to change jobs in her mid 40s, especially if she's perimenopausal (which can affect confidence and energy levels).

With the best will in the world that doesn’t (shouldn’t) mean you just roll over and give up with potentially almost half your life left to live, especially when it impacts your partner and kids.

Exam marking isn't really an option for KS2 teachers. There are a few SATs markers, but it's nothing like the income available for marking for GCSEs and A levels. If your DW worked in a private prep school for all / most of her career, tutoring 11+ or 13+ might be an option, but it will be evenings and weekends, so it will be an end to family time together, and it is somewhat seasonal. There is (used to be?) a bit of a market for online English tuition in China. If you she can find a company offering that, it might work out. But there are literally thousands of primary teachers desperate to get out of the classroom, so competition will be intense. Realistically, she should join one of the many communities of ex-teachers looking for alternative careers. The Open University has a LOT of them for example.

You wouldn't need to pay child support if you looked after the children 50/50, which should be possible once they are both at senior school/ one has left home and gone to University. Yes, you would need to live in a smaller/ cheaper house though. How much would that bother you?
Remember, it would also be a negative thing for the children to have an unhappy and resentful man as their father.

@pocketpairs definitely try and cost the uni up as well for her, I’ve been quite shocked myself how much the majority of parents have to end up contributing. As a mother, does she not feel she wants her kids to be financially helped, I’m really surprised she said that about uni as if she was a teacher, surely she knows it’s not as simple as that? Who knows what they will want to study or if they get a uni place the other end of the country.

https://www.theguardian.com/global/commentisfree/2015/jun/26/stay-at-home-mums-working-mothers

This is from America but is relevant to the UK too

https://www.forbes.com/sites/maryroeloffs/2024/04/19/how-valuable-are-stay-at-home-parents-they-do-about-4500-of-unpaid-labor-per-month-new-study-says/

Problem is, not many employers will accept people only working 9-3. There’s usually a requirement to also offer weekends or earlier starts/later finishes, and also the OP’s thought of just a few hours work isn’t going to be easy to fulfil either.

Is that not your conversation with your wife - how resentful you feel and how this will just grow. If she doesn’t listen then I would really have to think about whether she cares about you, your worries and your stress (its not like she has any stress really unless there is a back story here around caring responsibilities/ her mental health etc). Because you could argue she doesn’t!! she hasn’t listened so far.

I think you have every right to feel how you do (again as long as there is no back story!) and as long as you have a plan on how you will do more (if she goes back to work) you are entitled as one half of a partnership to have these feelings and conversations. What are your plans to help more - after school club pick up? birthday present shopping? paying the bills? be specific this is what I will do more off if you work. I would also be clear that you would support any return to teaching courses or training for a new job, support with CV development etc to build her confidence.

You need to be true to yourself, can you live like this going forward (because I couldn’t I find a lack of wanting to work really unattractive) - what is your line in the sand?

I have an acquaintance whose H left her as soon as both kids were 18 plus/ finished in education as she refused to work - he consistently offered to flex his work and do more round the house and was clear about the support he needed to reduce his stress - his eventual line in the sand was I will stay while my kids need me and my income. You need to think about what you need from this partnership and whether she is the one for you moving forward.

I honestly believe she is out of order - I think her putting all the financial pressure on you is unacceptable- your kids are old enough to look after themselves post school, your 17 yo will be driving soon and can certainly be left for a while in bed if poorly!! You need a plan for sickness for the 11 yo but at the end of the day many thousands of parents find a way!

Seriously??

Expecting an equal partner, and that an able adult work for pay once the kids are in school, is not casting her aside after he's had his use of her. How utterly absurd.

He could justifiably, and even more so, accuse HER of using HIM as a means to an end, which is basically what she has done and intends to continue doing.

His pension would be a lot bigger if he hadn't been supporting the household with zero financial contributions from her. And sorry, taking credit for his career progression would be bullshit. Most people progress the same with or without a stay-home dependent.

If she was willing to work or start looking for work, or path to some sort of work, in a year or two, I wouldn't have posted on here. She doesn't want to work period (welcome to the club)...

Personally i wouldn’t class someone with two teenage children out at secondary school all day, one very soon to be in uni as stay at home mothers. They aren’t mothering on anywhere near the same capacity as with young children and arguably barely any more than those working full time.

If she were to get a job out of the home, say every Tuesday and it wasn't teaching - who will look after the youngest child during all the school holidays.
Will you be taking a day's annual leave ?

as you can't expect your eldest child to look after the youngest, and is it safe to leave the youngest home alone during the day...

Or would the youngest child have to attend holiday club or something similar - if so, who would pay for that...

I actually don't like the idea of SAHP altogether (ignoring extenuating circs) as we all have a duty to earn and pay tax.

But ignoring that, SAHDs are still a tiny minority. Added to which, women have been fighting for equality for years and yet SAHMs are far more common still and thats what we're talking about here with the OP. A SAHM just supports a man so that he doesn't have to leave the office to do the school run, doesn't have to take time off to look after a sick child or cover any lack of holiday clubs - and that makes his route to career progression much easier compared to a working parent. If it was the norm that both parents worked (PT or FT) then there would be a far more even distribution of these tasks - and house work/life admin.

And neither does the OP.

@pocketpairs i do feel like your OH might be in a bind and finding a job which fits all the criteria the two of you want it to might be a real challenge. Or impossible!
But I think given how you feel that this is something that really needs the two of you to have a sensible conversation about it and find out what her resistance comes from.

OP, for the thousandth time, would you support her if she got a full time job that meant you had to step up more around the house and kids? You’ve been asked this so many times that it seems you are actively avoiding the question at this point, which would imply that no, you would not, you want your life to remain unchanged, which makes you just as unreasonable and selfish.

I think your biggest barrier is that there is no benefit to her. She will start working, but only enough hours so that your work is not effected. So what you are effectively saying is you want her to work and continue to raise the kids and run the house.

She's going to find it hard to get a job in education. She will find it hard to gain employment as there isn't the same lack of primary as secondary. She'll end up going back at the bottom of the pay scale, but I would personally hire a newly qualified whose knowledge was fresh. I also wouldn't hire her as a tutor because she's been out of the classroom too long and again, I'd go with someone who has more experience than she does. When I signed up to be an examiner, they wanted a reference from a current school employer.

If you are wanting her to give something up for the benefit of the family, then I'm afraid it will also require you to give something up too. What if you did compressed hours and did some pick ups some nights?

again £56k isn't enough to facilitate a life time sahp with 2 double digit children.

while the idea is nice that being at home facilitates more earning for roles which require flexibility and long hours etc. that would not be a £56k salary so the argument doesn't wash.

between the two of them they can work out a choice chart adjust the children's schedules accordingly.

OP you ether cut your own hours or separate. 8 years of CMA, sell the house and get somewhere smaller maybe kids share as one is off to uni soon.

yes, you'll lose half the pension but if you have a career plan you can increase your salary and max your contributions for the next 15/20 and you should be fine.
Don't be bullied into being the only one working for the next 20 years. you'll get fed up and leave anyway and be at a bigger loss with less time to rectify

you see so many people posting on here in the after of 20 years of excuses who've finally had enough.

My youngest has just started secondary and I’m ready to go back to work. Agree that SAHMs work - trust me, we do! I’m totally grateful that finances have allowed me to have such a long time at home although my husband is away half the week and my son is autistic and has poor attendance - so the idea of me working did feel a bit precarious given we have absolutely no support in any sense.

anyway I’m applying the lobster in a pot philosophy to get them all used to me no longer being at home. I cannot effin WAIT and feel like I’ll be leaving prison …!

Im starting off with

1. temp work which feels less over whelming.
2. My kids also need to start getting the school bus home -10 miles away so not that bad.
3. I’m also making them do their homework at the library so they’re in the habit of getting that sorted without me.
4. my kids are gradually going more and more around the house and are used to getting instructions from me via the family WA chat.
5. my husband is prepared to do half the housework as this is what it will take. It could be that your wife “knows” she will end up doing two jobs essentially. What do you do around the house OP? Honestly, this is my biggest concern. If I am left sorting laundry and unloading dishwashers the minute I walk through the door, I’ll be in a total strop.
6. school holidays: how are you going to manage them? Sure you’ll have more money but you’ll have less choice as to what to do with Annual Leave as a lot of it will be used to cover school holidays.

so… ask her why she doesn’t want to go back to work and work on the solutions with her. I don’t think there’s much excuse once your kids are in secondary!

The kids are secondary aged and should be capable of getting themselves to school and she is a competent adult who needs to contribute to the family finances unless the other adult is in agreement and willing to support her which you’ve said you’re not. I can understand that she may be reluctant to go back to work after having a period of time at home to support the family in a different way but it’s not retirement time yet and you are moving into new phases of your life together. It’s not fair to rely on just one party to sort you both out forever. Obviously her going back to work will mean you need to step up at home and ensure you’re doing 50/50.

As an aside.
When your DW gave up work to have your kids did you not agree you would contribute to her private pension, the same as you were to yours?

Can I vote for this thread to go in Classics? With the title: “A Warning To SAHMs - Here’s A Crystal Ball.”

So that every time some poor woman posts on here about how exhausted and stressed she is juggling her job around the nursery and school run, and household chores, and life admin, with her employer getting frustrated with her, and she asks on here for advice about giving up work for a few years in an attempt to simply survive, as her husband is putting his career first and refusing to help….. someone can just post a link to this thread for a live demonstration of the risks of sacrificing her career for a man who puts his own career and convenience first.

Why can’t they easily split that between them, mixed with a few clubs? He will be in secondary school and turning 13, the odd half day at home should he fine.

People are acting like the kids are preschoolers and the OP has said he never spends any time with them! Given part of the reason he doesn’t want to divorce is so he doesn’t lose access to his children why do you think being with his child during the holidays would be so cumbersome?

She isn't "just rolling over" though.

OP says she's doing voluntary work. Which is the first step towards potentially returning to paid employment.