Other half refuses to work...

[pocketpairs]

I would appreciate some genuine advice, so if just going to write "finish relationship", please don't comment.

Both mid 40s, married 18 yrs, 2 DCs. When we got together, DW was very career driven. I grew up in poor family, before we got married , I said in no uncertain terms that "I won't marry someone who won't work (in some form)"

After DC1, she dropped to part time. After DC2 to 1 day w/p, then we mutually agreed she'd stop work until DC was started primary school full time.

Last few years, I've broached the subject about her restarting work, but she's proposed counter-arguments (i.e. who's going to pick DC from school, etc).

Now DC2 is starting secondary school next year, tried to have a serious conversation, and she's said in no uncertain terms she "won't work". She feels we have enough enough to live a comfortable life.

I'm at my wits end, as we don't have enough, and certainly don't have enough for future. Mortgage paid off, I earn £56k (approx), some savings, & £80k pension pot (not much I know!). She has 3 years in DB pension.

So what next?!

@pocketpairs

Many people have asked you to detail your physical contribution to the running of the house, in terms of tasks and effort.

It's a fair question and as far as I can see, you haven't answered?

Of course it'll impact me if she goes back to work...maybe I'm wrong, but think (Or hope) the impact will be marginal with her working 1/2 days a week.

Or the OP could.

I don't think the context matters that much. The OP doesn't want to be the sole provider, and the kids are already secondary age. Unless there are disabilities that the OP hasn't mentioned, it isn't reasonable for the wife to just expect him to keep providing while she enjoys a life of leisure.

These are good points

And another poster upthread said that ONS details that women spend much more time on domestic tasks than men.

But what is a necessary domestic task? I dont do half, a quarter even of what I read about on here, 'deep cleans', linen and towels in the wash constantly, washing coats (never washed a coat), diy coming out peoples ears, cleaning out cupboards, decluttering blah blah blah, its exhausting reading about it sometimes.

Yet my home is cleanish (and I do have a cleaner for a basic do over once a week - if she is on holiday or sick I dont touch it), its not a hovel, doesnt smell and Im well turned out (dont do any ironing either).

So perhaps men wouldnt do as much of the domestic tasks but would that mean the house would fall down around them? Would it mean the kids arent fed and watered and clothed?

And thank god there is recognition of this nonsense that 'if a man didnt have a wife at home he wouldnt have built a career', is being challenged

How come he wouldnt have a career? What would stop him having the career he has? Presumably (assuming people are talking about a single dad), he would just do what single mums do and get a cleaner and child care to work around his career.

If people are talking about a single man then same applies but without the childcare. No one 'built a career' based on the fact they had a wife at home.

What if she says, yes I would like to go back to work but I don't want to just do some small, boring job that fits in with school hours. This is what I'd like to do and it involves travel away from home or unsocial hours, so you'll have to take over as being the main parent/homemaker for at least some of the time.

Would that be a discussion that you'd be willing to have?

You cannot MAKE anyone do anything. If I was you I would be screaming in frustration at her blindness to the future problem. You do not have enough for anything like a comfortable retirement or to fund your kids though Uni etc. And even if it was 'enough' why should you have to be miserably poor when she refuses to work. Personally I would make plans to separate split everything 50/50 and then you can make your own financial security. But then I'm a hard bitch and I cannot stand freeloaders

I have come back to this thread after a few hours. My 17 year old drives, has a job that brings in about £700 a month, does his own washing and makes his own breakfast and lunch. I still parent him but it's totally different to a toddler He isn't in much to know whether I work or not.

I think he would be bemused that I needed to not work to look after him. He has several friends in workbased apprentiships from 16 themselves.

The second child is younger and I understand will still need more direct support, but I get the impression OP meant when they start secondary his wife could do a small amount of work.

I really think people with younger children can't imagine what it's like. And people don't realise how even a small job (like the types of jobs teens themselves do) can make a big difference to famiky finances.

Why are you inventing weird unlikely scenarios just to challenge the op?

she has a teaching qualification and is reluctant to work at all. She’s been out of work 11 years. She isn’t going to start some high powered job that involves international travel. She’s mostly likely going to get a job that she’s qualified in or if she doesn’t fancy that an entry level role given her career gap.

What sort of work is she realistically going to get if you want her working outside the home just 1 or 2 days a week?. It will pay minimum wage.

Not to mention the impact on your family as a whole, she will also need to travel
to work and that’s not going to be cheap either. It needs far more thought from you.

OP is not the sole provider. And his wife hasn't been "enjoying a life of leisure". She's been doing a job (parenting) that, when there isn't a SAHP, other people are paid to do - childcare etc.

Family unit with different but equally valuable jobs.

Now the DC are getting older, perhaps things might change - but then there's the issue OP's wife faces of employer age (and gap in paid employment history) discrimination.

Also perhaps she's lost some confidence - to change jobs in her mid 40s, especially if she's perimenopausal (which can affect confidence and energy levels).

Despite the potential barriers to changing jobs, it sounds like OP's wife is taking steps to look into it. She's doing voluntary work, which is something people often do when attempting to change jobs or return to paid work after a long period. It's the first stage.

If I was the main earner and my partner started doing 3 or 4 hours a week tutoring from home, I really wouldn’t expect things to change much in terms of the division of chores and I think that’s fair. It’s hardly a full time job. And OP is allegedly an engaged father anyway so it’s not as if he’s totally hands off.

Tutoring does require some prep but even if you allocate that one whole day and add on the four hours she’s actually doing the tutoring she’s effectively working 1.5 days a week.

If she wants him to pick up a couple of nights doing the cooking to or do the laundry on a Saturday morning, I’m sure that’s doable for the OP, but she needs to bring that to the table of discussion.

The problem here is she is shutting down the conversation and simply doesn’t want to or is scared of working. She isn’t looking for ways to make this work.

OP is going to have to be more firm here or just accept things as they are.

I wouldn't tolerate it personally, my ex husband didn't work and I didn't feel he was invested in our relationship.
However you don't want to hear that so I suggest you lay it all out on paper for her.
Do all the sums showing what is going in and out, how much you need to earn to save up for a decent pension and savings and the consequences of not doing so.
Work out the minimum you need her to earn.
Of she ignores the evidence on paper then I don't know.
I earn pretty much the same as you and live on my own, DS is grown up and I'm doing extra work to boost my pension savings. Your earnings will not go far for a four person household. She could make it all so much easier.

The number of people claiming life admin always amazes me. And I don’t cope well. But it’s much better for me financially to pay a slight premium to get an online food shop delivered and have a weekly cleaner and manage to work almost ft than to over complicate things. And I’ll tidy the garden up when I retire.

at secondary age I need to be present and engaged from a while after 4-5pm and do some taking to clubs in the evening. But the first hour home is decompression and snack time anyway.

But then I’m a single mum and get no maintenance, so I have no choice.

I haven’t read many other answers beyond your OP. We made a huge lifestyle change in our mid 40’s, all I can say is that somehow, you need to persuade your OH to sit down, and both of you go through all your annual income, and then chart all your annual outgoings at the moment. Don’t make it about getting a job at this stage, do it solely as an exercise in working out your finances. Annually will work better than monthly, as you will have annual DIrect Debits as well as monthly. Doing this will give both of of you an indication of where you are currently. It’s a good idea to list under Essentials (Energy, household bills, Food basics, Cars, etc….) and Desirables (Hobbies, mobiles, holidays, subscriptions, etc…) You will need to consider child raising costs as well, something we didn’t have. Just do it at this stage for where you are now. Because of your children, you then need to forecast for the future depending upon their requirements.

This will do two things. It will possibly indicate that you do need two incomes coming in, or it might reassure you that given what you do have, and future prospects, you are in fact comfortable. However, your partners state pension is a worry. There’s a deadline of next April to “buy back” unearned credits that will take that very low pension forecast up to a liveable amount. After April, that can’t happen, it’s either buy back, or get out and earn.

At this stage, if your OH won’t co operate and take part in this exercise, then I would suggest you do it alone, and have a stab at putting something together. A calm measured approach is best for both of you at this point.

Beyond this will depend on how your OH receives this information, ie, what prospects she considers for the future of your children? Does she fully understand about her pension? How willing would she be to sacrifice aspects if your current income isn’t good enough? Does she totally want to rely utterly on you to provide everything for all of you the rest of your lives?

After that, if there’s no cooperation in being a team, then it’s time to find out what her underlying issues might be, if (big if) you need more income, and it’s not going to happen. Good luck with it all. I’ll finish by saying it was one of the most useful things we ever did, and it all worked out very happily for us.

Because he wants her to work a minimal amount so they can have more money without him making any changes to his routine.

What if that's not what she wants? If she manages to overcome the initial inertia/reluctance over not working for so long and re-enter the workforce, she may find like many women do that she goes from strength-to-strength and eventually wants a lot more than this. I'd hope the OP would support her in this.

I went back to work part time because of money also I was so bored at home.

No disrespect but your wife doesn't seem awfully bright if she doesn't understand basic economics.

University which is means tested is very expensive. You'll need to have an honest conversation with your wife and daughter explaining that it's not sustainable. Daughter will need to work if her mother doesn't.

All mine worked weekends and school holidays, saved up for university. They worked every holiday whilst at university.

For fucks sake, again with this site and the sexism.

If it was a woman asking her husband to work and he flat out refused, pearls would be clutched and screams of leave the lazy bastard would echo out.

Agree that you need to have a plan that involves you actively sorting out some childcare issues, not just 'it'll work out, they're old enough' or whatever. It's obviously a concern of hers and it'll be something not happening if she's working again. I was in a very similar position with my own DS (DH genuinely would have been happy with him walking home alone from age 6 because that's what they do in his country. Okay fine, but that's not an acceptable situation from my perspective, so now what is another solution? etc)

Having said that: of course she should go back to work. She should do it for herself first and foremost, but also to contribute to the household finances. If she doesn't want to go back to teaching specifically, there are plenty of jobs which will use those transferable skills.

Also just the general mental health benefit.

Sorry that you've taken the "LTB" response off the table though, because in the end, you can't force her to go to work. It comes down to how important this is to you, I suppose.

his wife hasn't been "enjoying a life of leisure". She's been doing a job (parenting) that, when there isn't a SAHP, other people are paid to do - childcare etc.

Come on. Her youngest child is in Y6. She's had a considerable amount of leisure time for some years during the school day. More than enough to do all cleaning and more cooking and "life admin" than could possibly be needed with plenty of time over.

Lots of people with school aged children both work without using any childcare. Not necessarily FT, not long hours and lots of travel, but they absolutely work.

The alternative is her being at home alone, while she has 2 kids at secondary school, one soon to be self sufficient and the other who will be capable of getting to and from school alone and doing basic care for themselves, and still expecting her husband to be the sole financial provider. It's fair enough with little kids, not with secondary kids that don't have additional needs.

Depending on what subject and age she has experience in, tutoring isn’t always that easy to come by. And the thought of going back to teaching after a long break is scary (always bad enough after the summer holidays!). Have you suggested she gets a job in another field, I worked in a cafe for an bit and really enjoyed that. Or how about suggesting she retrains in something else? TL;DR is it the thought of teaching that’s putting her off, rather than working per se?

When when asked who would do school runs, he also didnt know.

what you should do, op, is put together a practical plan for what your days will look like. How will you alter your work to accommodate extra parenting and housework which will result from your wife working out of the home?

As for being out of work for years, my Dsis was out of work for 17 years and now has a top job with an international organisation. My aunt brought up four children and did 2 x OU degrees when they were at school and again got a top job when they were all teenagers and trained to be a vicar. Ivecalways worked but did a podiatry degree at 45 and now have a really good career. There really is no excuse.

shes not going to walk into £kerching paid job with no recent experience and a lazy attitude . Like the rest of us she pays travel cost
Like everyone else she has to start somewhere, see how she can increase her earning capacity
Travel and minimum wage isn’t in itself a reason not to work. You know what millions of folk work for minimum wage, they crack on. They don’t sit about consuming and thinking up excuses not to work