Other half refuses to work...

[pocketpairs]

I would appreciate some genuine advice, so if just going to write "finish relationship", please don't comment.

Both mid 40s, married 18 yrs, 2 DCs. When we got together, DW was very career driven. I grew up in poor family, before we got married , I said in no uncertain terms that "I won't marry someone who won't work (in some form)"

After DC1, she dropped to part time. After DC2 to 1 day w/p, then we mutually agreed she'd stop work until DC was started primary school full time.

Last few years, I've broached the subject about her restarting work, but she's proposed counter-arguments (i.e. who's going to pick DC from school, etc).

Now DC2 is starting secondary school next year, tried to have a serious conversation, and she's said in no uncertain terms she "won't work". She feels we have enough enough to live a comfortable life.

I'm at my wits end, as we don't have enough, and certainly don't have enough for future. Mortgage paid off, I earn £56k (approx), some savings, & £80k pension pot (not much I know!). She has 3 years in DB pension.

So what next?!

Secondary school age can be extremely demanding. Huge emotional turmoil and the transition to secondary, then, later, exams. Puberty. The endless homework. Relationships. Constant logistics, earlier starts, more to organise.

I was expecting it to get easier, but it's actually got much harder at 11-12 than it was at ages 8-10.

You’ve described her practical reasons for not wanting to go back to work, but have you had a supportive discussion about her emotional reasons? Sometimes the two come from very different places and we may not even see them ourselves until we stop to look. Eg you spoke about practical reasons you only wanted to be with someone who worked but your words hinted at strong emotions too.
As humans we avoid things which make us feel anxious. Can you find some quiet undisturbed time to help her feel safe enough to explore why she feels so strongly about this. You will also need to take a step back to look at why you feel so strongly too. The feelings not the practicalities.

Absolutely then she will have to get a job

This, absolutely.

never mind the current situation, as the OP points out they are looking at being poor on retirement, she wont even have a full state pension.

She'll have a share of the house, the pension and other assets, child maintenance and access to benefits.

Much of this doesn’t occur during a typical working day though, that’s the key fact. She’s not helping with homework, supporting them through puberty or dealing with logistics for most of the day.
At secondary school they should even be getting the bus themselves

Dear, we are currently breaking even, unless you pull your finger out you wont even get the full state pension when you retire never mind anything else.

If thats the future you want I dont want a part of it

Me too. Work FT. Have 2 children and a home. Does my home not “run”?

These threads are always a bonkers race to see who can have the shittest life possible. Yeah well, I work 60 hours a week, and do all the housework and cooking, and have 6 kids all with disabilities, it's possible.

She sounds lazy to me. Admin isn't a part time job. Children don't need picking up and dropping off. You have a choice. You said we couldn't mention it but you know what it is.

She wouldn't be entitled to benefits unless she worked, with children of that age. Half a house means a mortgage for the other half which she wouldn't be able to get without a job. If she decides to take her half of the money from the sale of the house and rent she wouldn't be entitled to benefits as she would have more then 16k in her account so again would need a job

It’s not remotely like that. Simply put two children in secondary school and a stay at home mum with limited childcare responsibilities is really not enough justification to opt out of work permanently, particularly with a husband who doesn’t want to be the only one providing an income and retirement fund for them both for the next 40 odd years.

I have no idea why some other posters are so supportive of a lazy partner. If the shoe were on the other foot and it was a woman describing a man, she'd be advised to get rid as he's a cocklodger!

OP, a frank sit down is required.

Find out exactly what her qualms and discuss each one in detail. It's massively unfair that you are carrying the financial load. Your children are old enough to take themselves to and from school from the sounds of it. You can set a cleaning rota and give children jobs too.

And you will need to pick up more of the household chores if/ when she begins to work.

If this is causing you stress (which is sounds like it is), she needs to understand the gravitas of the situation. You'll end up ill and resentful if you allow it to continue. It's a partnership you are in.

Also think about school holidays. 3 months a year when it will be challenging for her to work. She's not going to find term time only work so the summer holidays will be a nightmare of logistics and boredom. For another 2 years until ds2 is older

My partner and I have accepted that we would rather have less savings and just naff caravan holidays in the uk rather than either of us working more and therefore being less able to manage the household or the kids.

Also what you haven't mentioned is that although she was very career driven she sacrificed this to go part time and eventually pause working to deal with the domestic drudgery so that you could focus on your career. As you mentioned she was career driven this will have been a huge part of her identity, self esteem and she's given that up for you. What you reap is what you sew. She's put aside resentment and found a new identity and now you want her to make that sacrifice all over again.

I don't know why you're obsessed with her getting a job. If the OP finds it completely unacceptable that she doesn't work - which is fine - then he can divorce. He'll lose a lot of money and full access to his children, but it's obviously the principle that counts.

Suggesting financial abuse as a solution is unacceptable and he obviously can't force her to do something she doesn't want to do.

I'm not very money motivated so no I have no plans to work unless it's something meaningful. I am well protected financially though and know that lots of people don't share my circumstances.

This is the crux of it, you’ve hit the nail on the head OP. While she will have had national insurance credits since having kids and up to the age of 12 for your youngest, she will no longer receive them after this point, and if she’s not working then there’s a strong chance she won’t even be eligible for full state pension, never mind saving towards a private one. Respectfully, as you’ve noted too, your pension also isn’t huge, so you’re staring down the barrel of a big drop in living standards, downsizing aside. She needs to check her national insurance record, which might put the wind up her a bit.

Kindly show her a few well prepared budget forecasts for different scenarios up to retirement age and how each scenario will impact your retirement…the benefits and the hardships.

Show her how you will contribute to home tasks, DC tasks and domestic admin to enable her time to work within each of those scenarios.

In her situation, I would feel very vulnerable for the future. Sometimes, people don’t think of retirement until it is more imminent. And then they wish they had acted differently.

You can’t exactly force her to work.
If she refuses, you will have to go to Plan B.

I'd gather together all your financial information - so savings, debts, pension pot amounts etc. plus all your outgoings (council tax, food, house repairs, cars & replacements & running costs, holidays, kids activities, kids uni costs, I would make an appointment with a pensions advisor for you both, and get THEM to walk through how to achieve a pension pot of sufficient to meet your needs in retirement at 60/65/national retirement age.

While you may have enough 'now', would it be enough to sustain you both till retirement age - what if inflation stays at 3%? Would your earnings keep pace? What if you're made redundant/are too ill to work? Then what will happen when you DO retire - she has to accept it won't be comfortable with no pension of her own. State pension and 3 years plus your £80 isn't a lot! What does she/you want to do when retired? Travel? Drive a car? Hobbies? All costs money.

It should be quite an eye opener, but better presented from an impartial person's POV IMO, especially one with tools to project 'if you can contribute x to pension pot each a month then y outcome at 55/60/65/68/70' etc.
Even if she got a part time in 'something with a good pension' eg NHS, or a supermarket that'll get you 20-25% off the food, would help in the long run.

I hope you are doing your fair share of 'life admin' and chores - we have ended up with a bit of a split I tend to do inside house (cleaning, shopping, cooking, financial records), he does outside (gardening, house maintenance, car washing and repairs, shopping for non food, forward financial planning/long term spending), but we both help each other as does any child 'at home'. I also think secondary kids SHOULD take themselves to and from school and be responsible for themselves for a couple of hours till you get home, but if not can you WFH 2-3 days a week or leave early to WFH?

Edited to add as a minimum I am guessing she has perhaps 20 years NI contributions with the childcare years, but will likely need 35-37, so is going to be far short of full state pension. This would be a great worry to me if I were her.

@Differentstarts she'd be expected to look for work and/or do stuff to improve her chances of finding work but she'd not be locked out of the system for lack of a job.

That's not the point. Able adults should be working to support themselves and their offspring unless both partners agree otherwise.

"pottering around volunteering" - Ouch! Please don't be dismissive about volunteering - I appreciate it doesn't provide income for your household which is your primary concern, but the voluntary work she does will be invaluable to the organisation she volunteers for and the service users of that organisation.
I think you need to address her "we have enough (now)" position. From what you've said about your respective pension pots, you're going to have a very poor retirement. Gather some data and show her how difficult your retirement is going to be if you don't start accelerating your pension contributions NOW - it's never too late, but in your 40's it's going to be harder to build up those pots than if you'd been doing it reliably from your early 20's. And occupational and/or private pension provision is more important than ever as no-one knows what state pension provision will look like in 25 - 30 years' time.
Do you have an independent financial adviser? If not, get one, they're worth their weight in gold. They can also give you a glimpse of your financial future if you continue as you are and how your position can be improved - your DW might take this on board more readily from a paid professional than you.
Your DW returning to teaching would obviously be preferable as she'll be able to recommence contributions to her Defined Benefits pot (a luxury these days when the majority of these schemes have been changed to Defined Contributions) but even if she doesn't want to return to teaching, she's clearly an intelligent woman so should be able to find something within her skill set.
I've actually seen exactly this scenario with a friend and the real problem was that she'd totally lost all confidence in her abilities, but it took an age for her to admit this to her husband. Ironically, once she pushed herself to do something (three mornings per week - husband did morning school run and she was free for the afternoons) her confidence was restored pretty swiftly. I feel this may be your DW's real problem, which you will need to gently tease out of her. But I do think your focus in discussions with your DW should be on your future financial security and what sort of old age you might expect.
Good luck OP!

"Children don't need picking up and dropping off."

Depends on the child, the school, the situation...

This couple may have made decisions in the past that have led to constraints now.

I grew up in semi-rural Kent and you were knackered there (and still are) if the bus decided to not run or the service was cancelled.

Here in Greater London, few DC need dropping (although many schools forbid primary kids from travelling solo until year 5 or 6 - ours was at the more extreme end - Easter of y6). It can be good to know what pre teen DC are up to, also!

Wh is this his responsibility?

She's an adult who has led a very privileged life for 15 years, with (as a SAHP to school age children) plenty of time to strategize and plan for her return to work.