Other half refuses to work...

[pocketpairs]

I would appreciate some genuine advice, so if just going to write "finish relationship", please don't comment.

Both mid 40s, married 18 yrs, 2 DCs. When we got together, DW was very career driven. I grew up in poor family, before we got married , I said in no uncertain terms that "I won't marry someone who won't work (in some form)"

After DC1, she dropped to part time. After DC2 to 1 day w/p, then we mutually agreed she'd stop work until DC was started primary school full time.

Last few years, I've broached the subject about her restarting work, but she's proposed counter-arguments (i.e. who's going to pick DC from school, etc).

Now DC2 is starting secondary school next year, tried to have a serious conversation, and she's said in no uncertain terms she "won't work". She feels we have enough enough to live a comfortable life.

I'm at my wits end, as we don't have enough, and certainly don't have enough for future. Mortgage paid off, I earn £56k (approx), some savings, & £80k pension pot (not much I know!). She has 3 years in DB pension.

So what next?!

"Why can't the wife work 2 days a week, do 16 hrs?"

What sort of work would this be even if this could be found?. And she is already working by running a home and in doing so enabling career progression.

Good advice from @FooFightersFan on invigilating.

This is exactly why me and my partner both went part time when we had our son. We know we have the school holidays, sick days, pick ups covered for life, and we both spend equal time parenting. We made a rota for chores based on what jobs need doing every day and what chores we each prefer. We only do chores on our non working days. We have a weekly meeting to divvy up life admin like arranging car mot, holiday planning, gp appointments, planning birthday parties etc. Because I just knew that i haven't worked this hard to become too default parent or bear the brunt of the mental load. I also think 11-12 year olds still need supervision after school. When my brother and i were teens my mum made sure that we rarely had to be at home alone together because we would relentlessly wind each other up, and it builds resentment for the older child, so I went to a neighbours house for an hour after school a few days a week even until year 9 to reduce how much time my brother was baby sitting me.
Teaching can be really stressful and working part time is much harder than working full time in some jobs because the cover never splits it that well. For example a secondary teacher in a job share doing 2 days a week would have to get to know just as many kids and do just as many parents evenings/reports as if they were 5 days, and have the same admin/communication/meeting commitments. As for tutoring surely this wouldn't work in school hours so are you going to finish early to take kids to scouts, cook dinners, teach your kids to cook dinners, nag kids to do homework, drive them to asda to get their ingredients for home economics, stay abrest of when exams are to nag kids to get early nights the night before etc etc?

Also if she is perimenopausal her energy levels are going to be affected. I certainly would struggle to work after 5pm and I'm much younger. Are you going to let her have a lie in the morning the morning of and/or after tutoring when you'd get the kids up and harass them to check their timetables to see what they need to bring and get ready and out the door in time for the bus without waking her or is she going to be expected to get up and do it?

I am in a different profession (nhs) but wouldn't want to do private work because I worry paying customers expect a higher level of knowledge and service that I don't feel 100% confident that I could meet those expectations. She might be feeling the same about tutoring, especially as she hasn't worked in years, and in that time hasn't the whole gcse curriculum and grading system changed?? Also how is she going to find new clients, will she need to do advertising and set up accounts, insurance and other things she is unlikely to have experience in?

Indeed, most families have two working parents but strangely it's so often the mum doing all that additional stuff... while the DH is blithely unaware.

YANBU to expect her to work.However she is used to being at home ,and by volunteering is still contributing to society.Of course the extra money would be very welcome ,however the added stress needs to be considered .Unless its takeouts or freezer food every night ,Your wife is cooking ,cleaning and shopping .No doubt if a Teacher, she is helping with homework /pick ups /as well .Obv I realise plenty of people work FT .Is Teaching itself not attractive ? You seem to be fairly comfortable ATM.Do bear n mind that divorce will leave you worse off anyway . DH is retired (I have been ill) and we run a car,take UK hols,and meals out .Shop E/Bay /look for bargains and so on.Not all pensioners are wealthy and many of us accept a more modest retirement.

How is she with the money? Is she extravagant, buying expensive and unnecessary things for herself, or does she budget? If the former, those are easier grounds for an argument that she needs to fund her side of things (although I think you have the right to want her to work whichever one it is).

I have a bit of experience in this area having been a stay at home mum for around 8 years. Do you both have the same principles when it comes to managing money? If your wife has no clue about the family finances then this is not going to work. For example, I have always looked after our money and I knew that I would have to start working (part time) when my youngest went to primary. Perhaps your wife should do this from now on and have a full and frank conversation about Univ costs and retirement. This could change her mindset. However, don't be thinking that your wife can waltz into a great paying job that works around the kids. It doesn't work like that and you will probably have to up your game in the home as well.

It does read like you expect her to work but in a way that doesn't impact on you at all. It's very nice that you're happy with her having a little part time job so she can continue to pick up all the kid/house duties but does she actually want that? You said she was ambitious before kids. Maybe she'd be happy to pick up an actual career again but she feels like she simply can't unless you're willing to pick up some of the stuff she's currently doing.
A proper career might be more appealing than a part time job.
I say all this as someone who is picking up a career again in my 40s - and I feel able and happy to do that because my husband happily picked up 50% of the stuff I was doing. I absolutely feel a sense of responsibility towards contributing financially. But my husband absolutely feels a sense of responsibility towards contributing towards the house and kid stuff. Do you, really?

@Horsesontheloose advice is v sensible.

^This.

Lots of men don't bother to calculate the emotional and mental and practical load of unpaid labour women do in the home ad for kids because they are used to freeloading off women. Men who think they do half, often have no idea of what actually is being done and the time and energy it takes. You could rebalance paid work, but you would likely also need to rebalance unpaid work too.

Of course it's acceptable.
She should have made a better choice in life.
These comments about 'cutting her off' are appalling.
But obviously, I'm old school.

Ah - i think i might modify my first comment then if online tutoring is an option for her.

I do think it is preferable to have a parent in the home.

My DH and I (we are a generation back from you and our first was born 1993) agreed that i could drop my hours to part time after DD was born.

He would definitely have agreed to have me at home full time but no way could we have afforded that in our 20s with mortgage rates up at 15%. I also earned more then.

After child 3 was born, paid childcare was prohibitive and i gave up my career as a speech & lang therapist and switched to childminding.

That worked so well for us. I did ALL the housework, all that our kids needed and contributed £1k per month to our income. DH went to work and put the bins out🤣

Then - 2014, our youngest child started primary. I decide to return to speech T.

Did this go well? NO!!! And who could not cope - DH! It was such an eye opener to him that i actually did a lot more besides childminding.

You should have seen him stress when i left before him one morning, he then got up and DD was too ill to go to school!!!

I went back to childminding. Home harmony resumed.

Now, our youngest is 17. I do less paid work than ever. I only contribute £650 per MONTH. But i still do all cooking, cleaning and am the support person for the 'kids'

DH still goes to work and puts bins out!

I am nearly 60 now. I will get a tiny, weeny pension at 60 but, if i stop work at 60 (which i hope to) i will really be supported by DH.

But i think now he appreciates all the stuff i do at home. We have 5 kids so, to my mind, i have worked and also supported him to be able to go to work without stressing. I have loved being at home; i appreciate that he has supported me in being the main breadwinner.

We have paid off our mortgage, DH income very similar to yours.

If we were in a financial pickle, i would do more work. Of course i would.

So - i think what i am saying is have a conversation with your OH about how she feels. And, especially how she feels about the financial position.

Is she hearing your concerns? Is her interpretation of your joint position valid (presume she is not concerned?)

Does she need more support from you to help set up a business (that is what online tutoring would be)

But, never, ever under estimate what she does already. Housework is bloody hard work! Being an unpaid driver, confidante, cook, cleaner etc etc is not NO work. It is undervalued.

And - chat to your kids too. Teen mental health is in crisis just now. If your kids are happy and healthy, that is is no small part down to your DW.

Spending too much on a lazy partner maybe.

I don't think you are being unreasonable at all. It's unfair for one person to have all the responsibility.

What if you get ill, have an accident? The children are not babies and actually might benefit themselves from not having her on call at all times.

I think if the financial angle hasn't worked then you need to tell her you are feeling the pressure. That you are worrying yourself about this and need support.

I suspect that really she's lost all confidence. She might not feel up to going back into teaching.

Given what you say about tax allowances, it doesn't need to be this. Could she look at teaching assistant roles. Or think about what her skills suit transferring to even if a different field. There's a real shortage of swimming teachers for example in lots of areas. The training is quite short. Okay the pay isn't brilliant but it's the type of thing that has some flexibility.

I think you have to be former that you are not coping alone and want some help.

I disagree I think its completely unacceptable to make someone financially provide for you

I think OP said one child 17 and one is in Year 6 so aged either 10 or 11. DC take up less time once they are secondary aged. What they need you for is cash, lifts (mostly evenings or weekends) a peek that they have done their homework and regular hugs!

Once they are secondary age they can even help make sure they’ve got clean uniform ready. Rota for dinner etc.

Respectfully I think a lot of the responses saying OPs wife has her hands full are referencing having younger children when it is a more full on time commitment, OP is talking about his wife returning part-time to work once the kids are in secondary. Entirely reasonable.

The solution to that is to divorce.

Oh for god sake “running the home” is not remotely like actually having a job.

Whats the point of 3-4 hours work a week, for such a small amount, in the scheme of things? Especially if it is causing upset and resentment? That wouldn’t be worth the hassle of trying to find and maintain a job like that. Why not FT or 3 or 4 days like most working mums?

I see where you are coming from OP I wouldn’t want my DH to be a SAHP to secondary age kids either if he was capable of work and we could build more future security as a result. I would hate the feeling of everything being on me. What if I burn out or get ill? Partnership needs to feel like one. And if I had become accustomed to having 100% of kids and house stuff being taken care of I would adjust to contributing more fairly as part of the return to work deal.

She needs to go back to work.

You need to be fair to her and support her in this.

What does she want to do? What might she want to do if she didn't have any childcare/housework responsibilities, but could just devote herself to her job?

She has supported you in your career since the children were born and in 8-10 years they'll hopefully be moving on and living independently.

Yes, she needs to get a job but it's unfair of you to pigeon-hole her into doing something very limited or with limited prospects of progression (online tuition etc) just so you can get a bit of extra money but she's still around to do all the household crap.

If I read your posts correctly, she hasn't worked full-time for 17 years and hasn't worked at all for 11 years. Her confidence may have taken a huge knock and it's going to be difficult after all that time for her simply to walk back into something. Her earning power may be limited, at least at first.

None of this is to say that she shouldn't go back to work. Depending on your ages, she presumably has another 20-25 years left of what people would usually consider the normal span of a working life. But why should she be pigeon-holed into poor quality part-time work while your life continues unchanged? You say that pre-kids she was very career-driven, maybe now they're both in the stage of being more independent she might become so again.

Discuss it with her. Say you want her to find something she enjoys doing and you'll support her even if it's inconvenient for the family. Offer to take over stuff at home and be around for the kids. Would she maybe like to go back to teaching or retrain in adult education or something like that?

Yes I also wonder what this “running the home” is. I have always worked and I guess I have also been “running the home”.

Invigilating is a good idea.

It’s insane. I enjoyed being a sahm but as soon as dd2 started school it was like a switch and I was suddenly desperate to work. Fortunately I was able to set up my own business and work flexibly now my little second job earns the same as dh. Going back after 6-7 years out is totally doable I did as did basically all my sahm friends. We are 50
now with teens facing university don’t know anyone that isn’t working.

Well if she did tutoring as her husband suggested at £45 per hr a couple of hrs a couple of times a week that’s not to be sniffed at!

Well there’s such things as after school clubs and childminders, i’m a single parent and have always worked, with no family to help. Once in secondary most DC come home themselves, mine were at that age. She’s got no excuses, and its not fair no. But if she wont you’re left with few answers unless you want to end things, and you don’t seem to want that