DC Weddings

[Evelinska]

I'd be grateful for any advice/ opinions. I've learned an enormous amount from MN over the years about DV and I only wish I'd come to it sooner.

Two of my DC have got engaged in the past few months and are planning their weddings. Their father/ my ex husband has had very little to do with them since I asked him to leave fifteen years ago. The DC lived with me and me alone after the divorce. Contact is minimal both between the DC and their father and between myself and my ex husband. My ex husband was very violent - high level violence - over a very long period and the DC (to my great shame) witnessed the injuries and heard the noise.

He has never been invited by them to any other major events in their lives (graduations etc) but there's an unspoken consensus that he ought to be invited to the weddings. I think perhaps this is partly to do with not rocking the boat with the partners, who I suspect don't know the details. We've all tried to move on. I completely get that position re. inviting him.

For some reason I'm feeling absurdly dragged back into the past by the idea of him being with me at a family event. I've tried to draw an iron curtain over the past and if my thoughts stray that way I push them away hard. I'm absolutely determined that the DC shouldn't have such a big life event spoiled but I'm seriously worried about him drinking too much and trying to put me down vocally in front of the other parents/ guests or approaching other DC who have told him they want nothing to do with him ever again. Basically causing a scene and spoiling the wedding/s. I'm able not to react but I can't do anything to limit his behaviour.

I also don't want to look as though I'm trying to stick my oar in with wedding arrangements but having some input into the seating plans might help. Then again both my DC who are marrying are the grooms, so I could easily look to their fiancees like an interfering over controlling mother in law to be - but as I say, I don't think either of them have a clue how bad things were, just that my sons think their father is a bit of a dick.

Any advice about how I can handle this for the best? I've had a few snarky WhatsApps from my ex husband recently. The absolutely key thing is that I don't want any of my DC upset, or their event or their sibling's event messed up. And actually I do think that at the core I'm making this all about me, which is something I don't like.

IfIHadAHeart I'm not sure that I know the answers to the difficult but entirely legitimate questions. There are lots of things I can't articulate. Things were an absolute mess. I had nowhere to go with the children. It sounds very weak. Stronger and better people would have made a move much earlier but I didn't know how long things would go on for, whether they'd improve. Looking back I was obviously profoundly depressed, which certainly exacerbated his violence towards me (incompetent) - although of course the whole situation was incredibly circular. At the height of the issues my mother was dying which was my main concern but which also seemed to make my ex husband very resentful and angry and especially violent. And between incidents things seemed to be relatively normal: the children went to school, they liked their schools and friends, they were doing well. I've already said that there are so very many regrets and that if only I could re-write the past I would have done things so differently. But all I can say is that getting from day to day seemed an immense struggle most of the time. But yes, mea culpa for sure.

And yes absolutely about the money. My ex husbands reluctance to volunteer any money made me angry - the whole happy family facade with no financial involvement made me see red. His meanness is legendary and has been even from prior to our own wedding (my father warned me about marrying him for precisely this reason). The concerns have been building since, I suppose because the snarky messages have pulled me right back into the past where I didn't expect to be.

As I said above, he has a very different persona with others. He was violent to me, once to a different daughter (but he couched that as an 'accident': he pushed her (her fault apparently) and she fell and split her nose/ had two black eyes). But I don't for a second think he'd do anything now - it was definitely me and living with me which made him violent.

I'm sorry but you're still very much frozen in that place most abused people experience where they think the violence was their fault and special/peculiar to them. You might really benefit from therapy.

I very much doubt he has never been violent or abusive to other partners - and he's very much still capable of abuse to women and family members.

Yes, lots of abusers are good at the facade, and being outwardly reasonable or charming.

But I wouldn't count on it holding up at a wedding where he's surrounded by women he abused and that he's still angry with.

Your daughter's opinions on all this should be much higher priority than they seem to be.

You didn't make him violent. He is an evil violent man. He pushed your daughter hard enough to make her fall and split her nose and get two black eyes. The fact that he doesn't do it to everyone shows that he chose to do it with you and your daughter, two females in his family who he should have been protecting not hurting. He is totally to blame. You and your daughter are not to blame.

Damaging your items with sentimental vavalue and putting nails in your tyres are the actions of a psychopath. You didn't report him to the police as he would have lost his job. This has obviously made him think that no matter what he does he is untouchable.

He should not be present at any of your wider family events.

I don't understand why your sons want him at their weddings. Do they not know what went on, at all? Do they not know he is likely to drink too much and behave badly?

Do they not think it might be uncomfortable for their sister?

Is it because they need the money and therefore are ignoring all of the issues? Or are they clueless about his true nature?

Whatever happens, this is their choice and if he behaves badly, causes a scene, ruins the celebrations, just remember that it is not your fault. You are not responsible for his actions.

But I do think you need to say something to your sons and their fiancé's. No need to be gorey. Just be straight. Your father was a violent abuser. I cannot be sat with him. And he is likely to drink too much, and this brings risks. You just want them to have all of the facts. Imagine preparing to marry man, who has said his dad is a bit of a dick. And then it all kicks off at the wedding and she knows that you knew this was a possibility and didn't say anything. I don't think I'd have a very high opinion of you or that.
And of course, you felt like you were doing the right thing, keeping quiet, but the opposite is true.

I'm not sure denial and minimisation is going to end well for you, so do consider talking to them.

So when you were profoundly depressed, (prob due to how he was treating you) and when your mother was dying, instead of being a good husband and supporting you and caring about your welfare, he instead became resentful, abusive and violent. And you seem to think that, that was somehow your fault. You’re not seeing this clearly because he gaslit you into thinking it was your fault when the reality is, HE CHOSE TO BE ABUSIVE TO YOU! There is no reason why anyone deserves to be abused, ever. None. You didn’t cause it, you didn’t deserve it and there’s no justification for it. You weren’t weak, you were stuck in a very difficult, frightening situation with a lack of options and when you had the ability to, you left him. You did the best you could with the resources you had at the time. Stop blaming yourself for his behaviour. Also, abusers are never constantly abusive. They will have periods of calm and being nice. It’s called the cycle of abuse. It’s done to keep the victim living in hope that things will change and everything will be alright. But it’s not real. The real person is the abusive one. I think you should read this book. It might help you see how none of this was your fault. It was written by a man who worked with abusive men for decades. The link is to read a free online version.

https://dn790007.ca.archive.org/0/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/LundyWhy-does-he-do-that.pdf

Very tricky situation. However as he's not really been in the children's lives, through his own actions, how does he earn the 'right' to be at his children's weddings.
He's not taking any responsibility for his behaviour and will potentially make the atmosphere uncomfortable on the day. His behaviour also continues to be unpredictable, particularly where drink is involved.
I personally think the boil needs lancing - he does not come to the wedding and if anyone asks, they are told why.
One of the worst things about abusers is the public/private face. Don't help him to hide his behaviour anymore, hold your head high and face him down.
I'm an abusive relationship survivor, though not on the same scale as you. I moved away from the area and could never go back for fear of bumping into him.

I understand why your two DS might still want him there. They probably still love him, he's their dad. And no doubt can be very loving when it suits him. Even if they remember everything they probably still love him. And I think you have all been conditioned to minimise the violence and manipulation, as if wasn't that bad or you somehow provoked him (which of course you know in your heart that that is not true).

I also understand why it might feel difficult, embarrassing or shameful to expose his true character to other people - if that's how you do indeed feel. For what it's worth, I've found that dampening down the language helps when speaking to others...I've said things like 'our dad loved us very much but he wasn't really cut out to be a family man. He had a temper. There were lots of fights and it wasn't good'. Or 'my ex and I had lots of fights. He hurt me quite badly'. It's easier for me to say. But people always understand what I am saying. Your average person can easily recognise that as DV without you having to spell it out or give horrible details.

I do think you need to speak to your sons and the DILs need to be made aware. So that they understand why he should not come. Or if he does come, then they can be prepared just in case. I'm sure they'll understand and support you all with whatever plan you make in the end.

category12 I'm not sure about frozen in the past, in that this is the first time in fifteen years I've ever had more than momentary flashbacks. I really do almost physically push the memories of specific incidents out of my mind. I almost never go back there either privately let alone with anyone else.

You also said this: Your daughter's opinions on all this should be much higher priority than they seem to be. Having reflected, I think you probably mean that my ex husband being invited is not giving due regard to my DD's opinions. Apologies if you mean something more than that. But if I'm correct, I think I would say that this DD knows that I absolutely understand exactly why she has the strength of feeling that she does. I think it's fair to say that the younger siblings may not fully understand how much more the older ones have been affected, and that's something I need to address urgently for sure. That's certainly been the collateral damage of trying not to drag everyone down (again) with re-hashing the past. I don't know how to do that without getting into details. I'm trying to work through all this stuff and trying to fathom what to do for the best.

This particular DD, the one who really cannot bear her father, is one who he went for the most, for whatever reason. She was the one who found his hidden stash of tapes (in her room) and played them back: it transpired that he switched on a tape recorder after multiple orchestrated incidents (violent and other, such as damage to property) and then recorded my upset, by way of proving that I was mad and couldn't cope. That was clearly damaging to her. We later discovered that he'd filed these tapes on my computer under the file name 'Music of the Eighties'. I'm finding it pretty hard to type this out, it just sounds so batshit.

AlwaysFreezing my sons assumed that no money would be forthcoming, given that it never has been in the past. The pressing for money was entirely my doing, since there was a deafening silence on that front, and I just got pissed off. I thought it was pretty shoddy that he would leave the sons to look like meanies themselves. The money thing is at my door alone.

I agree entirely with what so many posters have said, yourself included, and I've spoken to my younger son now - he's the furthest forward with his plans.

TipsyJoker thank you for the post and the link. I will read it now, finally. I've seen it suggested often on DV threads and never done so. It seemd to me that to read it would be to wallow.

Stop blaming yourself for his behaviour. This sentence and the one written by category12 (they think the violence was their fault and special/peculiar to them) describe what I think for sure, but only to an extent. I recognise that I'm less culpable than him but because my reaction to each incident was anger and contempt (as opposed to fear and timidity) I can't see that I didn't make things worse. Each time he kicked off - and increasingly he seemed to enjoy it - I was furious that another day was wrecked for the children, that more damage was done. That doesn't seem a 'normal' reaction to what was going on. Often people talk about 'treading on eggshells' on these threads and I don't think I did tread on eggshells. I don't feel I fit the mould; I think I exacerbated a problem.

Thanks again Funmumandson. I don't think any of his children do actually love him. That sounds a shitty thing to say but I'm really trying hard to think what the reality of the situation is. I also don't know what a child who doesn't like/love a parent feels about all sorts of things - I liked/loved my own parents. It's not great for sure but how it impacts on their own self esteem - goodness knows. I think maybe some feel a slight pity for him. On rare occasions I've pitied him too - but he seems to be cushioned on his fantasy that he's a fine family man. He really does seem buoyant. I've no idea why or how - it's just not something I'm capable of comprehending. He definitely despises depression or anything of that sort. He 'doesn't do depression', apparently.

I used to feel anger and contempt too with my ex (I was more fearful of my dad, but loved and pitied him at the same time). In fact, during an argument, I would rage and yell at the injustice of it all. Which probably didn't help...

My mum ended up with broken ribs with my dad. She was ANGRY too. I think it is a normal reaction.

Us being angry at them for the horrible things they did to us, did not cause them to behave like that in the first place.

At the end of day...even though you were angry, did you ever give him a black eye? Break his bones? Push him down the stairs? Push your daughter and give her 2 black eyes? I very much doubt it.

If you were to have an argument today with a nice, reasonable, non violent man, he would not start hitting you and you would not descend into mental chaos.

He can't possibly look inside himself because keeping up his good persona is for himself as much as it is for anyone else.

I'm so glad you've managed to chat to your DS. I think it's really healthy for your DC to know that the door is open to talk about things if they want to. I think you've taken a massive step forward because at the beginning of this thread you really didn't want to bring it up at all. That is massive progress. And you know your boys best and knowing how best to deal with this will come naturally I'm sure, especially now you've opened the door.

Oh gosh Funmumandson I'm so sorry that was your childhood too.

That's weirdly reassuring, about being angry.

Our posts crossed.

Thanks yes poor youngest DS - he's a genuinely lovely person. All of the DC are tbh.

That's really nice, he sounds lovely. In terms of DS self esteem, I tell mine that he got all the nice bits from both me and his dad, and none of the not-so-nice bits. I tell him that we have both always loved him but that dad just wasn't ready to be a good dad. I tell him that he'd be a great dad though, because he's so sweet with younger ones (which is true).

He's actually a teen now and a bit annoying :) but that's how I've tried to keep his self esteem up. I was brought up being told that I had a temper like my dad as I was feisty (prob like your DD). It made me feel really ashamed. It wasn't true either, I'm actually very calm and patient naturally, but needed to work through my unresolved anger. Maybe it would be helpful for your DD to do that in some way too?

Sorry didn't mean to imply that your DD has been told that she's like her father! Just meant that maybe she's feisty and reactive because of unresolved anger from her childhood at what she went through

Funmumandson she's strikingly like me and nothing like the father - none of them are.

Thanks for all your advice btw - very helpful.