DC Weddings

[Evelinska]

I'd be grateful for any advice/ opinions. I've learned an enormous amount from MN over the years about DV and I only wish I'd come to it sooner.

Two of my DC have got engaged in the past few months and are planning their weddings. Their father/ my ex husband has had very little to do with them since I asked him to leave fifteen years ago. The DC lived with me and me alone after the divorce. Contact is minimal both between the DC and their father and between myself and my ex husband. My ex husband was very violent - high level violence - over a very long period and the DC (to my great shame) witnessed the injuries and heard the noise.

He has never been invited by them to any other major events in their lives (graduations etc) but there's an unspoken consensus that he ought to be invited to the weddings. I think perhaps this is partly to do with not rocking the boat with the partners, who I suspect don't know the details. We've all tried to move on. I completely get that position re. inviting him.

For some reason I'm feeling absurdly dragged back into the past by the idea of him being with me at a family event. I've tried to draw an iron curtain over the past and if my thoughts stray that way I push them away hard. I'm absolutely determined that the DC shouldn't have such a big life event spoiled but I'm seriously worried about him drinking too much and trying to put me down vocally in front of the other parents/ guests or approaching other DC who have told him they want nothing to do with him ever again. Basically causing a scene and spoiling the wedding/s. I'm able not to react but I can't do anything to limit his behaviour.

I also don't want to look as though I'm trying to stick my oar in with wedding arrangements but having some input into the seating plans might help. Then again both my DC who are marrying are the grooms, so I could easily look to their fiancees like an interfering over controlling mother in law to be - but as I say, I don't think either of them have a clue how bad things were, just that my sons think their father is a bit of a dick.

Any advice about how I can handle this for the best? I've had a few snarky WhatsApps from my ex husband recently. The absolutely key thing is that I don't want any of my DC upset, or their event or their sibling's event messed up. And actually I do think that at the core I'm making this all about me, which is something I don't like.

First of all, well done for kicking him out and raising your lovely children alone - that took real courage and strength. I think the problem is that his violence has been swept under the carpet. Understandable that you haven't wanted to dwell on it but it means your sons have no idea how being near your ex will affect you. Talk to your sons, tell them your worries. You're not ruining their big day, you're allowed to have boundaries which include not being near him for photos, not sitting near him for the meal and not standing with him in the reception line etc. They need to know how you feel. The shame is all on their father and not on you - you are not to blame for him choosing to be violent. And block his number on your phone - there is absolutely no need for him to ever contact you again.

Thinking longer term, OP, there is a great book called 'Un-Shame" by Carolyn Spring that you might find useful. She also has a series of free podcasts

Good luck, and let us know what decision you make and how you get on

I would not put someone I loved into an environment with their abuser. No amount of bridezilla would sway me.

It doesn’t sound like the three of you have dealt with this and perhaps some therapy for the three of you might be beneficial - I mean that kindly

I do believe openness is important on this issue, Eve, no matter how difficult it is. It can be cathartic. At the moment you have papered over the cracks but you need to heal thoroughly.

Realistically, will your ex-husband want to attend his sons' weddings anyway? It's more than likely he will decline the invitations.

If he does come he is hardly likely to kick off at the reception, people like him want to keep their pasts secret. No doubt he has a different persona now.

I wish you well whatever decision you make and I do sympathise with your situation. You have nothing about which to feel guilty, you were dominated and abused. You've done well to come so far.

The shame is not yours and you need to speak up. Imagine from your DIL’s position, it’s your wedding day and you find out that you had invited the seriously violent man who had harmed your MIL, a man who could/just did ruin your wedding, who terrified your DH and his siblings, who could/did harm any number of the guests emotionally or physically at the wedding, DH knew this could happen, knew the risk the man posed and said nothing, I wouldn’t continue with that marriage.
Even if he didn’t do anything at the wedding, DIL is unaware of the risk so potentially puts herself and future children at risk and I can’t even explain the rage I would feel if those who are supposed to love me put me or my children in danger.

If I knew the situation before the wedding I would look at you and think you were a brave, strong woman and I’d be telling my husband to be that he had better not involve his cunt of a father in our lives, ever.

The best thing you and your family can do is close ranks on him and leave him uninvited. It will be the strongest most united message of where the shame is placed. Nobody should violently abuse anyone and be invited to a party!

You sound amazing and have held your family together - now is the time to stand together and be proud - definitely not embarrassed or ashamed - good luck OP

Don’t invite him, you all need to be more open about it and he should not be invited at all and also change your phone number.

He should be in prison and not be available to attend.

As the oldest too she probably has a fresher clearer memory of that time, possibly tried to protect her brothers from it more. Her prickly exterior and defensive attitude probably comes from all this. I can guess she will refuse photos with him, as she should, but your dils are entitled to know the whole picture of what's going on as it will cause big rows if your daughter ends up portrayed as the problem. Also if I was the Dil and didn't know any of this I'd be heartbroken and furious that he was invited. There's such potential for disaster.

The only one who should be ashamed is your violent ex-husband. I don't think he should be invited.

Hope you slept well OP - you have got a lot to think about

Seems Mumsnet is pretty unanimous (a rare and wonderful thing!) that he should not be invited and you should definitely talk you your sons and future DILs asap

You can do this, it's hard but best for everyone in the long run

If your ex-husband is there, the wedding will be a disaster waiting to happen. He is filled with resentment that he is pretty much excluded from his children's lives and is particularly resentful about one of your daughters. He has accepted no responsibility for his lack of a relationship with his children. He also gets worse if he drinks. He will see this as an opportunity to settle a few scores.

It sounds as though you minimised the extent of his violence, including hiding your injuries. Did you ever report him to the police? Although you think that eyebrows might be raised if the grooms' father is not present at either of the weddings, just imagine the fall out if he becomes drunk and violent at the wedding.

You have taken on all the shame about his violence and treatment of his family. The shame should be placed directly on him and he should suffer the consequences which include being excluded from major family events.

I've read all the new messages, and thank you for them too.

The unanimity is striking jackstini, you're absolutely right.

thepariscrimefiles his career was one where a conviction would have cost him his job, and that's still the case. The police have spoken to him about things which happened after I asked him to leave (I was very fortunate indeed to have inherited my mother's cottage after her death, so I had a home for myself and the children. It was a lifeline in every sense). Things such as hacking into my computer on repeated occasions (no idea how), sending threatening 'anonymous' cards (in his own handwriting.... not bright). But I never went to the police with any of the gbh, no. To be honest I just felt I needed to get back to a semblance of normality after each major incident. Had it not been for the children I would certainly have gone. If I could re-write history I I would. That's what I've said to the children. So many regrets and I'm genuinely terrified of stirring all the bad stuff up again when people are getting on with their lives pretty well. I've been wondering overnight if that would be hugely self indulgent and even potentially damaging for the children, even though they're adults.

That said, I do hugely appreciate the time people have taken to respond, and know that I need to take constructive action. The weddings are a way off, so I do have the advantage of time.

Thank you all.

He is filled with resentment that he is pretty much excluded from his children's lives and is particularly resentful about one of your daughters. He has accepted no responsibility for his lack of a relationship with his children. He also gets worse if he drinks

This is spot on thepariscrimefiles - a direct hit.

I am just struck that you held it together and protected your children from the fallout with such strength after such violence. But they aren't children any more.

I hope you will use the time to have some therapy. You deserve a neutral but supportive viewpoint.

This sounds like a huge secret. In one way your sons may be ashamed of his behaviour but it’s not their fault or yours. In another their fiancées have a right to know the truth as they are part of your family. If I was getting married there is no way I would want a man who had behaved that way at my wedding. I think your sons really need to consider you and what you went through. I am surprised you are in any kind of contact with your ex.

Caramellie3 we have a complicated financial settlement which means we each give one another half our income for life. It's a bit ott tbh. I've sent an occasional admin message but I rarely communicate - I've never been uncivil but I'm definitely cool.

You've had some pretty great advice here, but I just want to add I was the DIL in this situation, although it was my H's Grandad (his Mum's Dad).
I was aware he didn't see him, but not all of the reasons why. When it came to the guest list it was really simple for me - I asked my H if it would upset his Mum or himself for his Grandad to be there. He said yes, so he wasn't invited. It did cause a bit of upset among the family, and one Auntie ended up not coming to the wedding but all I cared about was that my MIL was ok.

Please speak to your sons. This is not your shame and it's not theirs. Something you said earlier made me wonder - are you frightened if your future DILs find out that their father was an abuser, that it would make them see your sons differently? Because if that is the case I think that's proof that putting all this in a box and not dealing with it through open discussion and possibly therapy is not a healthy place to be xxxxx

Also, you sound pretty amazing for getting away from this man - I hope you are living life well xxx

OP are you or ex located outside of the UK? This seems like a bizarre settlement and another way for him to have control/contact over you.

We're UK Foxblue. Initially he got by far the better deal but now that all the DC have left home (the youngest was seven when he left) I'm arguably doing slightly better out of the arrangement. He doesn't think long term and is now not happy with the arrangement. But it's court ordered so I'm sticking to it having got through the very lean years. He's always been very dishonest with money - it caused huge problems. These are not huge sums incidentally; they allow me almost exactly to pay bills although nothing left over.

ThankThePhoenicians I'm wary about washing our linen yes but I don't see a violent bone in either of the sons' bodies, so I'm sure that the DIL won't either. Both are long relationships - long enough to spot a red flag. Even so - this is not uplifting stuff.

Look domestic abusers very rarely make their abuse known to others - certainly at an event like a wedding!!

They like to keep it all hidden

I think you are worrying about something you cannot control

Your children know the risks and he is still invited

His behaviour at the wedding is not on you at all! No one would think it was

I’m sure your dd can hold her mouth for these special days so have the wisdom to know you should focus on what you can change in life and not bother worrying about the things you can’t - as basically that’s a waste of emotional energy

I'm genuinely terrified of stirring all the bad stuff up again when people are getting on with their lives pretty well. I've been wondering overnight if that would be hugely self indulgent and even potentially damaging for the children, even though they're adults.

Do you think maybe that the silence over it all is a self-protective thing so you don't have to confront any long-term damage to your own mental health (or probably what you fear most, your dc's)? It's all papered over.

You haven't said if your dc have children of their own yet, I don't think - but sometimes all the stuff from childhood rears it's head for people when they have kids or when their kids reach particular ages.

I don't think not talking about it is healthy. I can understand why you don't, and sometimes things get worse before they get better during therapy, but it's not really over for you all.

It's not in the past while your ex is still sending you abusive messages.

It's not in the past when your dd is considered abnormal in some way for being "hostile" or not wanting anything to do with her father. She should really be supported totally in this decision.

I disagree that your dd should be expected to "hold her mouth" and accept this man being at the weddings. She should be supported and protected.

I presume your sons were too young to understand or not exposed in the same way, so I really do think there needs to be a conversation.

And this has been my approach, as I think my original post indicated. I don't think he'd show his old behind closed doors colours for a moment. But I do think that he'll drink far too much (his drink issues are not in any way new). And that then he'll try to belittle me in front of other people, causing real awkwardness. There' certainly a risk that he might try to make the daughter I've mentioned above incredibly uncomfortable. Her partner of ten years is great - he's extremely grounded - but he's not met my ex husband to have a conversation with ever and I know she's worried about him being targeted by the father she does actually loathe.

It was this daughter who said on the phone a couple of days ago that she feared her father would 'cause a scene' and that I was being naive about how things would play out. We hadn't previously talked about these weddings, so this was her first and immediate comment.

category12 no grandchildren yet.

Do you think maybe that the silence over it all is a self-protective thing so you don't have to confront any long-term damage to your own mental health (or probably what you fear most, your dc's)?

Yes. And 100% I'm concerned not to inflict further damage on my DC.