DC Weddings

[Evelinska]

I'd be grateful for any advice/ opinions. I've learned an enormous amount from MN over the years about DV and I only wish I'd come to it sooner.

Two of my DC have got engaged in the past few months and are planning their weddings. Their father/ my ex husband has had very little to do with them since I asked him to leave fifteen years ago. The DC lived with me and me alone after the divorce. Contact is minimal both between the DC and their father and between myself and my ex husband. My ex husband was very violent - high level violence - over a very long period and the DC (to my great shame) witnessed the injuries and heard the noise.

He has never been invited by them to any other major events in their lives (graduations etc) but there's an unspoken consensus that he ought to be invited to the weddings. I think perhaps this is partly to do with not rocking the boat with the partners, who I suspect don't know the details. We've all tried to move on. I completely get that position re. inviting him.

For some reason I'm feeling absurdly dragged back into the past by the idea of him being with me at a family event. I've tried to draw an iron curtain over the past and if my thoughts stray that way I push them away hard. I'm absolutely determined that the DC shouldn't have such a big life event spoiled but I'm seriously worried about him drinking too much and trying to put me down vocally in front of the other parents/ guests or approaching other DC who have told him they want nothing to do with him ever again. Basically causing a scene and spoiling the wedding/s. I'm able not to react but I can't do anything to limit his behaviour.

I also don't want to look as though I'm trying to stick my oar in with wedding arrangements but having some input into the seating plans might help. Then again both my DC who are marrying are the grooms, so I could easily look to their fiancees like an interfering over controlling mother in law to be - but as I say, I don't think either of them have a clue how bad things were, just that my sons think their father is a bit of a dick.

Any advice about how I can handle this for the best? I've had a few snarky WhatsApps from my ex husband recently. The absolutely key thing is that I don't want any of my DC upset, or their event or their sibling's event messed up. And actually I do think that at the core I'm making this all about me, which is something I don't like.

I think for your dd's sake, it needs to be discussed.

She shouldn't be expected to deal with her abusive father to keep up an illusion for other people.

Sorry to go on, but if grandchildren follow, then there'll be christenings etc...

IF he starts getting his foot in the door as an accepted part of family occasions, then he's on his way to being accepted into their homes with access to grandchildren and wives.

If they don't know what he's capable of, how can they make that judgement?

I don't know why he should get that opportunity to visit his dysfunction on the next generation.

I understand your desire to avoid bringing this stuff when your children appear to be dealing with it well. But it reminds me of when my wife died; there were friends who thought they wouldn't talk about her to avoid upsetting me. As if I might have forgotten her existence and her death and they didn't want to remind me. Whereas, of course, every second of my life was filled with awareness of her loss and i yearned to talk about her.

Your husband's violence and how it affected you and your children permeates your relationship with them and the silence you all keep about it screams to be broken. I bet that you all avoid talking about it in an attempt to protect each other, when the real way to deal with the pain is to bring it out into the open so that you all understand each other's experience and feelings. You have a right to feel hurt and your children should realise that you do. And vice versa: their trauma of seeing their mother abused should be voiced and understood. You would all benefit from a little understanding and love

Just my opinion for what it's worth...

“I’m behind whatever decision you and Bride make about inviting your father to celebrate your special day with you, and I will support your choice. My only request however, is that we aren’t sat next to each other, due to his past violence toward me.”

Have the brides never met the father? I’m assuming not…?

Emptyandsad I'm so sorry for you.

Your daughter was a child that witnessed domestic violence and deals with that legacy every day no doubt.
I think it is extremely dismissive of her experience to assume she can suck up being exposed to him for a wedding.
Why should she be put through this?
He is a violent heavy drinker, so very unpredictable.

It is spectacularly naive to assume a thug like him will not kick off when full of drink and start to verbally target the OP and her daughter and belittle and upset both.
Again, why should either be put through this?
Have both not suffered enough?
Your daughters reservations deserve to be considered compassionately.

I agree with @category, where does it end? Christenings? House warmings etc.
Will he be in all the photos?

I just cannot imagine how upsetting this will be to your new DIL's when they realise they have been deliberately kept in the dark as to the absolute horror of a man they have as a FIL, whom they will have given the false nod of decency and respectability at their wedding.

OP, I can understand this is very stressful for you, but this is too huge to paper over.

How will you respond if it blows up on the day and your DIL's are very upset?
I know many would feel very mislead.
I think starting married life with this lie in the background bubbling away, does not bode well for your sons.
Having children themselves may well be very triggering for them.

This violent heavy drinker is not to be trusted on this special day.
He has no business near it.

I really feel for you. It's a horrible situation to be put in. I agree with other posters on the whole. I think you should have a very gentle one on one chat with each of your sons. It doesn't need to be anything dramatic or big. Just a quiet chat together about your worries that their dad being there might be very difficult for their sisters and that you are worried that if he is drinking then there might be some trouble.

Even though you haven't talked about it much, your younger sons already know. You said your youngest was 7 when you separated. I was also 6/7 when my parents separated (also DV). I remember every moment in great detail of what I saw, heard, felt. Young children can feel what is happening even when they don't directly see/hear. They will know and understand why you are concerned - even if they still feel love or attachment to their dad. I think they need to know that it is okay to not invite him. The day should be happy and free, not bogged down with fear and anxiety.

I think it is a chance for you and your children to become closer and united, and know that actually there is no big shameful family secret. You and the children did nothing wrong. They need to be told that and to be told that it is okay not to feel bound by duty to invite their father. It doesn't mean they have to love him less or disown him. It just means that he is simply not part of family events.

If your sons decide they do want their dad there then at least you are all prepared as a little family (you, the children and their fiancees) to have eachother's backs if anything starts to go wrong. You can make some contingency plans. Otherwise, your eldest daughter may feel like she has to deal with any problems on her own and there is a potential for escalation.

I also agree with PP that your ex is unlikely to publicly show his true colours. I don't know your ex or your children of course...but from what you've said I think it is more likely that he will trigger your daughter in some way and she will react badly. She needs protecting. Either he is not invited at all which I think would be the easiest and best solution. Or you all knit together so that she knows she's not alone dealing with her abusive father and that you will all be there to protect her e.g. have two people designated to discreetly and quietly remove him from the building if things become unpleasant.

I hope you can all work it out.

I'm reading these posts carefully. I really appreciate how much time people are taking.

Also perhaps it might be really comforting for your DD to know that her fears and experiences have been acknowledged and validated by her family. Particularly if she has always felt like she's had to defend herself and always been the one to put her head above the parapet and call out the wrong that she could see...

He has no business near it

A huge apology if this constitutes drip feeding but I think it matters and has probably changed the game.

For the first time in his life he's contributing (as in, funds for the wedding). Hitherto everything has been on me but I'm now cleaned out. He wasn't keen in the least but I essentially told him he should step up like the other parents were doing. He seems to have conceded that he will give a moderate amount. He has made no contributions to university, postgrad, professional training or house deposits. I've been very lucky that I've been able to do this (not undergrad - they all have the maximum student debts). I sold the cottage we lived in/ I inherited as soon as my youngest finished school. I then moved 600 miles away from him and distributed the excess proceeds to the children for house deposits, giving as much as I could. So without his contribution the DC will be scrounging off their partners' parents and their own parents will be doing nothing.

This is entirely my fault for being very direct that he has always been a tight arse and that he should put his hand in his wallet even if it hurts. I didn't use that language I have to say; I was apparently 'sanctimonious' (the bubble in my head as I was writing didn't feel sanctimonious).

Not great but after the snarky emails and at a safe distance I felt it was something I could and should say. I think it's backfired horribly.

I think yes to drip feed but in a watery defence I would say that I didn't want the original post to get too long or too complicated.

So much helpful advice on this thread but surely the money aspect changes everything?

Funmumandson 100%.

Has he actually handed over any cash yet?

If he has, you really need to chat about it as a family, including DILs and your eldest DDs partner. You either decide as a family to give back his contribution and he is not invited.

Or you decide as a family to accept his contribution and he can come. But you all have a solid agreement between you that you will be a united front and have a contingency plan to 'grey rock' him together and remove him from the building as needed. The 'grey rock' together plan might be enough - there's strength in numbers. Polite but indifferent. It's very powerful especially if you are all doing it together. After all, you are not alone and trapped with four young children anymore. The power balance has shifted dramatically.

That's what I think anyway. Either way, you all need to talk about this together and have a plan.

Still think he shouldn't come though! Save yourselves all the stress and anxiety. And it can just be a relaxed, happy event for everyone...I'm 100 percent certain that the DILs (and their parents) would more than understand and support the lack of contribution from your side of the family. The fact is you are a lone parent who has sacrificed an awful lot for her children and enabled them to buy their homes (which the DILs are benefiting from). Lone parents don't normally have spare wads of money to contribute to weddings.

Funmumandson no money yet no. I think you're quite right: any money would need to be handed back, regrettably.

Incidentally they're mostly miles of the own home stage - they just have a bit of a deposit in the bank. But hopefully of some use eventually to their partners.

Well, the deposits are your very important contribution to their marriages and that is enough.

If no money has been handed over then you, your boys and your family are completely free.

Just have a quiet chat with your sons first and see what they think. You could suggest you all meet as a family. There doesn't have to be any sharing of horrible details with the DILs. Your sons could say (or you say on their behalf when you're all together) something along the lines of 'mum and dad split up because of domestic violence. Best we don't accept dad's money as he tends to be controlling. Best we keep him at arm's length. Maybe it would be more relaxing and less stressful if he wasn't there at all. Especially for DD as she has been through a lot dealing with dad already and she'll probably get upset. Also, dad's not great when he's drinking'.

Even if they end up inviting him, it opens the conversation up and DILs know the score and you can all make a plan.

This

Op, I used to have a house mate who did not invite her father to her wedding for being and alcoholic and fear of causing a scene. Her parents were still married but you can imagine what marriage that was. I do not know if he was violent but o attended her children’s christenings as well, still never met the father. Not me or anyone else in our circle commented on it. She had her well established reason and she was honest about it.
I would speak to both your sons , not DILs, as it is their choice if they want to tell them or not, and show what communication you’ve had recently from XH. Explain to them calmly how you feel, I am sure they will change their minds about their father being at the wedding.
You say he hasn’t given any money yet, do not count on it. He may be sending these emails just to play a game in hope he will get uninvited and his financial help cancelled.
And finally, if you were mother of daughters, would you not want them to know about their future family, ex members or not violent streak? I would. Hiding this from them would possibly become a deal breaker later on in life, and it’s all complicated.

I don't think the money does change everything. He's still a nasty violent man who makes you and your dd feel like shite and has a huge potential for ruining the wedding and a danger of getting involved with future gc

Did he contribute at all financially to bringing them up - whether voluntarily or via CMS?

It sounds like it has been all on you

The last couple of suggestions are very good. Speak to your sons together, calmly and explain the situation. You have time.

They can always use the deposit money as your contribution towards the wedding if they want

OP,
Unfortunately it does change things.
Of course I understand you have done your best.
But that money is 30 pieces of silver that is 100% not worth it for a minute.
Not a minute.
You have done all the heavy lifting.
He should not be near this wedding.
I'm sorry, but there is no way he should be there.
So what if the wedding is smaller and simpler, such is life.
Him being there will be a stain on the day, immovable IMO.

Talk to your son's.
You can speak plainly, clearly, without specifics.
Saying that you do not wish to go into the full horror of specifics.

This....

Stop the secrecy that's how generational abuse perpetuates.

Thanks for the further replies.

Yes there's clearly a very strong case for my sons mentioning the underlying reason for our divorce to the partners. But that's not to do with him being a danger I don't think.

As I said above, he has a very different persona with others. He was violent to me, once to a different daughter (but he couched that as an 'accident': he pushed her (her fault apparently) and she fell and split her nose/ had two black eyes). But I don't for a second think he'd do anything now - it was definitely me and living with me which made him violent. He has very much always been Mr Nice Guy to everyone else in the wider family and to non family members. He also damaged property frequently, particularly in terms of items which had sentimental value to me and also my car tyres when I needed to go out (indeed I found the outsize nail he used, attached to a piece of string which he once carelessly left in the side pocket after such an incident). But this stopped over fifteen years ago, bar a few things thrown at my back door and a few sneaky nails in tyres. I think the actual physical danger is all very much in the past and was overwhelmingly focussed on me. He actually needs to be pleasant to others to shore up his strong belief that he was more sinned against than sinning.

I don't intend this meanly but you are delusional/in denial about how bad it was.

Stop apologizing for him and talk to your sons and future DILs about the realities of the situation.

Right now if you explain in advance they will all support you. But if you stay silent and he kicks off at the wedding it will be at least in part your fault for staying silent.

If I were the DIL in that case I don't know if I could ever forgive you.

“it was definitely me and living with me which made him violent”

no. It’s wasn’t you. It wasn’t living with you. It was HIM who made him violent. No-one else. Him. He chose to do the things he did. Do not put the blame on yourself. It is who he is. It’s not anything that you did or didn’t do. He chose to be violent. He chose to. To you and to your daughter. He can say it was an accident and her fault but we all know it was his actions. And he chose them.

[Shock]

Oh my God Evelinska what a psychopath he is.

I think you need to have some counselling. You and your children really should have had this at the time.

I could be way off the mark, but are you sure you haven’t avoided discussing the matter with your children for so many years because they may ask difficult questions of you? Why you stayed and allowed them to be exposed to such horrors? They would be justified in asking and, in all honesty, deserve an explanation.

I think the right answer over the weddings is very much what your sons want. If they want him there, you will have to just get on with it. If they don’t want him there but are worried about awkwardness, support them with finding a way out of inviting him.

I do think it’s a bit much that you told him to pay towards the wedding and are now the one worrying about his behaviour. He was a vile, abusive arsehole at the time and still will be.