Husband is done with UK

[Prendo]

Met husband 7 years ago. He's from another country and came before Brexit to study and get work opportunities he couldn't in his own country.

Over past few years we've done well, improved careers, bought house, had DC. He was always not a big fan of UK climate and aspects of culture but figured it would improve with time and getting more established/ settled here.

We bought our house post lockdown moving from overcrowded urban area to nicer quieter countryside town and thought this would be positive change after feeling caged in concrete during lockdown. However, it's been hard to make friends, no family nearby (although mine visit every 6 weeks from 4 hours away) and neither of us are super extrovert with making friends so not the fairy tale we imagined. I was optimistic we could still make the best of it and keep trying but I feel like his mind is made up and he's done.

Long story short, 2.5 years on from move and one year post DC, he's not happy and ultimately wants to leave UK for a sunnier EU country, ideally with us as doesn't want to break family up but accepts it could be without us. I feel like this has been brewing for a while, I do wish he'd been more honest earlier rather than post mortgage and DC. Maybe I was ignoring signs too but we did make the plans with the best of intentions.

He's an EU citizen, so is DC (but born in UK) so in theory I can join them as spouse if we were to move. However, I'm reluctant to up sticks and start from scratch and possibly end up in similar predicament elsewhere- I don't have the appetite for it at nearly 40 and grass not always greener (I haved lived in EU previously in 20s for a year). I thought we'd built something here but it just feels like it was for nothing. Plus once his settled status in the UK expires after two years, we can't return to the UK unless we fork out thousands for spouse visas so if my parents got ill a few years down line etc, I'd struggle to help.

I feel like I'm basically faced with being a single mother in UK or exiled from UK in an EU country far from family. He's not giving me that kind of ultimatum or anything yet - he seems to want to muddle on a bit longer and see how it goes. But I feel like the writing is on the wall and I'm not one to faff around, I like ro make a plan and know where I stand.

Sat here crying trying to think of solutions/ what to do. We do love each other, he's a good man/ dad but I have the self respect not to beg/ plead him to stay if he doesn't want to be in country anymore.

I hope you'll be kind in your replies, thank you

I sympathise, OP. I'm in a slightly similar position and it's really hard. (My DH is from a European country, wants to live there but we are settled in the UK with children here and I want to stay. He is unhappy but I'm just not willing to move myself and the children for his sake, when I feel strongly that it's in our best interests to stay.)

How old are your children? Do they have any health conditions or disabilities?
Would you both be able to find good jobs in the country he wants to move to?
Do you have good relationships with family on both sides; parents and siblings etc, and would you be moving close to his family to compensate from being further from your family?

My advice would be to do couple's counselling to help you talk it all through. It's really difficult to find a compromise because you basically have to stay or move, but you could consider things like lots more trips and time in his country (if work allows, spending the school holidays there and working remotely, for example) and also relocation within the UK, if that works with jobs and budget.

Oh and your husband should definitely get British citizenship as soon as he can. This will give him the option to move back to the UK at any point, which will conversely make it easier for him to leave if that's what he chooses.

We were close to this issue, between my husband and I.
It's really difficult, I would definitely insist he gets UK citizenship before you move IF you decided to move, as you have very valid reason for concern regarding the immigration issues in the future.
What helped my husband settle was to connect with people from his home country living in the UK, even though that means often travelling into other cities or doing nights away etc.
He's also gotten much closer to my family since having our child which has helped him feel more settled here.
Also I am a big believer in needing to feel settled while our kids are at school and the education system is much better here than his home country which he agrees with.
We've talked about greener grass etc and looked at the different issues with his country vs UK and just acknowledged that its not going to be a fairy tale there either and isn't going to solve any relationship problems etc.
I also thought we'd agreed to put adventure on hold until kids were older too, so found the desire to just run away from our boring life difficult.
I also highlighted the stress and logistics of moving our whole lives abroad & also maybe back if things didn't work out etc. The fact that I don't know the system in his home country so more life admin would fall on his plate.
But we're in a happier place now, its easier to focus on holidays instead of a big move.
I would try and talk through all the potential issues with your husband if possible.

I sympathise, OP. I'm in a slightly similar position and it's really hard. (My DH is from a European country, wants to live there but we are settled in the UK with children here and I want to stay. He is unhappy but I'm just not willing to move myself and the children for his sake, when I feel strongly that it's in our best interests to stay.)

@AnotherEmma How unhappy are you prepared to let your husband be?

This is fundamentally the issue for you and the OP. How much unhappiness are you comfortable with the person you presumably love, and decided to spend the rest of your life, with enduring.

I'm also in a UK-EU marriage, and stay-or-move is something we have discussed frequently. So far we've always agreed on the decision. But if one of us was deeply unhappy with where we were, that would be a major consideration that we wouldn't dismiss quite as casually as so many posters in this thread seem prepared to do.

This thread isn't about me - I did have a thread about my situation a while back, where I discussed it in a lot more detail, but I'm not really willing to derail OP's thread by going into it here.

Of course I want my DH to be happy, and I assume the OP wants her DH to be happy, too, but the question is how much we are willing to sacrifice for their happiness. Moving might be in everyone's best interests and it might not. In my case, I don't think it would be, while it might be in others. It is a really, really tough decision.

There's clearly significant over-lap in your circumstances.

But why are so few people recognise that it's the EU spouses that are currently bearing all the sacrifice? and no weight at all is being attached to this.

Apparently it's all for the benefit of the children. But how beneficial are the possible outcomes of growing up:

• with an unhappy, potentially depressed, parent.
• with a single parent because the other was so unhappy they left.
• with a single parent because the extent of unhappiness/depression wasn't given any credibility until it was too late.

But it's not about the kids, is it? It's about one parent not wanting to move. It's a bad thing if a English parent is sad living in the EU, but it's an inconsequential thing if the EU parent is sad living in the UK. Note how many responses talk about difficulties of returning if moving doesn't work out for the English parent. Why's the mirror situation not important when the unhappiness problem already exists for the parent who's feelings don't count, and isn't a projected what-if.

I'm sort of in the same position as your husband. I'm a long term immigrant to the Uk and I do like a lot of things about it but if I'm honest I do kind of regret settling down here.
I've always struggled with the climate plus lately I'm getting increasingly resentful at paying higher rate tax for public services that don't work well and then having to pay on top of that to go private.
Also people seem to hate immigrants now so kind of wondering why I'm helping subsidise a country that doesn't want me here.
Plus things like having to go back to work when my child was only a year old, whereas in my country there's paid maternity leave for 2 years.
But realistically, our life is here and we got married on the understanding that we'd live here. DH doesn't want to move but he's open to spending more time in my country. Plus we do have help from his family with babysitting etc. and DD is very attached to her grandparents and aunties.
I find that the following helps, maybe some of it could be helpful to your husband:

-spending a month in the summer in my country, during this time we spend as much time on the beach and places like outdoor swimming pools, the mountains etc. Spend lots of quality time with relatives and friends.
We work from home some of the time and then add annual leave on that. Could you do something similar? Do you have a property you can stay in your DH's country?

-also having shorter trips at other times of the year when we fancy it

• using our stay there to sort practical things like going to the dentist (often cheaper and better quality than Uk) or getting medical things done that you have to wait a long time for on the NHS

-have got TV in my language at home in the UK, so can watch it in the evenings and feel like I'm in my country for a bit. Also listen to online radio from my country, get books delivered, join groups on FB for people of my nationality, cook traditional recipes etc.

-maximising the opportunities the UK does offer, while I'm here: working to develop my career as much as possible, doing things to feel part of the local community like joining classes, making friends with local mums, things like litter picks and other volunteering. Visiting interesting places and doing activities that aren't as available in my country. Trying to get out for a walk even when weather is bad. All that helps me feel like there's purpose in being here. Would he be open to any of that?
It does take some compromise on both sides. I wouldn't make DH move if he doesn't want to and I don't think you should either, if your heart isn't in it. But maybe be open to spending more time in his country and with people of his nationality, if that's an option.

To what extent has he planned this and thought it through? What would he do for work? What would you do? Which area does he want to live in? Can you afford houses there etc?

How is the rest of his life in the UK? I am asking because I was thoroughly depressed with work, fed up with everything, hated our house etc and thought the only solution was to move and uproot is all and my DH wasn't on board and I just couldn't see anyway forward. Turns out I was depressed and needed a change of job and was really helped by some coaching/counselling and now very happy in the same area that I couldn't wait to get away from. I guess will things actually be better there?

UK has one of the lowest maternity pay in Europe. Healthcare and education is often worse quality.
I do love UK, I actually enjoy the culture, the people, the way of life and I'm not planning to move anytime soon.
However I definitely didn't come here for maternity pay or healthcare and most Europeans can say the same.

@Bibi12 definitely! I'd be stupid to choose British maternity leave, childcare costs, annual leave, healthcare, general social security over my native country Sweden's, I had to choose it because I had a stubborn husband who wouldn't leave the UK.

But some Brits really do think they offer over and above what other European countries do. That's where all the "the grass isn't greener" and "all countries have the same issues" comes in. In fact the grass often is much greener and I don't think any other European country has been hit quite so hard by the CoL crisis.

@Snoken Yeah, totally agree. I'm not even from a wealthy country like Sweden (it's one of the poorer EU ones that gets slated in the Daily Mail), it does have its own set of issues but:

-healthcare: currently on a 2 year waiting list on the NHS for a simple surgery. It takes them 3 months to even send me an appointment letter. Private costs are very expensive and provision can be patchy. My city in the Uk doesn't even have a private hospital.
In my county there are many affordable private options and quite decent state-funded stuff too, at least in the capital (in other regions state provision can vary significantly to be fair, but still, waiting lists aren't a thing).

-2 year paid maternity leave in my country, free nursery and subsidised "children's kitchens" where you can pick up low cost freshly cooked meals for weaning and beyond. In the Uk I pay more than my mortgage in nursery fees and they often serve the kids things like pizza and hot dogs.

-Education - certain Uk universities are top in the world and have prestige, yes. Primary education seems good, lots of learning through play and different activities. Many secondary schools are woeful though, shocking behaviour issues, nobody seems to ever get expelled for even the most extreme behaviour. Every school has the same curriculum. Short summer holidays. Having to spend a fortune to live in a better catchment if you want a better school, rather than it being done on the child's own merit.

Yeah, definitely not here for the healthcare, education or maternity leave, tons of people from my country have left the Uk because of the aforementioned issues and Brexit, that's why there's nobody left to work and I can see employers are now hiring from outside the EU.

@Snoken yep totally agree. Having lived in Copenhagen and used to go to Sweden a lot too- if you are women with younger kids the scandi country's make it easier to achieve a decent work/life balance in my opinion - by some margin.

Overall there were things I much preferred there and a few things I prefer here ( I prefer our supermarkets and chemists for instance and the fact I can understand 'signs' everywhere ( but that's because I couldn't speak much Danish)

The idea though that the UK has 'the most' to offer is why we have an arrogant attitude that British is best and why the country is in a mess in many aspects . It may have 'the most' for some- but it doesn't for many other people.

In my case I definitely don't think the UK has "the most" to offer, but it has my family and that's the main reason I want to stay, among others. Also, if you have a neurodivergent child (as I do) understanding of neurodivergence is actually better in the UK than in some countries, and even though the system for supporting SEND children is very far from perfect, I understand the system and can navigate it, which is hard enough to do in my home country and native language, let alone if I had to start from scratch in another country and language.

Join him or set him free.

"Set him free"? It's not as if she's keeping him prisoner

He has a child, that was his choice as much as the OP's, so if he is a decent father he will feel tied to his child, whatever happens with OP.

@AnotherEmma and I agree on that too- which is why I said it will offer the most for some people and not for others given that it seems on mumsnet plenty of people are no contact with family etc or don't place importance on being local to them

OP, have you got any further clarity? We have a relocation situation of our own.

Update, we're still muddling along and trying our best in UK.

Husband still feels same but recognises we can't move right now.

I'm busy trying to save for retirement as currently only have a 25k pension pot at aged 38. I've opened an ISA and planning to invest well over next few years to have more.

Husband has even less saved and is 41.

When I point out the pitfalls of a sudden move to Spain for pensions (eg will affect uk state pension, can't add to ISA anymore, lower wages there, less ability to save) he doesn't seem to get it.

He just wants to go with the flow and live in the moment while I'm keen to save and get some money then potentially move when I don't need to work as much Anymore.

On the one hand he says he hates the 9-5 constant work grind of UK but then also says he'll be happy to work into old age if he doesn't manage to get a good pension and he'll do something part-time/ flexible. This seems like contradiction to me and not sure what employment opps are like for 65 year old ex pats in Spain??

I'd rather work and save (while also enjoying life still) then retire early in 50s

It all depends on what you do and your professions really.
I am a big fan of the UK and especially London but I think it’s only worth it If you work in Finance, IT, Legal, you are a doctor or have a succesful business. Othewise life is very difficult in the UK. High house prices, failing NHS, crime, bad weather.

I don’t know where in Spain he is thinking of moving. While salaries there are much lower than in the UK, Spain is still not Greece or Italy. The cost of life is lower, average salary is around €2,000 -€2,500 per person and they have better social services. Pensions I would think are similar to the UK but as I said cost of life is lower. Weather of course is unbeatable and Spanish is an easy language to learn. I am not sure about unemployment rate there though. A few years ago it was really high.

I do understand where he is coming from. I love the UK but it’s only worth it If one is in a high paying job, otherwise there is not much benefit. I think do some reasearch to understand what pensions are like over there, cost of life, where you would live, schools etc.

He sounds like a heart person and you're a head person OP, which is tough. For all our failings as a couple, both DH and I are head people and it does make things easier! I have a Spanish colleague and she is very clear that the job opportunities and financial side of things are much worse in Spain. She loves her country and would prefer to live and work there, near her parents and friends, but she moved to the UK because here she can work in her chosen profession, save and afford a decent life. Young people leave Spain in droves every year for that very reason. Italy and Greece are the same - few opportunities, low salaries, little opportunity to save for one's old age. I'm glad you're sticking to your guns. The prospect of old-age poverty is not a tempting one and you can retire to Spain, if you want to. That's the beauty of being married to an EU citizen - the rest of us lost that right but you still have it!

I wouldn’t be moving in a million years due to the fact you can’t move back with the children if you want to split. You are stuck

I think it's romanticising things to call him a "heart person", @cheezncrackers. Sounds more like he is very keen to live in his own little bubble, denying reality while OP deals with the real world.

No advice OP but I’m in the same boat myself! Partner from elsewhere, 1DS (2 years old), partner said the UK has gone down the pan and gets depressed every winter. Said he doesn’t remember a more grey winter than this one and he’s decided we are moving, probably to Greece. I’d love to but family here and no job opps for me abroad!

It's so difficult, I recognise UK has its cons but ultimately we both have decent jobs and we're able to save / afford trips to see family. His salary also gone up recently.

I know money not everything but it gives you more choices and freedom. If we move to Europe to earn a lot less, we may have sunshine etc but we'll be stuck working until our 70s - I just don't see the logic

If you have decent jobs and can afford holidays, why do you both have tiny pension pots?! It sounds like unless you make significant changes you will also be working in your 70’s in the UK.