Husband is done with UK

[Prendo]

Met husband 7 years ago. He's from another country and came before Brexit to study and get work opportunities he couldn't in his own country.

Over past few years we've done well, improved careers, bought house, had DC. He was always not a big fan of UK climate and aspects of culture but figured it would improve with time and getting more established/ settled here.

We bought our house post lockdown moving from overcrowded urban area to nicer quieter countryside town and thought this would be positive change after feeling caged in concrete during lockdown. However, it's been hard to make friends, no family nearby (although mine visit every 6 weeks from 4 hours away) and neither of us are super extrovert with making friends so not the fairy tale we imagined. I was optimistic we could still make the best of it and keep trying but I feel like his mind is made up and he's done.

Long story short, 2.5 years on from move and one year post DC, he's not happy and ultimately wants to leave UK for a sunnier EU country, ideally with us as doesn't want to break family up but accepts it could be without us. I feel like this has been brewing for a while, I do wish he'd been more honest earlier rather than post mortgage and DC. Maybe I was ignoring signs too but we did make the plans with the best of intentions.

He's an EU citizen, so is DC (but born in UK) so in theory I can join them as spouse if we were to move. However, I'm reluctant to up sticks and start from scratch and possibly end up in similar predicament elsewhere- I don't have the appetite for it at nearly 40 and grass not always greener (I haved lived in EU previously in 20s for a year). I thought we'd built something here but it just feels like it was for nothing. Plus once his settled status in the UK expires after two years, we can't return to the UK unless we fork out thousands for spouse visas so if my parents got ill a few years down line etc, I'd struggle to help.

I feel like I'm basically faced with being a single mother in UK or exiled from UK in an EU country far from family. He's not giving me that kind of ultimatum or anything yet - he seems to want to muddle on a bit longer and see how it goes. But I feel like the writing is on the wall and I'm not one to faff around, I like ro make a plan and know where I stand.

Sat here crying trying to think of solutions/ what to do. We do love each other, he's a good man/ dad but I have the self respect not to beg/ plead him to stay if he doesn't want to be in country anymore.

I hope you'll be kind in your replies, thank you

There is an option to swear allegiance to the country, as far as I remember.

@IndiganDop if I were hiding in a hotel or of Asian heritage at the time, I would have been very afraid. There is a racism problem in the U.K. Absolutely.

And the police are institutionally racist. But heigh if you believe that racism isn't a big problem in the U.K. despite all the evidence then go for it.

Op, I think you should let your h say and do what he wants. If he wants to bugger off to his home country then let him. He will regret it massively. He probably is wearing very rose tinted spectacles.

I for one do not understand why he wouldn't take British citizenship. Another passport gives you more freedoms. Limited ones after Brexit but still, it's always good to have more than one passport. You never know what national stupidity will strike. 😉

Settled status does not expire.

Are the siblings at the same stage of life?
Or are they single and living single persons free from responsibilities life.
if you both work full time and have a baby/ies there isn’t much time for socialising anywhere.

The point is that you didn't need to hide in a hotel if you lived in this city, though the media would have had you believing otherwise. The "riots" locally amounted to 5 people arrested. I make no statement on the general state of racism in the UK, just about the rioting. Yes there were dreadful pockets of terrible scenes but the whole country didn't descend into mob rule.

The people locally feeling the most fearful are the Jewish community tbh.

Mine definitely will. I have to move back to the UK within 5 years or I lose it. Pre-settled status allows you to leave for 2 years.

What is the reason you’re not living near your family?
With young children support is very important and if your family is far away, you don’t have close friends and don’t feel part of the community you’re not exactly getting the benefits of « living at home », are you?

I would look up jobs that he has a chance of getting, go with him to the country he wants to go to and look around houses that are in commuting distance from where he would work. Stand in the garden(if there is one)and look at the area. Work out the finances. I am a great dreamer but reality tends to kill most of my dreams quite quickly. If it doesn’t then at least you k is where you stand. A lot of countries are having a shit time at the moment with similar issues to us. It is hard to escape high cost of living and depressing politics right now.

Settled status does not expire.

My Dh’s settled status will expire 5 years after he leaves the uk when he retires, despite a 35 year career here.

I would not move to any other country with a man who was willing to leave his children, unless I was very sure indeed that I would be happy to live there in perpetuity and probably as a divorced woman. Because that’s what you’re looking at.

Family live in most expensive part of the country. We can't afford it there

I'm struggeling to see what's even in it for you to stay, nevermind him. You don't live near family, you have no ties to the area you are in, you haven't integrated into the new community, the weather is shit, the country is on its knees. Why would either of you want to stay when you have other options you could try where at least some of these things wouldn't be a factor and you both speak the language?

My concern would be that he wants this on his terms. You would like him to get a British passport but his response has been no. Even Brits thinks swearing allegiance to the King is a bit nuts but you'd do it if there was no other way. It's a one off. They're not telling him to hang the King's portrait over the fireplace FFS.

Also, where in Southern Europe are we talking? Spain, Italy and Greece all have high unemployment. What would that mean for his work and future prospects for you and the children?

DH is dual nationality and came here on his European passport. I made it very clear at the beginning that I would not move to his home country (at least not long term). Was always a bit anti British but the scales have fallen from his eyes now having been home several times over the last few years and speaking to friends and family. Lots of economic uncertainty there and our lives would be much harder.

Times are very tough at the moment and the worst in my lifetime (mid 50s) but I am hopeful that things will improve under a Labour government although we need to be patient.

Weather is shit but there's not a lot you can do about that. It helps to be British in that regard!

There is so much to do here and so many places to see. You can build your own community BUT you must be willing to put the effort in.

I'd be inclined to let him go if that's what he truly wants. You do whatever feels good and right for YOU and the children.

I am you, but 3 years down the line having moved from UK to live in EU country with EU husband and I regret it. It's very hard living far away from friends and family and I have not settled in the new county and now I don't know how to move back to UK as we have a child and he won't go back. It's pretty lonely and I'm faced with being unhappy but married or divorcing but likely staying in a country where I don't want to be.

Anyway, just think very hard before you leave and if you're not sure stand your ground and stay. I wish I had!

Yes. This. You are totally stuck if it goes wrong.

I think the irony is that if he could hang on until your child starts school, that's when its nuch, nuch easier to integrate into a new area. We moved out of London to a rown where we knew no one when i was pregnant and if i look at all my friends and very active social life we have here now, its ALL people i met through the children - other school parents, kids activities, sports clubs etc.

I think some people (maybe men...) in particular find it very hard to be moved away from their family and childhood friends.
They come across as very social when you meet them first, but if you look closely, they mostly socialise with extended family, cousins, or childhood friends from school. There's very little new friend-making.
But hey ho you don't notice and get married to them.
Transplant that person to a new town even, let alone a country and you soon discover the social anxiety that actually was there all the time.
They don't like change and won't get to know new people because they already feel threatened internally and no point increasing that threat.

Other thing is, he could just be depressed but trying to make it an external problem rather than his internal problem.
I see he's lived in the UK for 7 years, seems unusual to get pissed off now?
I'd suggest he go to counselling and see what the real issues are.
When a child comes into a relationship the dynamics change. It can take a bit of work to see what's going on. Does he feel left out? Does he feel nobody cares about him like his own mother does?
I'd strongly suspect some of that is going on...
He owes it to you to do a bit more personal soul searching and not take the first 'reason' his mind gives him for wanting to leave the UK.

100% this.

What's keeping you in the UK that's more important than your husband's MH/happiness?

I'd move just the better weather, but you have a multitude of reasons to make the move...

I just wish he'd been more honest earlier
Maybe he thought he'd get used to it with time, and that living in a different place would help? You say yourself that you were expecting things to be different. He wasn't to know how he'd feel in a few years' time.

When I got married (decades ago) and had children with someone living in another country (Germany), I did so knowing that it meant I was committing to Germany, and that if we broke up I'd be a single mum in Germany. But I didn't know how hard it would be to integrate into German society. It was really hard work, and being a foreign mum living there permanently and dealing with doctors, kindergarten etc. was a totally different situation to my previous life in Germany, effectively as a jolly tourist. I really struggled, and my husband turned out to be unysmpathetic and unsupportive. During that period I also found the weather really dispiriting, as I was already feeling low, so having to go out in multiple layers of clothing and still feeling cold as it was -15 degrees C for weeks on end was just one more thing to bring me down.

If you go with your husband, you're very likely to find yourself in the same situation, however well you speak the language and however positive you feel about his country now. And you couldn't just move back if you wanted to; if he wanted to keep his children nearby, he could stop you leaving with them under the Hague Convention on child abduction. An excellent law designed to stop one parent just buggering off with the kids to another country. It's sad that your husband would rather move abroad without his children than live unhappily in the UK with them, but why would you martyr yourself just because he doesn't want to?

What changed my attitude towards Germany was divorcing my husband after 20 years together. The children were young adults so I could have gone back to the UK. So it was my choice to live in Germany, rather than something I'd walked into. I now also have a supportive partner and have built a life here.
Maybe your husband will move abroad but come to regret that, and move back. Maybe he'll stay abroad and you'll make a nice life for yourself without him. I know quite a few expats and have seen both things happen.

I feel like I have a similar dilemma on the horizon. DH from a sunnier country originally, alway banging on about the “outdoor lifestyle” there, conveniently ignores the reasons he left in the first place. Whilst I don’t think he would move back there, it feels like he’s angling to move either to another part of the country (that we frankly can’t afford) because it’s a few degrees warmer, or overseas completely. He has never considered that being close to my parents has been a godsend since DD was born and he wants to uproot us to an unknown place with no support for the sake of a bit of sunbathing. All he thinks about is sunshine and the beach. If that’s what is more important to him than family and stability, he can bloody go.

I also live in Germany and I can certainly attest to what you are saying. Beautiful country yes, but for Germans. They do not allow you to integrate into the society easily even If you are born and bred here, speak perfect German but happen to come from foreign parents. This is not something that would happen to the UK. I mean it does happen everywhere to some degree yes, but it is less likely to happen in the UK.
OP, coming from a South European country I can tell you that most S. Europeans complain about the weather. Once they go back to Greece/Italy/Spain they can’t stop talking about how much better the UK was. We are just red blooded explosive personalities. Don’t leave. Let him go If he wants to. No other country offers what the UK does.

You can also put conditions on the move. For example, write up a contract that if you were to separate you will be allowed to move back to the UK with your child. Make sure it's notarised and legally binding in both countries. I think your options really are either he goes on his own and you and your child are left in the UK or you all go, try it out and if it doesn't work for you, you need to have a way of moving back to the UK with your child. Unless of course the child is of an age where they get to decide where they live.

Massive generalization about both European areas. I´m half English and wouldn´t move to Northern Europe if you paid me, but I don´t assume others feel like me. I´d pick Southern Europe any time.
OP what bothers me about your story is the fact he has stated "he would move without you". I feel this is a massive red flag ( in Mumsnet parlance) and very dismissive of your relationship. Even if I lived in England wild horses wouldn´t separate me from my child, the fact he doesn´t care is what draws my attention. Quite frankly I would let him go and stay put.

It does sounds like emotional blackmail to me. I don’t think he would actually donthat but does sound like manipulation.