Husband is done with UK

[Prendo]

Met husband 7 years ago. He's from another country and came before Brexit to study and get work opportunities he couldn't in his own country.

Over past few years we've done well, improved careers, bought house, had DC. He was always not a big fan of UK climate and aspects of culture but figured it would improve with time and getting more established/ settled here.

We bought our house post lockdown moving from overcrowded urban area to nicer quieter countryside town and thought this would be positive change after feeling caged in concrete during lockdown. However, it's been hard to make friends, no family nearby (although mine visit every 6 weeks from 4 hours away) and neither of us are super extrovert with making friends so not the fairy tale we imagined. I was optimistic we could still make the best of it and keep trying but I feel like his mind is made up and he's done.

Long story short, 2.5 years on from move and one year post DC, he's not happy and ultimately wants to leave UK for a sunnier EU country, ideally with us as doesn't want to break family up but accepts it could be without us. I feel like this has been brewing for a while, I do wish he'd been more honest earlier rather than post mortgage and DC. Maybe I was ignoring signs too but we did make the plans with the best of intentions.

He's an EU citizen, so is DC (but born in UK) so in theory I can join them as spouse if we were to move. However, I'm reluctant to up sticks and start from scratch and possibly end up in similar predicament elsewhere- I don't have the appetite for it at nearly 40 and grass not always greener (I haved lived in EU previously in 20s for a year). I thought we'd built something here but it just feels like it was for nothing. Plus once his settled status in the UK expires after two years, we can't return to the UK unless we fork out thousands for spouse visas so if my parents got ill a few years down line etc, I'd struggle to help.

I feel like I'm basically faced with being a single mother in UK or exiled from UK in an EU country far from family. He's not giving me that kind of ultimatum or anything yet - he seems to want to muddle on a bit longer and see how it goes. But I feel like the writing is on the wall and I'm not one to faff around, I like ro make a plan and know where I stand.

Sat here crying trying to think of solutions/ what to do. We do love each other, he's a good man/ dad but I have the self respect not to beg/ plead him to stay if he doesn't want to be in country anymore.

I hope you'll be kind in your replies, thank you

Maybe a massive generalisation but having lived in SEurope 23 years, Germany 5 and London 18 these are my observations (and many of my friends’). Of course my measure is London which may be completely different from the rest of the UK. However I do compare it to big cities in the other two countries.

@Christl78 as a white fair haired 62 year old I can def say these places have a lot I prefer. I totally understand if anyone is of a different ethnicity it's not always the same - in Denmark I can honestly say that despite being a very 'liberal' place in lots of ways- it really isn't in other ways-same vibe seems present in all the other places too including Germany - but and it's a big but it's not very inclusive in the UK either in many parts outside of big city's or 'liberal' mid sized places like Brighton/Bath/York etc -

I know Germany really well - all over it too- it clearly also has some issues, - we did think about moving there too but on the whole the places I actually like aren't that cheap, and a lot of areas and towns whilst nice to look at are quite dull- food variety if eating out isn't great too - supermarkets aren't great ( same in Denmark and Sweden) the idea Germany is some kind of fully functioning paradise is a bit far off the mark - although roads and public services are better than here.

I Would rather live in Palma!! As would most Germans it seems as it's full of them !

The UK is a very mixed bag , awful weather a lot of the time, non functioning services and generally at the moment 'a bit shit' - but even then if you live somewhere 'naice' and have plenty of money it has advantages- including lots of flights to warmer sunnier places -

@Christl78 I see you are comparing to London- on that I would agree- it's not a fair comparison though - give me London or Berlin or Frankfurt and I would pick London any day- but it's big money to live anywhere nice within 20 miles of London - try comparing Stuttgart with say Bristol or Leeds - and I would pick Stuttgart any day

You’re missing the fact that he is refusing to get his citizenship first for no real reason, which makes a way back for OP harder

This is really selfish of him. Aside from this issue, I can really see both sides of the argument. But refusing to get a UK passport on principle when that option is open to him is pretty pigheaded, I'm sorry. I think that if you did decide in the end to move to his home country, a condition of that would have to be that he got his British passport so that the option was there to return to the UK as a family. It's a small sacrifice for him compared to the upheaval you and your children would be going through.

Perhaps go for another holiday to the country he wants to live in and really truly try to understand how much everything costs. Houses, bills, income, taxes, childcare, car prices...everything. And write a huge list comparing it to the U.K. We currently live in the 2nd most expensive place in Germany because of my Husbands work, and yes the climate is beautiful but the cost of living is so so high that we're really planning on moving back to England. Over the past 5 years here, even on a really huge salary it's difficult to achieve all our goals yet all of our friends in the U.K. have managed perfectly. We miss the British friendliness, the supermarkets, the conveniences and actually also the weather (a constant 31C degrees all summer gets quite difficult). However, if your Husband is unhappy, I completely understand how difficult even the slightest bit of homesickness is, so be gentle.

I wouldn't want to do all that studying and pay £1600 for a citizenship I don't want or need either. There isn't really any motivation for him as he doesn't want to live in the UK. At the moment he has settled status so he can leave for 5 years and come back, but not longer than that.

Which is his country?

Refusing to get citizenship for a silly reason sounds pig headed.
Is he generally a bit difficult, or is this the depression talking?

You're only 40, we hosted a Ukrainian refugee who moved to us alone as a complete stranger at 60 - she didn't even know the alphabet. In two years she's learned English, got a job, and has more friends than I do. It's all about mindset.

Your family don't live around the corner anyway, if they're travelling 4 hours to see you it will be similar if they need to get a flight to visit you in your new country presumably.

I think your child will have more benefits from an EU upbringing, especially when it comes to work and travel opportunities later on.

You say you're not happy with where you are now so it seems the perfect time to leave. It doesn't have to be for the rest of your life.

What about her mental health and disrupting children who are happy?
She has am said she has lived in the country he is proposing and she wasn't happy

We live overseas (Europe). It's nice, I miss the UK but not really sure how it is these days I guess. Neither of us is from here though so we hope to return to the UK for secondary school.

What is your career, can you work in his country? Would you do well or take earnings hit?

How is the schooling?

I'd insist he applies for citizenship, then I'd consider giving it a go for a defined period. However with a pre-existing agreement that if it doesn't work out the child and you will return to UK and if he wants to stay then fine. Marriage is about compromise, but I wouldn't make yourself vulnerable.

@Prendo I haven’t read the comments yet but just wanted to tell you that settled status does not expire , the pre settled status is the one that has 5 years expiry.

I’m at the place your dh is (EU national, married to a Brit with children).

After 25 years, I still haven’t found a ‘niche’ where I feel truly confortable - mainly because I’m not accepted by the ‘locals’. Granted the area where I live isn’t very open and I know it would be different somewhere else. But believe me it’s hard.

I also found brexit really made things harder. Basically the U.K. was my home before. Now yes where I live with the added feeling I’m on an ejecting seat.

And yes the weather!! Or rather the quality of the light is making such a difference. It’s not SAD. Again, it’s hard to understand but when you’ve grown with a completely different level of light, it’s hard to live with the U.K. light. I live for the weeks I can spend ‘back home’ due to that.

I get that it’s not making it easier to you. But please remember that if you feel that it would be hard for you to leave the U.K., then it’s pretty normal fur him to find it hard too.
Its not because he was already in the U.K. when you met or because he had been there for years that you don’t find any difficulties anymore being in that country

Slightly irks that everyone seems to extract what they can from the UK; healthcare, maternity payments, education but then when it comes to giving back it's suddenly not good enough. There's a couple doing exactly this at my husbands workplace. Two lots of maternity leave and a couple of post grad courses. Now they are off abroad to where it's sunnier! It's a nice racket!

Not quite true.
you need to go back to the U.K. every 5 years at least (length of stay undefined at this time) to keep your SS if you go to live outside of the U.K. - eg vs k to your home country

He's being very selfish. If he didn't want to stay in the UK long term, then he shouldn't have married and had a child. He's already made his decision to settle.

Unless you agreed before marrying that you would one day move country, he's got no right to push you into this. Of course he's free to fuck off to another country and abandon his wife and child, but I would expect the child to want nothing to do with him in future.

Honestly, some men are so selfish.

To add: one thing i've noticed since living here is the additional layer of conflict that those with native husbands have. You would think it makes things easier in terms of admin etc, but it increases the pressure and the feeling of being stuck ime. We had one couple we met where the guy was a local and the mum english leave recently after only a year because they realised UK was better and here not all it's cracked up to be!

But life isn't static like that. You can't make a decision when you are young, childfree and single and expect to never change. Homesickness is awful and having children usually makes that a lot harder. Add brexit to that which was pretty awful for all of us EU-members who lived there and in addition how the UK has so rapidly gone downhill for the last few years.

If you look at it completely impartially, there is very little that is in favour of staying the UK.

Like many Brits tbh

What @Snoken said

Plus it is true that the U.K. isn’t doing well economically
the CoL has hit the U.K. much harder than other EU countries for example

When you have roots in other places, it’s much easier to see that and wonder why staying somewhere where things are harder

But life isn't static like that. You can't make a decision when you are young, childfree and single and expect to never change.

@Snoken he's not young, carefree and single anymore - he's put down roots made a commitment. That's not something that should have ever been taken lightly.

Of course he's free to ask OP if she'd be interested in moving, but if she says no then that should be the end of it. She shouldn't be fearing abandonment because of his selfishness.

@timetodecide2345 this happens in every country in Europe.

@MidnightMeltdown would you say the same thing if it was about a partner rather than a country?

Youve settled down with someone do now you need to stay
You've chosen him/her, how dare you change your mind and thinks he/she isn’t amazing anymore?

Of course you wouldn’t.
Because people change. Or you realise they aren’t quite who you thought they were.
So it is for countries. The U.K. now isnt what it was 20 or 20 years ago. Esp for ‘immigrants’
There is a reason why so many of them left to go back to the EU after Brexit, even though they could have stayed.

@MidnightMeltdown is she selfish herself for not making the effort he did by staying in the U.K. for so long?
ESP as she speaks the language at home already and she has lived there too??

Yes many parents ha r taken the decision
yo stay in the U.K. because if the kids. Just like parents decide to stay in the area where the ex is to see their dcs more regularly.
Bit done times, people gave to move.
eg it would accepted fur a woman to move away yo be close to her family/network instead of staying in the town ‘she settled down with her dh’. Esp if she is struggling MH wise due to the distance.

Same if it’s the woman who is in a foreign country and is moving back to the U.K. with her dcs, taking them away from their father and his family. This would be seen as ok ‘because she needs the support’

The answer lies in that he's said he'll move with or without you.

The love for you has gone. As the children get older and become independent you don't have a strong enough relationship to last as a couple.

He's not in the wrong for wanting to move somewhere where he'll enjoy a better climate and any other benefits he considers the U.K. doesn't have, and at least he's tried living in the U.K.

You won't be in the wrong either if you don't want to go.