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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Marrying my non EU partner good idea?

247 replies

K900 · 21/09/2024 09:17

Hi all,

My girlfriends visa expires soon and the only way for her to stay in the country will be to get married. I do love this girl but marriage does scare me as I never thought I'd get married this young. However if I don't marry her I will likely never see her again. Also marriage would open up a lot of doors for her in the future and give her the chance at a much better life. I enjoy spending time with her and feel I would miss her a lot if she was to leave. I think I'd be willing to give marriage a go with her as I'd really like to spend more time with her and give her a much better quality of life. If it didn't work out after a few years we could always separate I guess? Has anyone ever been in this situation or have any experience like this. We have been together 6 months. It seems a bit surreal to me but I don't want to lose this girl from my life forever. She is from Chile and I live in Ireland. Thanks

OP posts:
JustAnotherUserHere · 22/09/2024 21:04

K900 · 22/09/2024 20:24

This is actually her first proper relationship as well. I think we are both similar that we lack a lot of experience but I can tell her motivation is not a transactional one. She is a very pure and innocent girl, her main goal was to travel around Europe and see different countries. She was actually in Ireland 2 years ago but when her visa ran out last time she went to Spain for a year to work, illegally. She came back to Ireland at the start of the year as she liked it so much last time.

How did you guys meet?

HornyHornersPinkyWinky · 22/09/2024 21:12

OP this has red flags all over it - you have very little relationship experience, she's 'emotional and sensitive'...I'm guessing this means she cries when you bring up uncomfortable issues or try open communication.

Also you call her pure and innocent, but she was living illegally in Spain - which is pretty savvy don't you think? You are seeing what you want to see.

Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, you are a means to an end for her. I'm guessing she is very beautiful and exotic, or great in bed or something and that's why you are ignoring said red flags.

A guy I know from work had dated Brazilian girl who was in Ireland on a student visa and she proposed on the third date! Started crying when he said no, she was obviously desperate to stay.

People risk their lives everyday to get to Europe, whoever said Chile is a prosperous country for South America - maybe so, but compared to Europe maybe not so much. Otherwise why is she so desperate to remain here?

SkaneTos · 22/09/2024 21:19

OP, you write
"She is a very pure and innocent girl, her main goal was to travel around Europe and see different countries. She was actually in Ireland 2 years ago but when her visa ran out last time she went to Spain for a year to work, illegally. She came back to Ireland at the start of the year as she liked it so much last time."

Your partner is pure and innocent, but she went to Spain to work illegally.

ciaopizza · 22/09/2024 21:28

Could you even book a registry office in time? I thought the wait was 3 months (Dublin anyway) Plus she would need to get all the paperwork from her own country to prove that she's never been married before etc.

FoxtrotOscarKindaDay · 22/09/2024 21:31

K900 · 22/09/2024 20:30

Does anybody have any ideas where a Chilean passport holder could work and live without much hassle in Europe or else any other countries that would be good options?

What is preventing her from finding this out herself? You seem to be doing all the work to try and find a way for her to get a visa to stay in Ireland. Your update about her staying beyond her visa and illegally in Spain is concerning. She didn't return home and has complained about having to work and be a student, told you she's not had a serious relationship and is guilt tripping you to marry her because a long distance relationship won't work.

Are you really that naive?

mumda · 22/09/2024 22:09

K900 · 22/09/2024 18:57

I don't think it was to be fair, I can tell she's not in it for the visa and such

Yeah she is.

mrsCtheRed · 22/09/2024 22:11

Oh k900, you sweet summer child.
Please, run. Run, and don't look back.

If this woman is "pure and innocent " I'm Red Rum.

She has seen you coming, latched onto you, as, to be honest, you come across as very naive.
This whole, "sensitive and emotional"? Yeah she's blagging you. Manipulators are very good at this when they're not hearing what they want.

If she really does love you and see a future together, she'd grab onto the possibility of a temporarily long distance relationship, rather than trying to force your hand with ultimatums.

Please, take a minute and actually read back over all your posts in this thread. There are so many red flags here 😳

MrsElijahMikaelson1 · 22/09/2024 22:30

K900 · 22/09/2024 19:11

Yes I think kids in 3-4 years. But again since it's been only 6 months I'm undecided if I want to commit

Then you shouldn’t get married. You’re not sure if you want to commit, the you shouldn’t be. And don’t think that immigration aren’t all over this shit.

DadJoke · 22/09/2024 22:45

Tell her you don’t want to marry her and see how quickly she is through the door.

Honeatly, I don’t know you, but I’d blow you fit an EU citizenship.

SoapOperaFamily · 22/09/2024 22:52

I’m going to say it bluntly. My dad was stupid. Don’t be stupid. He married a woman who couldn’t get a visa because it was the only way for her to stay in the country. Within 2 years of marrying him, she had unexpectedly moved her 2 young sons into my dad’s house (which was quite a surprise for him!) and moved out herself. She had moved in with a different man and had 2 children with him. My dad was far too embarrassed to admit this to anyone, and could not divorce her because she said she would take half his assets (he had inherited a lot of property from his mother.) So he did not divorce her. When he died, no copy of his will could be found (funny that!) and under intestacy she was entitled to far more than she would have got in a divorce. And she took it all and tried to get more (claiming the 2 children by another man were my dad’s financial dependents too so were entitled to some of his biological children’s share.) She played a very long game, but it was inevitable she would outlive him as she is younger than I am. She was a manipulative, clever, scheming woman who wanted as many different claims to live here as she could get and to get someone else to pay for it. I suspect she’d hoped the illegitimate children would lead my dad to divorce her, but when he didn’t she sat it out. Her sister did the same thing to a man from a different European country, and is living off the spoils for divorce. My dad’s wife is currently back in her own country, and has used her inheritance to set up a massage parlour where she is on the lookout for another silly well-off white man. Her older sons grew to adulthood living with my dad, and now have families of their own in Britain. She comes and goes as she pleases, and has the wealth now to do so.

You might think all of this sounds implausible and a unique story, but it isn’t. There are plenty of gullible men out there being fed a sob story every day. My dad was stupid - he genuinely did not believe for a minute she was only marrying him to better her own financial situation and life choices. But she was. And we know (because we were told by a disgusted friend of hers) that she danced and celebrated after she pulled this off, saying she could not believe she managed it. Her actions and attitude have caused more upset in wider circles than you could imagine - the above is only a short precis of the years of deviousness of this woman.

Don’t be an idiot like him. If your Chilean girlfriend is in a relationship with you for love, your love will still be there in a long distance relationship. Her haste to marry you is indicative of a need to get a visa. You are just a means to that end. As I suspect my dad was - you are most probably thinking with your genitals atm.

Alternatively, go ahead and marry her, right now. But don’t come looking here for advice on the matter then choose to ignore every single poster telling you how naive you are being.

CrunchyCarrot · 22/09/2024 22:55

OP you don't sound remotely ready to get married, it's a serious committment! Your reasons for doing so aren't the right ones I'm sorry to say. Marry in haste, repent at leisure.

Sashya · 22/09/2024 23:08

@K900
I have been an immigrant in different countries, depending on visas and jobs to stay. It's not easy.

People advising you on here have all been lucky to have been born in "1st world countries" - not having dealt with being looked down because of your passport/nationality.
Sure - in some idea world - you meet someone and your relationship develops naturally. Then, you decide if you want to be together. But this is not your situation.

People have married friends to help out with immigration. People have married in similar situations to yours - and it can work out. Or not. Like any relationship,

Realistically - as you don't have assets that you risk by marrying (and combining assets) - there are not many risks to marriage. It's not expensive, and neither is divorce, if you have no money to argue about. It's a matter of filing a form online.

Marriage in the situation of immigration is a tool for letting the woman you think you love to stay in the country and give your relationship a chance. The relationship will not work as long distance - because she'll not believe you actually have feelings for her. And she'll be right.

Having been an immigrant myself - I'd do it for love, and certainly to help a friend - but maybe I am a romantic.

And no - there are no European countries she can just go to and work. Maybe can be a tourist somewhere for a while. But in her case - if my bf were not willing to help me stay around, I'd not hang around to wait for him to decide - I'd just leave and start my life over back home.

SoapOperaFamily · 22/09/2024 23:13

In order for my dad’s wife to remain in the country, he had to prove he had sufficient income and assets to support her entirely as she was not supposed to work until she had been granted right to remain and definitely not allowed to claim any benefits. Of course she did work - and squirrelled it all away in investments in her home country as she did not need an income here - my dad was paying for it all!

OP - can you show you have the required amount to support you both? I don’t mean how much you think you could survive on, but the amount the government stipulates you should have?

JustAnotherUserHere · 23/09/2024 00:04

Surely the risk isn't only about his properties or lack of, but about him thinking she loves him as he feels he does her but once she gets her papers, she's off. This leaves him heartbroken and betrayed. So many stories of this from men and women alike. This may or may not be the same.

Also, no one knows who's lived or grown up anywhere. Common sense is common sense regardless of 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th World.

JustAnotherUserHere · 23/09/2024 00:10

It's also a different matter when both parties agree to it rather than one person doing it because they think the other loves them and wants to be with them. Deceiving people and leading them on isn't right no matter how you slice it.

MarkingBad · 23/09/2024 00:55

@Sashya
It doesn't matter how privileged or underprivileged a country or background is, just marrying a foreign national for love or money and it being a wonderful thing to do (which it really isn't when you don't know each other because 6 months is not realistic) discounts the hoops this couple will have to jump through. And why suggest everyone answering here in the negative is speaking as a 1st worlder with no knowledge or experience? As @JustAnotherUserHere said no one knows who's lived or grown up anywhere. Common sense is common sense regardless of 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th World.

There is a time issue of 3 months for intention to marry in Ireland, they don't have that long as PP have pointed out

If they go that route anyway can they get all the documents ready in time for the interview that will probably happen because DP is an FN? Possibly not and would they have all the proof they need after just 6 or even 9 months into a relationship, very unlikely. Would overstaying a visa count against it? Possibly.

If they marry elsewhere in the EU as has been suggested by the OP as potentially an idea. The authorities know that sham marriages take place in those places however pure and innocent their reasons for marrying are. Sounds risky.

Considering the uproar over immigrants in the UK and Ireland this year it is more likely the authorities are keen to spot these kinds of work arounds to stay indefinitely/gain citizenship and call it out. Yep definitely risky.

If the OP is so convinced this is the right thing to do and it's all honestly and truthfully "loves young dream" why ask the question in the first place? OP knows there is something not right about agreeing to marry 6 months into a relationship and would prefer more time to get to know his DP, which is wise. It sounds like a huge heap of problems lining up at his door already. Hence why these lovely folk here are trying to help. Not because we don't understand but because it is a truly dreadful idea even if they are made for each other.

Dontbeme · 23/09/2024 01:50

I don't know this woman's intentions, but you sound too immature to marry OP.

Why haven't you got any advice from a legal immigration specialist about options available for this woman to stay in Europe?

Why haven't you given intention to marry to the state, as that requires three months notice?

You rattle off that if it doesn't work out after two years you will just divorce, but have you researched divorce in Ireland, you have to live separately for two out of the last three years, then apply for divorce which can take up to two years to process. So that's five years further down the road, you're early thirties now and want kids, that's late thirties back into the dating pool to meet someone and start a family. Good luck with that.

What do your family and friends think of this scheme?

K900 · 23/09/2024 14:15

Kendodd · 22/09/2024 21:01

I'd do it!
It sounds like you don't have a lot of money so it's not like she can then take half your house, because you haven't got one. Also, the visa thing is an issue pushing marrage and if you want to be together or even just give it a proper go, you'll have to get married. You can always get divorced. I would just make sure you 100% don't have kids for ages.
I know four couples, from years back, who have faced this same issue and got married, when without visa pressure they wouldn't have.
One couple it was a completely fake marrage, both vocal about it, only for visa (although they lived together and clearly mad about each other). They were both in their very early 20s and didn't expect the relationship to last long term anyway. They split up a couple of years later. Last I heard she was still in UK.
Second couple again fake(ish) sound more like you and your partner than first couple. Both mid 20s. He actually went to live in her country with her after a couple of years. They split after about five years of marrage, she stayed in her country, he moved to third country.
Third couple, might have got married anyway in the future but visa issues speeded this up. Married about 25 years, two kids, now divorced, both still in UK.
Fourth couple (this wasn't in the UK, it was in a different country but same issue). Been together about four/five months, certainly would not have married at the time, possibly ever, without the visa issue. Still together now, two adult kids.
These marrages all happened in the 90s.
Do you live together at the moment?

Don't live together at the moment, but we were looking too. The way I see it I was thinking of risking the marriage so we could have more time together. I think if it didn't work out after 1-2 years then I don't think there would be too much fallout with the divorce and such?

OP posts:
K900 · 23/09/2024 14:18

JustAnotherUserHere · 22/09/2024 21:04

How did you guys meet?

Met on Tinder actually while she was living here

OP posts:
K900 · 23/09/2024 14:20

JustAnotherUserHere · 22/09/2024 21:03

It's much too early in a relationship for you to be bearing this sort of burden and responsibility. 6 months in and you're already needing to be a 'family man' to save your relationship - that is a big red flag.

You both will have to do a long distance relationship and find a way to work it out from there. People do. Don't get married out of desperation because this is what it is for both of you.

That you've not had much experience in relationships may have made this worse for you. Use the logical part of you and see that it isn't a wise decision what you're thinking.

Yeah I know it's a lot of responsibility for me unfortunately at this stage, the circumstances suck I'm not going to lie. I would of liked a a better idea of marriage. Sometimes my head says No and then sometimes I'm thinking of Yes. It's quite difficult

OP posts:
K900 · 23/09/2024 14:23

HornyHornersPinkyWinky · 22/09/2024 21:12

OP this has red flags all over it - you have very little relationship experience, she's 'emotional and sensitive'...I'm guessing this means she cries when you bring up uncomfortable issues or try open communication.

Also you call her pure and innocent, but she was living illegally in Spain - which is pretty savvy don't you think? You are seeing what you want to see.

Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, you are a means to an end for her. I'm guessing she is very beautiful and exotic, or great in bed or something and that's why you are ignoring said red flags.

A guy I know from work had dated Brazilian girl who was in Ireland on a student visa and she proposed on the third date! Started crying when he said no, she was obviously desperate to stay.

People risk their lives everyday to get to Europe, whoever said Chile is a prosperous country for South America - maybe so, but compared to Europe maybe not so much. Otherwise why is she so desperate to remain here?

Edited

Yes, well I wouldn't say she is very exotic and very beautiful, but is very cute. She didn't like living illegally in Spain so she saved her money to come here to do a student visa. She does like the country, I can see that. She loves to go to specific parts of the country 2-3 times.

OP posts:
BaronessEllarawrosaurus · 23/09/2024 14:33

Would you getting married actually get her a Visa? You linked one previously but it doesn't sound like she qualifies for that. Do you earn enough to sponsor a spousal visa?

K900 · 23/09/2024 14:36

Sashya · 22/09/2024 23:08

@K900
I have been an immigrant in different countries, depending on visas and jobs to stay. It's not easy.

People advising you on here have all been lucky to have been born in "1st world countries" - not having dealt with being looked down because of your passport/nationality.
Sure - in some idea world - you meet someone and your relationship develops naturally. Then, you decide if you want to be together. But this is not your situation.

People have married friends to help out with immigration. People have married in similar situations to yours - and it can work out. Or not. Like any relationship,

Realistically - as you don't have assets that you risk by marrying (and combining assets) - there are not many risks to marriage. It's not expensive, and neither is divorce, if you have no money to argue about. It's a matter of filing a form online.

Marriage in the situation of immigration is a tool for letting the woman you think you love to stay in the country and give your relationship a chance. The relationship will not work as long distance - because she'll not believe you actually have feelings for her. And she'll be right.

Having been an immigrant myself - I'd do it for love, and certainly to help a friend - but maybe I am a romantic.

And no - there are no European countries she can just go to and work. Maybe can be a tourist somewhere for a while. But in her case - if my bf were not willing to help me stay around, I'd not hang around to wait for him to decide - I'd just leave and start my life over back home.

Yes, this is why it's difficult. I find all the posters saying it is for a visa mainly is a bit unfair as I know that's not her main goal. We both earn around 2,000 a month after tax and we both agree if it didn't work after 1-2 years we would part ways. But I understand both arguments here and that's why it is a bit tough.

OP posts:
K900 · 23/09/2024 14:39

JustAnotherUserHere · 23/09/2024 00:04

Surely the risk isn't only about his properties or lack of, but about him thinking she loves him as he feels he does her but once she gets her papers, she's off. This leaves him heartbroken and betrayed. So many stories of this from men and women alike. This may or may not be the same.

Also, no one knows who's lived or grown up anywhere. Common sense is common sense regardless of 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th World.

I don't think it's as simple as this as we could always separate after 1-2 years if it doesn't work out. You are only granted a 2 year visa in my country and have to renew it each time. You can only get permeant residence after 3 years together

OP posts:
K900 · 23/09/2024 14:42

BaronessEllarawrosaurus · 23/09/2024 14:33

Would you getting married actually get her a Visa? You linked one previously but it doesn't sound like she qualifies for that. Do you earn enough to sponsor a spousal visa?

Yeah she would, she'd get a Stamp 4 which allows her to stay here for 2 years

OP posts: