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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Am I being entitled or is this a red flag?

581 replies

4556689vdrfjjh · 05/09/2024 13:27

Sorry it's long, wanted to include all important details.

Partner (of over a year, no kids or shared finances atm) has a business trip to Asia and was thinking of extended it for a week and having a holiday. Invited me. This would use up the rest of our annual leave this year so last chance for holiday just us. I've never been to this country and he's never explored it properly but been for business and goes usually annually.

He will get business class flights paid for. He'd obviously have to pay for hotels and everything extra over there after the trip ends.

I can't afford the direct flights there and back (in economy basic) although family have suggested they could help as they think it's a great opportunity to go to this country.

Partner said they would pay for the hotel (which they'd be paying for anyway as they said they'd be extending their trip anyway with or without me originally).

There are indirect flights which I could afford in economy on an airline with poor reviews and changing in China. I'm not keen on these flights and a bit anxious about flying alone anyway let alone changing in China etc...

Partner feels like it's entitled that I have suggested maybe he could contribute additionally to the flights so I could come on the direct ones (and get same plane home as him). He says he cant afford this (although no figures have been discussed so he has no idea if I would need £200 contribution or £500). He is high earner and earns approx 4 or 5 times more than me. He does have building work he is spending money on though- but nothing that couldn't wait in my opinion if he genuinely can't afford it (cosmetic items). Different interpretations here on if he could "afford" it I guess and what he is choosing to prioritise. I have also suggested he could let me use some of his airmiles to reduce my flight cost. He did agree to this when pressed but as we've been arguing nothing proactive has happened about this as now he's decided if I can't afford to go then and the trip is causing an issue then he'll just cancel and won't go.

His suggestion is that as a "compromise" he'll cancel the extension to the trip, spend a few days annual leave on the building work and then we can go away somewhere cheaper in line with my "budget".

I feel like he should want me to go on this trip with him, it's a great opportunity to do this in a cheaper way and we need a holiday together.. I'm also annoyed that if we don't go then he won't just keep the full week's holiday so we could do something else for a full week's holiday that is cheaper (although my preference would be to make Asia work).

I should add that he recently changed it from being he'd pay for the accommodation only to I wouldn't have to pay for anything there.. but then in the next discussion he'd decided that he was cancelling the trip! Obviously if I had to pay for my whole flight and he was paying for everything over there then I'd accept the money from my family and make that work but it seems that offer has been rescinded.

As an aside, I've made comments about being concerned about the future if we were to have kids and how it might work on maternity leave as I don't want to be with someone who'd be like "well you can only afford x and I want to do y and we need to both pay evenly" etc and he said that was spiteful and it wouldn't be like that etc but if we were a family unit the finances would be pooled.

OP posts:
Roseshavethorns · 07/09/2024 09:19

I think a lot of people are losing sight of what really happened here
The OP's partner was going on a business trip to a place he had been many times before.
He thought that this time he may extend the trip and see the country a bit.
He said to the op that she could come out too if she wanted, all she would have to pay for was her flight as he would be booking the hotel anyway.
The OP had a choice of responses:

  1. It sounds like a great idea but I can't really afford it so maybe next time.
  2. It sounds like a great idea, I can't afford it just now but will be able to in 6 months so I'll put it on a credit card (the op is paying a mortgage and associated bills on an empty property and presumably contributing to living costs in her partner's property so I would imagine getting a credit card with a low limit would not be an issue).
  3. I would love to go but I'm not sure about travelling alone why don't we plan to go for a proper holiday there next year when I will be in a better place financially and we can have fun planning it together. Then they could have planned a trip that was affordable for both of them that would have allowed time to get over jet lag etc.
Instead the OP got understandably excited and built a few days added on at the end of a trip into a big holiday that defined their relationship. She then expects him to help fund her trip (to the tune of about £700 between cash and airmiles) and when he is not enamoured with that idea projects that when they have children he will leave her to struggle!

If it had been a holiday that they had been planning together and then the op found she temporarily couldn't afford it, then yes, he should have tried to help. But that's not what happened.

It's no wonder the partner said just forget it. A nice idea has turned into a huge issue.
And like many have said what has happened here can be seen as an indication of how both parties will act in the future. I would imagine there will be fewer "nice ideas" in the future if this is what happens. But I also don't see any sign of being tight or financial abuse just a really big mismatch of ideas of what an extra few days tagged on to the end of a business trip means

deeahgwitch · 07/09/2024 09:22

I agree with you @Campergirls1

Roseshavethorns · 07/09/2024 09:46

What was the destination? £1500 for basic economy is horrendous. I paid just over £1200 for premium economy Edinburgh to Bangkok in high season (and just about came out in a cold sweat).
We may have been able to find cheaper/ better flights for you if the situation is salvageable.

samanthablues · 07/09/2024 11:20

@Twiglets1 Change the genders and it’s a woman in a good job saying her bf of a year expects her to provide him with not only the hotel room but free flights too. I think more people would be saying let him pay for his own flight even if that means getting a cheaper one or borrowing money from his family for a few months.

I don't know about other posters, but if this was -lets say a civil servant guy- dating a female CEO and she asked him to go on a trip to Asia together (so much fun!) but he needs to pay for his flight I would call her "tight" and advice him to go camping with his friends instead. She wouldn't have my sympathy.

independencefreedom · 07/09/2024 11:35

Campergirls1 · 07/09/2024 09:10

Exactly @struggling MN is full of posters who will absolutely give a kicking to OP's who chose to completely ignore pre marriage meanness.

If a man is tight pre marriage he sure as shit is not going to morph into a generous man who wants to pool salaries.

My arse he will.
More likely he will be the type to say you pay the baby stuff and childcare if you want to return to work, often making his wife stay at home and be full-time house skivvy because she cannot juggle and pay for childcare.

Likewise silly women who aren't married, who give up work. He pays for the morgage in his sole name, and utilities, and she pays for the children and food.
Leaving her absolutely fxxked if he wants to throw her out after 20 years, entitled to nothing.

If a lot more women were a lot more suspicious they wouldn't end up ripped off by mean men, to have children they haven't a notion of paying for, despite their large salaries.

Meanness goes to the very core character of a person and only stupid people do not realise that.

If he was a good man that was genuinely loved her, this would never have come up.

He's a mean man who calls her nasty names the minute she questions him.

THAT'S the REAL person he is.

Edited

The only moral of the fantasy story you've outlined here that applies to the scenario the OP is in is that she should maintain her financial and other independence at this stage in the relationship. That includes living in her own home for now (and not being available to let in his builders etc), and not asking her boyfriend for money (eg for this holiday). It's just a recalibration of expectations. He shouldn't expect her to be on hand to do his life admin, she shouldn't expect him to pay her way. They both need clearer boundaries over one another's time and money until such time as they actually agree about the degree to which they share their respective resources (time, money, bodies eg having children), and make a more permanent commitment.

samanthablues · 07/09/2024 11:43

independencefreedom · 07/09/2024 11:35

The only moral of the fantasy story you've outlined here that applies to the scenario the OP is in is that she should maintain her financial and other independence at this stage in the relationship. That includes living in her own home for now (and not being available to let in his builders etc), and not asking her boyfriend for money (eg for this holiday). It's just a recalibration of expectations. He shouldn't expect her to be on hand to do his life admin, she shouldn't expect him to pay her way. They both need clearer boundaries over one another's time and money until such time as they actually agree about the degree to which they share their respective resources (time, money, bodies eg having children), and make a more permanent commitment.

Financial expectations, the big salary imbalance, getting married, having children and how money is going to be spent are things that should have been discussed before moving in together before becoming a "family of two", it does surprise me that simple money issues like this silly trip are popping up one year after living together. On the other hand if OP is going to stay at home in order to let in his builders he should reciprocate and pay her flight, after all "marriage" is about team work.

independencefreedom · 07/09/2024 12:07

samanthablues · 07/09/2024 11:43

Financial expectations, the big salary imbalance, getting married, having children and how money is going to be spent are things that should have been discussed before moving in together before becoming a "family of two", it does surprise me that simple money issues like this silly trip are popping up one year after living together. On the other hand if OP is going to stay at home in order to let in his builders he should reciprocate and pay her flight, after all "marriage" is about team work.

Edited

Sounds like it's moved a bit fast in that they've moved in together after only being together for a year and clearly haven't been completely clear over expectations. I think - from what she's said here - her disappointment over him not paying for the flights, his happiness to have her at his house - suggests that she should revert a bit to her own domestic and financial independence for now to achieve a bit more clarity. They know what it's like to live with one another now, and if they're both into being together long term they can either make a more definite commitment or not.

gannett · 07/09/2024 12:15

samanthablues · 07/09/2024 11:20

@Twiglets1 Change the genders and it’s a woman in a good job saying her bf of a year expects her to provide him with not only the hotel room but free flights too. I think more people would be saying let him pay for his own flight even if that means getting a cheaper one or borrowing money from his family for a few months.

I don't know about other posters, but if this was -lets say a civil servant guy- dating a female CEO and she asked him to go on a trip to Asia together (so much fun!) but he needs to pay for his flight I would call her "tight" and advice him to go camping with his friends instead. She wouldn't have my sympathy.

If she'd been dating him for only a year? Really?

A year is not a long relationship to me at all. It's nowhere near the point at which I'd feel ready to make any long-term commitments to someone. I certainly wouldn't have moved in with them. And it's way, way before the point at which anyone should feel an onus to buy long-haul flights for their boyfriend or girlfriend!

samanthablues · 07/09/2024 12:38

gannett · 07/09/2024 12:15

If she'd been dating him for only a year? Really?

A year is not a long relationship to me at all. It's nowhere near the point at which I'd feel ready to make any long-term commitments to someone. I certainly wouldn't have moved in with them. And it's way, way before the point at which anyone should feel an onus to buy long-haul flights for their boyfriend or girlfriend!

I’m not obliged or don’t feel the “onus to have to pay” for a partners meal/flight/ theatre tickets (she or he might be on maternity leave or in a much lower income bracket), I do it out of generosity because they have “paid me” in other ways that are non material and this is my way of showing love/kindness (independently of us having a sign government contract), but then my goal is not to die alone the richest woman in the cemetery.

BettyBardMacDonald · 07/09/2024 12:46

Well said, @Roseshavethorns

Calling him tight and mean and potentially abusive is ridiculous.

He made a suggestion, it didn't prove to be practical, so he suggested something more affordable and less hassle. That sounds like what a good man would do, not a villain.

I think OP and her friends are unhealthily fixated on his high salary. It's unseemly and undignified.

Many high earners prioritize savings, charitable giving, home renovations, helping family, etc over flash holidays and consumer goods. I'm one of them. If a boyfriend of a year started demanding my cash and airmiles, he'd become an ex-boyfriend right quick.

samanthablues · 07/09/2024 12:55

@BettyBardMacDonald Many high earners prioritize savings, charitable giving, home renovations, helping family, etc over flash holidays and consumer goods. I'm one of them. If a boyfriend of a year started demanding my cash and airmiles, he'd become an ex-boyfriend right quick.

The “Asian flash holiday” was his idea, he booked it for him alone then decided to ask his partner if she wanted to come along.

BettyBardMacDonald · 07/09/2024 12:58

samanthablues · 07/09/2024 12:55

@BettyBardMacDonald Many high earners prioritize savings, charitable giving, home renovations, helping family, etc over flash holidays and consumer goods. I'm one of them. If a boyfriend of a year started demanding my cash and airmiles, he'd become an ex-boyfriend right quick.

The “Asian flash holiday” was his idea, he booked it for him alone then decided to ask his partner if she wanted to come along.

So?

It was a fleeting idea that didn't work out. And now she is stropping because he didn't serve it up on a silver platter to her, and calling it "punishment." That sounds so grasping and immature.

samanthablues · 07/09/2024 13:03

BettyBardMacDonald · 07/09/2024 12:58

So?

It was a fleeting idea that didn't work out. And now she is stropping because he didn't serve it up on a silver platter to her, and calling it "punishment." That sounds so grasping and immature.

Sorry but I beg to differ, offering a partner to go on a trip that she can’t afford (when you make 5 times more than her) then getting into a fight because of it, then cancelling said flight because you can’t handle the “can of worms” you just opened is very immature.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 07/09/2024 13:10

How dare she discusses how her financial future is going to look like once children are in the picture and expresses her fears?

If marriage and children really were on the cards this would actually be a very sensible thing to do, but we only have OP's word for it that they are - and then only in the context of justifying why she should expect him to cough up

After just a year it may be that he views things rather differently, or even have changed his mind in light of events, but overall it's hard to avoid wondering if OP (and her friends) perceive an opportunity here

Pinguastic · 07/09/2024 13:15

Perhaps this man has had women bilking him for freebies in the past, and he is really triggered by her refusal to take the economic option within her own budget. Poor chap is probably literally shaking from being triggered, his friends are all rallying around him supporting his decision to stand firm.

sandyhappypeople · 07/09/2024 13:17

4556689vdrfjjh · 06/09/2024 12:47

Thank you for the replies.

I should have done a poll (not that I have any idea how to do that) but I've just spend a good 30 min counting up those answers that clearly said I'm in the wrong/ being entitled/ red flag for him about me and that's 90 posts. Those who have said they don't think I'm in the wrong/red flag for me to see about him and be concerned about the future etc are 87..I appreciate others just digressed onto bigger picture stuff and our future generally and I may have counted incorrectly. But overall I guess this show it's not a clear cut situation.

As others have said... perhaps the fact that my friends (who know more about the relationship and me etc) are thinking he is in the wrong may sway things more that way but I can see certainly that it is not a clear.

He and I probably have different expectations about the future and more importantly where our relationship is right now.

Your friends aren’t neutral, so is not a great indicator of his reasoning or motivation. They know you, and will of course agree with you, but that doesn’t mean they see the bigger picture of your relationship or have any insight into how he’s feeling about things.

asking people to pay YOUR costs is entitled, your friends may have the same mindset as you that it is okay to ask someone else to subsidise you, but that doesn’t necessarily make it right.

most of us are interested in equality in relationships and while our partners treating us is nice, as it is when we treat them, it shouldn’t be assumed or even asked IMO, as that makes it an obligation instead of a freely given gift, and can also set a dangerous precedent, that because you earn more they are always going to be coming cap in hand pleading poverty.

samanthablues · 07/09/2024 13:26

@sandyhappypeople Your friends aren’t neutral, so is not a great indicator of his reasoning or motivation.

But her friends know the real story much much better than us (strangers on the internet) and they can make a better assessment. As we’re concerned this could be a troll (not saying OP is) and her opening post part of some new Broadway musical script She’s working on. She could also have changed or omitted details as not to be outing (so we could not be getting the full picture). On the other hand we’re also hearing one side of the story, the friends (who know both people in real life) will probably have a more “balanced view” of the story.

BettyBardMacDonald · 07/09/2024 13:45

The friends sound like gold diggers. It's so tacky to be eyeballing someone's salary and discussing how it should be spent.

I remember when I was starting in the working world and socializing with groups of colleagues, my dad said "Always pay for your own drinks and meals." The young men he worked with were often hit up by female colleagues who expected men, even their professional peers, to automatically reach for the bill. So crass and the guys really lost respect for them.

Women wonder why they aren't respected as equals. Earn your own way, ladies.

BettyBardMacDonald · 07/09/2024 13:46

Well said, @sandyhappypeople

BettyBardMacDonald · 07/09/2024 13:48

Puzzledandpissedoff · 07/09/2024 13:10

How dare she discusses how her financial future is going to look like once children are in the picture and expresses her fears?

If marriage and children really were on the cards this would actually be a very sensible thing to do, but we only have OP's word for it that they are - and then only in the context of justifying why she should expect him to cough up

After just a year it may be that he views things rather differently, or even have changed his mind in light of events, but overall it's hard to avoid wondering if OP (and her friends) perceive an opportunity here

Exactly. "Ooh, you've snared a rich one!" springs to mind.

Imagine focusing all this energy on increasing one's own earning power instead of eyeballing his paycheques...

Kisskiss · 07/09/2024 14:21

samanthablues · 07/09/2024 12:38

I’m not obliged or don’t feel the “onus to have to pay” for a partners meal/flight/ theatre tickets (she or he might be on maternity leave or in a much lower income bracket), I do it out of generosity because they have “paid me” in other ways that are non material and this is my way of showing love/kindness (independently of us having a sign government contract), but then my goal is not to die alone the richest woman in the cemetery.

Edited

There’s a big difference between what you are saying (that you want to treat your partner) and what OP did , which was to refuse the lower cost option she could afford, and ask for him to give her 700 pounds in cash and air miles, on top of the already generous/nice offer of paid for accommodation…
people should be allowed to decide how they spend their money, nice gestures should be appreciated, not demanded nor expected. It is a very spoilt attitude to expect other people to pay for things you want.
lots of PP have made very reasonable suggestions which is to say “sorry thanks, but can’t afford it “
that would be the more normal response in this situation .

samanthablues · 07/09/2024 14:36

@Kisskiss It is a very spoilt attitude to expect other people to pay for things you want.
lots of PP have made very reasonable suggestions which is to say “sorry thanks, but can’t afford it “
that would be the more normal response in this situation .

I would have too replied “sorry but can’t afford it, you go to Asian and enjoy your trip” then I would have planned a fun outing with friends while he’s gone, no biggie really. I would have never asked him to fund my trip.This said…the experience would have taught me a big lesson on how un generous to me this man is, specially when I’ve been helping him with admin and staying at his home letting his builders in etc… This doesn’t sound like team work and I would sit, have a serious chat with him about finances, expectations and depending on the outcome I would start preparing my exit. Her biological clock is ticking so she may stay but there’s going to be big money problems ahead if cards are not clearly lied on the table.

BettyBardMacDonald · 07/09/2024 14:48

Why is it un-generous" to expect a short-term girlfriend to pay her way to a holiday destination?

I think his generosity lies in foregoing the expensive option and suggesting an alternative within her budget.

Letting a tradesman in is a mild favour any neighbour would do; it's hardly the same as forking over hundreds of pounds for a frivolous reason to a supposedly independent adult.

samanthablues · 07/09/2024 14:52

@BettyBardMacDonald Why is it un-generous" to expect a short-term girlfriend to pay her way to a holiday destination

This is not her “short term girlfriend”, this is her partner, the woman he lives with, the one who is planning to have children and create a future with, she is his “family”, or that’s what the OP says, he on the other hand could have a different agenda…

BettyBardMacDonald · 07/09/2024 14:58

samanthablues · 07/09/2024 14:52

@BettyBardMacDonald Why is it un-generous" to expect a short-term girlfriend to pay her way to a holiday destination

This is not her “short term girlfriend”, this is her partner, the woman he lives with, the one who is planning to have children and create a future with, she is his “family”, or that’s what the OP says, he on the other hand could have a different agenda…

Edited

I have my doubts as to whether he's on board with the progression to marriage and children. He seems wary about whether he's loved for himself or his bankroll. I would be, too.

A one-year relationship is short-term.

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