Neurodivergent partner doing my head in this week

[CosmoQ]

He is high functioning and does have a tendency to lecture every so often. His dad has given him a bollocking for it in the past.

Anyway we spent 10 days together, the longest amount of time ever so far, and he was disagreeable about 30% of the time.

Examples:

• we were talking about a Robert De Niro film and I said 'yeah I like him but prefer Al Pacino'. Him: what's the point in preferring him, why can't you just appreciate each actor separately?
• me: well most male birds are more colourful than female birds for mating reasons. Him: hmm I don't think you can say that for sure without the stats
• why are you having sugar in your coffee?

Last night I finally said I'd had enough of being disagreed with all the time as it made me feel undermined. He said he'd take it on board as he doesn't want to upset me but this morning was at it again!

We've had such a lovely relationship so far and I don't understand why he has to oppose me all the time.

Yeah, I can't see this one working. While we are talking about insensitive wording though, your thread title comes across as a bit goady/clickbait style (even though it's in Relationships not AIBU, it'll just show up in Active and it's a bit , it may be worth getting MNHQ to edit it if possible?). It's going to turn into Fight Club otherwise and it'll be hard to filter advice. (Mine is, this relationship won't be a happy long term one, if that's what you want, end it now for both of your sakes, sorry)

If we may derail slightly, if you prefer Al Pacino (I agree with you) as an actor in general , who you prefer as a "stand alone on that film performance" in Godfather 2? I actually prefer DeNiro in it.

Sorry, was that a typo? You've lost me.

I don't think you're compatible.

That rather confirms my suspicion that it's as much sexist male behaviour as autistic behaviour in his case.

He’s not wrong though, perhaps he’s as tired of your random generalisations as you are of his precision.

@Catsmere

sorry, tagged you by mistake!

Wow you pulled that from the post. The OP is wrong because you don’t agree with her opinions. Is she wrong for feeling drained by certain types of behaviour too? Just wrong all around. 🤣🤣

In the examples - He's not opposing you - just asking for clarity, accuracy

I mean what is wrong with asking why are you having sugar ? You could just answer the question?

Fuck, I missed the end off so my post just looks insensitive (ironic, sorry) I genuinely am interested in your opinion, but I was going to follow up with the fact DH and could debate this (and extremely similar) question for hours, and have frequently done so We may often disagree (as he doesn't have a secret "which one would I rather shag" category) however we listen to each other, and question each other and have made the active effort not to talk over each other, for example. Our desire to be happy together is stronger than my very strong desire to always prove myself right, so we have both made an effort, but it sounds like we had stronger foundations. If your DP is annoying you to to this level this early on in the relationship, you have already raised areas you're not happy with to no effect, it's a shaky start. I just can't see it working.

You don't say how long you've been together unless I've missed it but this was the first "more prolonged" living together period, as opposed to holidays, it can't be terribly long? It sounds like he annoys you too much (and probably the opposite) and unless you are both willing to listen, take on board and compromise, it won't work. There is probably someone each of you will be better suited to, and while some reasonable compromise is ok in relationships (IMO), expecting change on a very basic and fundamental level, isn't realistic. It's not sustainable.

Everyone has the right to throw someone back in the sea, for whatever reason, including the fact they themselves cannot deal with someone else's disability/condition etc etc. It's better to be as honest as possible, and as soon as possible, for everyone's sakes.

Haven’t read the full thread as it’s quite long now, apologies, but as an autist myself…

He feels comfortable enough with you to no longer constantly mask. This is his true unfiltered personality you’re seeing now.

I would be exhausted by this, I call it the ‘Ummm actually…’ speaking / conversation style. I can’t cope with that at all. Not all autists are like this.

If you’ve clearly and directly told him you don’t like it when he does that, and he still does it, I’m not sure what else can be done to be honest. Actually, you could try saying the next time he does it (after the clear discussion) ‘You’re doing it again’, and stop engaging him further in that discussion. He’s not incapable of modifying his behaviour to be acceptable to his partner. We don’t need to express every little thought we have at all times. He needs to learn this.

I think it’s not about whether he should make any adjustment, it’s whether he can. I’ve been married 20 years to an autistic man for whom every conversation has come to feel like an aggressive interrogation in which I am an enemy he must argue to the death, and/or some sort of droid who exists to provide him with information when he can’t be arsed checking important emails / the weather forecast / Google (and then feels I’m being by horrible to him if I’m not able to smilingly deliver accurate, to-the-minute, preferably peer-reviewed information exactly when he wants it and in a format he can easily understand).

We’ve had couples therapy, we’ve had endless conversations - and the crux of it really is that he can only communicate the way he communicates / think the way he thinks / feel the way he feels, and if I object to being spoken to like I’m shit on his shoe, I am picking on him. Because he knows what’s right and what’s wrong, and he knows he’s a good person, so if I am unhappy with his behaviour I am, de facto, wrong.

If I don’t agree that he is right about everything (including utterly inconsequential opinions e.g. my preferred way to cook asparagus, which he doesn’t even eat but still feels the need to weigh in on if he thinks I’m doing it ‘wrong’) and manage his enormous anxiety by making all the decisions (and taking all the blame if something doesn’t work out) then I am being cruel and horrible, because he is who he is and nothing most people do or say makes sense to him, and the entire world is a giant irritant from which my purpose is to buffer him.

It won’t change. It can’t change. Wishing it will change is a waste of your time and energy. Get out now before you’re trapped with kids and a mortgage.

It's not too much to ask, but in my experience people don't change. And holding onto a relationship on the hope that they will rarely has a good outcome. It's much better for everyone if you find someone you're compatible with.

@Bunnyhair I feel for you! My ex was like this. People joked about him being neurodivergent, though he didn't think he was and he was never assessed.

But he was exactly the same: criticised everything I did and was never wrong. But if I ever expressed unhappiness about the way he spoke to me or made me feel, I was a cruel person who was accusing him of being a bad person.

His feelings, views, and needs and ways were always right, important, and centre stage; mine were always wrong. Horrible way to live. I got out after 5 years, on the cusp of buying a house together. I now live in peace with someone I actually get along with.

Doesn't matter who's right or wrong: if you're not compatible and make each other miserable, just get out. It will only get worse.

A few years ago there was a Radio 4 programme featuring a boy of about 11 who was very high-functioning autistic. He explained that although he couldn't "naturally" fit in to conversations (like the give-and-take that is missing in the OP), he had decided, or been taught, to treat it as a cognitive problem.

For example, when OP puts sugar in her coffee, most people would not even notice, or perhaps if they had recently given up sugar in coffee they would smile a little to themselves, but hardly anyone would mention it. This boy would go (internally) "Hmmm, she's putting sugar in her coffee, it would be healthier if she didn't... stop, think, perhaps from what I've learned about how NT people are, she might not appreciate it if I mentioned it".

He said that he still had lapses, but that he was basically able to fit into a whole range of social situations, although it got tiring after a while.

I'm not suggesting that OP takes this on as a project, but perhaps it illustrates the difficulties. As a PP said, autism is considered a disability for a reason, because it makes people hard for NT people to live with. Perhaps if 40% of the population was ND we would all get along better, but I don't think NT people have to beat themselves up either. It just is what it is.

A lot of this behaviour above sounds like selfishness, just because you are ND doesn’t mean you get a free pass to be selfish and ignore your partner’s needs as well (and I say this as an Autist myself). It may not always be easy but it’s possible. I get very upset over certain issues (namely, the treatment of women), and I could rant every day about this. However it isn’t fair on my partner to have to listen to someone ranting about the same issue everyday. Before I realised this, I used to rant a lot and he does agree with me and understands why I’m upset, and he’s never once told me to stop, but I can’t possibly see how that could be nice to live with. So I modify my behaviour and keep the ranting to a minimum! There’s no reason why your partner can’t do that as well, he’s already proven he can.

What? We aren't all one homogenous person. It's entirely possible OP will find some one who she does click with who is ND

The thing is, as we can see from this thread, there are lots of ND people who have a different communication / conversational style, but it is rooted in curiosity / interest rather than anxiety. I think this is the big difference. I wonder if the OP would be fine with a lighthearted freewheeling chat about De Niro vs Pacino and why we feel we need to compare certain genre actors etc. I think that would be an interesting conversation as well! But the difference is in the tone and the general motivation for having that particular conversation.

i ended up with an ND partner because I generally get on well with ND folks - precisely because of the creative thinking and different perspectives and interesting conversations. But the huge anxiety and the black & white thinking & the need to be right is a big feature of some (not all!) ND presentations, particularly when under stress - and this is what becomes so difficult in long term relationships once the big life stressors of kids and careers and financial responsibilities come along.

That’s when the chats about Pacino vs DeNiro becomes, for our stressed-out ND partners, some kind of existential battle where we are assaulting their very right to exist (which is predicated on their always being right) by expressing an opinion or a preference they don’f think we should have - and we must be either brought round to total agreement with all of their opinions, or vanquished. It’s exhausting.

That will definatly be part of it. You;ll find that he is like it at work, and they have to put up with it.I have literally just walked away from a conversation where someone is telling me I'm doing everything wrong (and I'm just saying that there are different ways to achieve the same result). When he gets like this, I know it's because his misses had told him off. He even admits to it a few days later. I'd say either be very very patient for a very long time andtry to change him (unlikely) or decide that you just want to be with someone who says "Al Pacino? I see what you say, but I do like DeNiro's more modern stuff. Heah perhaps we should watch Heat, because they are both in that. Anyway, you up for a bit of Whoo Ha?".

I'm autistic. I know we aren't one homogenous person, but she is expecting him to completely change an innate trait of his autistic personality. I see it all the time...NT OPs or posters wanting autistic people to be a bit less autistic. And I'm sick of it. If you don't like ND traits, you know where the door is. You can't expect someone to mask their entire lives.

@HeyPrestoAlakazam maybe OP is not an expert on autism, hasn’t got the experience of living with someone with autism and therefore does not fully comprehend that these traits are unchangeable? That he simply cannot change? Maybe, being NT herself, she approaches his behaviours as she would towards a NT person, i e expressing her distress and her desire for him to adjust his behaviours?
It’s can be difficult for an NT person to understand (I’m not talking logically understand, but fully comprehend, believe and accept) that autism cannot be ‘worked on’.

Well, that's the point I was initially trying to make. Maybe she's not right for him, or anyone ND. But a pp took offence.

The pure arrogance of this is so twatty that it's hard to imagine wanting to be around him.
Life is too short.
I have autism in my family of both sexes, an neither present like this at all.
Thank god.

Her OH approach is not the higher path. He's being a jerk. He's not the only one.

As are a number of posters queuing up to put the boot in to OP and accusing her of being ableist and/or trivial.
Being ND does NOT make you always right, or more rational, or more worthy of consideration/ winning an argument. Two to tango and all that.

I agree with this.

Random one-sided arguing often seems to stem from emotions not logic/desire for accuracy.

I have ND traits. Bit too old to have had early diagnosis but have managed to approach peace and carve my path.

My late father was ND and learning more helps me feel a lot more compassionate after just "not understanding" why he acted the way he did.

So I know I tend to get socially anxious and caught up in my experiences, and ideally need to self-regulate and reduce stress and have a calm home environment.

I actually don't believe the "talk to a friend if you're stressed" advice necessarily works with ND people. Self-soothing techniques or physical exercises may work better.

I think I'm reasonably perceptive and intelligent, and my external capabilities and achievements reflect that.

However, I don't randomly evolve into Alan Turing or Spock when I've had anxious talking episodes (not recently, I'm grateful to say).

It's just emotions, possibly fuelled by anxiety. And I can see how in that state it could be fairly unpleasant/domineering for the other party listening.

As I'm completely caught up in myself and they're just "audience".