If a child discloses they feel unsafe when dad collects them from school, what should teachers do?

[Campari20]

Currently having major issues with DD going to overnight contact. She is scared and doesn't want to go. Clearly has articulated the reasons as to why to her father also but he refuses to listen to her.
Current contact is EOW Saturday to Sunday, one night. Handovers have been utterly awful.
I have submitted an application back to court to get the matter varied back to day contact, however still need to make her available for the current contact as awful as it is :( I am completely stuck.
I suggested a school pick up to DD instead as the problem is she becomes inconsolable at handovers when I am there.. it is also not a handover issue, it is a contact issue. Nevertheless, DD has told me that she will cry and scream and tell her teachers she doesn't feel safe going. Before I suggest this to her father, I was just wondering what the school would do if DD disclosed this upon pick up? would they make her go? keep her in the classroom and call me? The school are aware of the domestic history and do not think much of dad as he has called them ranting and raving about me etc. First day back of term today so not likely to get a call from school today so just wanted to know if anyone had experience of this.

If you believe that there is abuse then you can stop contact, i would contact social services for specific advice. If you believe that your dd could be saying certain things, let's say exaggerating to get the result she wants - not to go to her dads, that's different and yes it's a different approach

In contrast, my experience has been that it appears to favour abusive mothers but it all depends what judge you get on your case and what agenda the involved professionals have unfortunately.

@GuestFeatu Exactly. This is the standard response by all professional organisations to ensure they don't become liable for encouraging people to go against the order of the court but at the same time acknowledging that the parent can use their PR if they choose to. Like you say, it doesn't mean there will be no consequences for doing so.

If you think it's actually the hand over process that is the issue, can I suggest you use a contact centre to hand over on the Saturday, she will sit with the volunteers whilst you leave then 10 minutes later her dad will come in

Its not a handover issue. It's an issue with contact.

@Campari20 What has your solicitor advised regarding contact?

You are wrong on so many counts throughout this thread. If the OP wishes to arrange a different collection point with the father that is not a breach of the order, you’re always allowed to change things if agreed..

This. I wish you the best OP 💐

@KurtShirty Correct and there's usually a clause in the order saying something to the effect of any other contact agreed by the parties.

I also wanted to add that if the father didn't want to have the ordered contact and didn't see his daughter, that also would not be a breach of order.

Thank you, and for what it’s worth, the system lets a lot of men down as well. It’s just fucked and needs tearing down and rebuilding

@KurtShirty Thank you and I completely agree. It lets down both mothers and fathers in different cases but more so, it lets the children down.

What I can never wrap my head around is, say you're living in a household where the father is abusive, social services will say that he needs to leave the house and if not, the mother risks losing her children. Yet if the same couple separates, you can guarantee the father will be ordered to have contact, usually ending up unsupervised.

None of it makes sense and there's so much of it I don't agree with.

The problem is that they prioritize parental "rights" over the safety and well-being of children and allegations of abuse are often not believed. In fact many lawyers recommend not making allegations when there has been abuse, because some judges hold it against the protecting parent.

@Life2Short4Nonsense Absolutely! Which is ridiculous for those parents who are genuinely wanting to protect their children from harm. Obviously there are some who make false allegations but I find it fundamentally wrong that a parent is discouraged from raising these concerns.

you can call me wrong all you like. there is no way in hell i would be handing my child over to a person that i believe is hurting my child! i would die for my child.. if i had to serve a prison sentance for them i would!

we don't know enough about this particular case as the OP is being evasive with their answers to certain questions which leads me to believe that there is way more to this story than we are being told.

in answer to the OP's original question.. If a child discloses they feel unsafe when dad collects them from school, what should teachers do?

the answer is: assuming this is the first they have heard it, they have a responsibility to safeguard the child which will probably mean preventing the father from taking the child and submitting a referral. but its unfair of the OP to land this at schools door knowing full well the child will make the disclosure.

if the OP is hell bent on sending the child too its abusive parent, then they need to find another way of doing it.. what that way is i do not know.

Totaly understand your strength of feeling, but if she withholds contact, she risks losing her daughter completely and being unable to sheiks her. You have given incorrect legal advice on this thread and you are also shaming the OP for doing what she has to do in a very horrendous situation. I just think it would be better if you did a bit more reading and absorbing the horrible dilemma she is in rather than telling her to put herself in more risk.

This! 100%

Has nobody contacted SS?

This. Breaking court orders can lead to serious consequences. It needs to go back to court, with the help of a solicitor.

I'm a social worker and a good one, not perfect but good at my job. Cafcass workers are just social workers same as me but they get elevated in court to experts with no accountability. I've known a good number of social workers who burnt out in child protection and went to cafcass as it's an easy option. Shameful. In private proceedings cafcass is the only professional who reports to court and nobody reads and checks their reports. They can write the most awful biased rubbish based on poor knowledge of DV etc and nobody checks or corrects them. Nobody checks their recommendations at all. Whereas social workers in care proceedings have their reports checked by their manager and their lawyer before they are filed and recommendations Have to be agreed by senior managers. Cafcass is a shocking organisation and not fit for purpose at all. It's total luck of the draw who you get and how good they are. I'm not saying all are bad by no means but if you get a bad one you're screwed.

I still don't understand.
A 6 year old has told the police, her GP, Cafcass and maybe the school (who are already away of a DV situation), of emotional and physical abuse, and NO ONE is protecting that child?

Is there already a history of the father accusing you of parental alienation?

I don't understand why you breaching the court order would result in the father having more contact with your daughter and you ending up in prison.

Apologies if I've missed something. I feel a pit in my stomach thinking about this.

If you read the OP's posts you'll see she has

Because the judge has already decided that contact is in the child's best interest and so if the mum obstructs that she risks being accused of parental alienation and having the child removed from her! It happens

Why isn't the solicitor doing something urgent? They can do that, can't they?

@thursdaymurderclub You sound like a very good mother with how strongly you feel about wanting to protect your children and I can completely relate to your feelings (I've been there). The thing is though, the legal system is completely unfair and if the judge decides something didn't happen during a fact finding hearing, then it didn't happen (even though it probably did). Then the whole proceedings go forward upon that basis.

Risking going to prison is a short term viewpoint (again, which I can completely understand) but once you have things like that happen, you lose the moral high ground and undermine your own court case which in the end, will be detrimental for the children. If you went to prison for example, your child would end up with the abusive father as nothing has been proven yet and then the child is at even greater risk.

OP is doing everything the correct legal way. She needs to keep the judge on her side because despite what we think of them (and trust me some of them can be complete arrogant pigs), they hold a lot of power and if they order residency to be changed to the other parent, there's nothing you can do.

Again if you read the OP's posts that's what she's applied for