If a child discloses they feel unsafe when dad collects them from school, what should teachers do?

[Campari20]

Currently having major issues with DD going to overnight contact. She is scared and doesn't want to go. Clearly has articulated the reasons as to why to her father also but he refuses to listen to her.
Current contact is EOW Saturday to Sunday, one night. Handovers have been utterly awful.
I have submitted an application back to court to get the matter varied back to day contact, however still need to make her available for the current contact as awful as it is :( I am completely stuck.
I suggested a school pick up to DD instead as the problem is she becomes inconsolable at handovers when I am there.. it is also not a handover issue, it is a contact issue. Nevertheless, DD has told me that she will cry and scream and tell her teachers she doesn't feel safe going. Before I suggest this to her father, I was just wondering what the school would do if DD disclosed this upon pick up? would they make her go? keep her in the classroom and call me? The school are aware of the domestic history and do not think much of dad as he has called them ranting and raving about me etc. First day back of term today so not likely to get a call from school today so just wanted to know if anyone had experience of this.

I hope children can claim financial compensation from the court system one day for forcing them to spend time with an abusive parent. Until children ask for money as compensation this nonsense will continue. It’s disgusting and I hope your daughter is listened to in court.

Teacher would report to safeguarding lead, safeguarding lead will decide if external agencies are required immediately or add the incident to her file.

However, if the handover puts any staff at risk or exposes other students to anti social behaviour if dad kicks off then they won't be a part of it.

You risk DD fearing school too which sounds like a safe and happy place at the minute.

Your best bet would be to get handover to happen at a contact centre.

@thursdaymurderclub I understand your protective nature, we all have it in us but going to prison for breaking an order would just result in the child going to the father full time or be put into a foster home. None of which will benefit OPs child.

I also would advise against videoing for court as well as some judges deem that to be emotionally abusive and you could get accused of coaching them and setting the whole scenario up for the video.

Suspending contact while an investigation is under way isn't always the best course of action. At this point, allegations haven't been proven and there is currently no independent evidence so that could go against the OP regarding the care of her daughter. Of course if the police or social care have expressly stated no contact then that is different but it doesn't seem like that is the case here.

I know of a case where a father suspended contact with the mother due to very concerning things his son had told him. The father contacted the police and did it all the proper way but it completely backfired on him and he was ordered to send his son back to the mother's house even before an investigation was complete.

I was in a similar situation when my son was in year 4.
The safeguarding lead sat with me and DS. She did not know there was a Court Order and said that she thought I should not send DS to his Dad's. I knew this in my heart, but was scared to go against the CAO and also questioned whether I was being fair (long history of emotional abuse - I was still very fragile).
Her validating what DS was saying gave me the courage to go against the CAO. I phoned my solicitor straight away, and she reassured me it was a civil not criminal matter. I took it straight back to court for an arrangement of the CAO.

That teacher wrote a letter of support for the court.

I kept my son with me, told ex (who went mental), went back to court and contact with ex stopped.

Summary: If you are worried about the welfare of your child then you may (and should!) break a Court Order.

I thought in these cases a middle ground would be advisable ie. a relative doing the hand over or meeting in a safe place outside the home.

I can see why teachers wouldn’t want a school handover if it was going to cause distress to your child. That could lead to negative associations towards staff and possibly even school refusal in the designated day.

You have to find a way to make the handover less emotionally taxing. What do the professionals suggest involved in this case. Let them guide you.

They ve told you to exercise your right.
That s an indication of what to do.

The dysfunction in the family court system is a scandal and so many people don’t understand it. I really feel for you OP

for others saying she should simply breach the order, try having a read of https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/blog/2024-03-28/tbij-hires-uks-first-full-time-family-court-reporter/ it will blow your mind

op, have you considered requesting to work with a family therapist? If nothing else, it shows that you are being proactive. of course Dad is very unlikely to agree, but it may help defuse accusations of parental alienation. Obviously you need to be very careful that it does not come across that your daughter is overreacting as this could then easily get weaponised against you, so separately I guess you need to do what you can to reassure her. Absolutely hideous situation, you have my solidarity, I’ve been through it over the last 10 years, finally out the other side now but it’s been traumatic and one of the least helpful things is being told that you are not doing enough to protect your child when you know what the consequences of breaching the order could be

Then exercise it. When she refuses to be handed over, accept her refusal and offer to facilitate daytime contact with you nearby. Eg a trip to the playground, where you sit by the gate and read a book. Tell him you are offering it as a means of helping. Traumatising her with forced contact will destroy any hope he might have of a willing relationship. Keep a record of events. Video recur it if necessary (eg on a Ring doorbell) so the courts can see her distress, can see you being reasonable and helpful and see his attitude.

I’d also like to add that filming your child is a very stupid suggestion, please do not do this

I have gone into court with a actualletter from social services saying they recommend I cease contact and was shouted out by the judge who said he didn’t care what social services said, this is his court.

Verbal advice from them is meaningless. Front door for families will tell you to cease contact if you have welfare concerns and go back to court, again, this is meaningless and judges will not believe you’ve been told this

If DD is lying about safety because she doesn’t want to go w Father, then implications of her lies can be very damaging.
If true, then obligated to report.

School is obligated to report

this is awful for her. I wouldnt allow her to go to him. Poor child

I’d bypass the school and go straight to SS. This is awful, a child saying this cannot be ignored just because of a court arrangement.
You could call the NSPCC for advice but if your child is saying she feels unsafe why can’t SS get a court order to stop overnight, child stays in care of mother?

Do you have a solicitor/direct access barrister? I would get some proper advice

OP has explained why she cannot do this

Ok great, then they can get awarded full custody and you have no say over the safety of your child.

Now let me in on the side where that helps the child?

I have been told by the police and SS that they cannot advise directly to breach a court order but that I can exercise my parental responsibility to protect and safeguard DD.

So in other words they are going as far as they dare in telling you to with-hold contact using your parental rates to protect and safeguard your daughter, without actually telling you to do it. At this stage it's probably all they can legally do and I would be reading between the lines.

You also cannot be serious about now trying to have her stay another evening (Friday night) when you have all these concerns when you don't have to do this. That's hardly protecting and safeguarding your daughter. Sorry to be blunt, but it simply isn't.

If you feel stopping contact would make things worse, please chase up your solicitor. Every day if necessary, until you can get an emergency/temporary court hearing. The longer this goes on, the more damage is being done to your daughter, which will likely be permanent and affect her whole life. You are her main advocate as she is too little. Be proactive and not passively reactive as far as the court date is concerned

I can't imagine how heartbreaking for you this situation must be. I understand the courts have procedures in place for a reason, but it seems the reasons a surrounding a minority of people and not the majority. There really must be an overhaul of the system.

Have you got the police report? I agree with PP that having the school safeguarding lead make a report of concern about this, and see if you can keep a diary of everytime your daughter breakdowns about it and ask if the school can also record on their end so you have professional back up to go back to court with.

I understand why OP is reluctant to stop contact as the courts can be absolute bastards when it comes to mothers stopping contact without an order in place and can even end up awarding father more contact even against professionals recommendation.

and have they told you how they respond to a child who tells them she does not feel safe with her father?

The family court system is utterly barbaric. It seems to only serve abusive men. My experience of Cafcass has been equally horrific. We also had a woman who openly sneered at us and worked to exclusively protect the rights of a handsome yet highly manipulative and abusive man. Our complaints were upheld about her however.

I think you need urgent professional advice and instructions on what to do, based on your individual circumstances, @Campari20 . I'd suggest calling your legal representative and your daughter's guardian and asking them what to do.

Your daughter's guardian may be biased, but what does she say you should do when a distressed child is refusing to go for contact with a parent whom she has reported abusing her? Is she prepared to put it in writing and defend in court that your ex should be allowed to physically pick her up and carry her away, for example? Perhaps you could point out that you have concerns that such responses to your daughter's distress risk further harm to her relationships with her parents, and that you'd be willing to try alternative contact set-ups, family counselling, etc, to try to improve things. You could ask the guardian and your legal representative where you stand legally, if you force contact in a relationship where abuse has been reported. Is the guardian willing to put in writing that it is acceptable to force contact in that situation, rather than, for example, changing to supervised contact while allegations are investigated?

It's a challenging situation with high stakes, so you need experts to guide you through.

I’m actually gobsmacked that the courts work in this way. It goes against all of the safeguarding training that we receive in school 😣. Appalling.

I can exercise my parental responsibility to protect and safeguard DD.

what more do you need then? you can exercise your right to use parental responsibility.. sorted!

@Campari20 You are stuck between a rock and a hard place. For those who have not experienced the nightmare of the family courts, it is hard to explain. I am a GP carer who had to hand my gs1 over to his violent father for many years. Contact handovers were a true nightmare. It was forced in the school by the court, yet they did not even bother to ask the school who also did not want him there.

The school rang me and asked me to take gs1 home early to avoid conflict on the premises as my other gs was at the school so I had to be there and took abuse in front of other children. This of course made me break the court order.

I decided to take gs1 to a family member's home where he was safe and the door could be shut should issues arise. It went smoothly but I was taken back to court. The new Judge decided that he wanted a response from the school but on balance felt the stress it placed all parties under did not work and the order was amended to the new venue.

In the meantime father of the year was back offending. He was found guilty of GBH and ABH within a six month period. Cafcass had said I was wrong about his violence and the Judge went with this. Contact had to return to supervised involving me in further nightmare proceedings.

It felt like he enjoyed the court process, getting it paid for via Legal Aid whereas I had no representation. It was like an invitation to harass, stalk and abuse me, the person who was bringing up his child because he was unfit.

I do not recommend breaking a court order op. I know I did, but I felt dread every day worrying if I may be sent to prison. We did come out the other side op.

I don’t think it is fair to involve the school since technically the court order does not cover him picking up from school. As you say, school is a safe place, it would not be fair either for your dd to lose that safe place, or for school staff to have to deal with her upset when they would be obliged by the court to do so, which would also compromise your dds relationship and trust with school staff.

Until you can get the court order amended it will have to stay as it is. The only thing you can do is to refuse to hand over your dd. I don’t know what this would involve in terms of breaching the order. Is there a way to get an emergency review of arrangements before Friday? Is there a court appointed social worker or guardian who can intervene?

its irrelevant! contact is EOW Sat to Sunday... the OP only wants to change to Fridays from school so that school refuse to let the child go to their dads if they claim scared and upset! The OP is adamant thet do not want to breach the court order, yet by sending the child via school on a friday IS breaching that order.

i feel the OP is trying to get the school to do their dirty work! teachers have enough to do withou becoming involved in messy custorday cases.