If a child discloses they feel unsafe when dad collects them from school, what should teachers do?

[Campari20]

Currently having major issues with DD going to overnight contact. She is scared and doesn't want to go. Clearly has articulated the reasons as to why to her father also but he refuses to listen to her.
Current contact is EOW Saturday to Sunday, one night. Handovers have been utterly awful.
I have submitted an application back to court to get the matter varied back to day contact, however still need to make her available for the current contact as awful as it is :( I am completely stuck.
I suggested a school pick up to DD instead as the problem is she becomes inconsolable at handovers when I am there.. it is also not a handover issue, it is a contact issue. Nevertheless, DD has told me that she will cry and scream and tell her teachers she doesn't feel safe going. Before I suggest this to her father, I was just wondering what the school would do if DD disclosed this upon pick up? would they make her go? keep her in the classroom and call me? The school are aware of the domestic history and do not think much of dad as he has called them ranting and raving about me etc. First day back of term today so not likely to get a call from school today so just wanted to know if anyone had experience of this.

School have just contacted me. They have said they wouldn't invite a school handover because it is not a stable relationship and then it creates a problem with staff and DD potentially going and wanting to be in school.

I hope there's enough evidence that they can get the bustard and she doesn't have to see him anymore. I wouldn't do school picks up if she gets anxious. My DD has anxiety specifically about school and also about seeing her dad and the week where he picks them up on Sunday afternoon there's a lot of meltdowns and crying because the two anxieties are interacting. I'd keep school feeling like a safe place if you possibly can.

You could try doing handover in a fun place, some sort of distraction. I've actually found the best distraction for DD is getting her packed early and then playing games together and talking about other things, keeping the focus somewhere else so the anxiety doesn't have time to spiral out of control. How is she when she gets back? DDs only really anxious in the direct run up to it and after she comes back is usually fine about going again. I think it's not so bad for her as your DD maybe. I'm sorry you and your DD are going through this. I hope you can both get him out of your lives.

What is your exes view? I know if one of my kids reacted in that way to see me I wouldn't be forcing things

You really don't have a clue of the horrible consequences your advice could bring on OP and her daughter. If it was this simple she would have done it already.

Well, they can’t actually dictate who does school pick up. They obviously don’t want to be in the middle of it, if he becomes angry or abusive then staff may be in danger and they also would be forced to take some responsibility for your child if she refuses to leave etc. It puts them in a terrible position so of course they’ll say no, but they actually can’t stop you. If you arrange for dad to pick her up then dad picks her up. But just be aware of the position you are putting the staff in, which could be dangerous.

why would you send your DD to someone that is being investigated for abuse on her? surely her safeguarding outweighs any court order? you can refuse to let her go, and site the police reference numbers and give the court the social workers details?

i personally don't think its fair to put this decision on school. you are pulling yet another agency into the equation and thats not right! leave school out of it.

Just to be clear, stopping contact or withholding is not an option. I have dealt with matters in the correct way by submitting an application to vary the contact order whilst still making DD available for the current overnights. I will not force her to go but do get her father to come over and speak to and reassure and encourage her which he refuses to do. The last few occasions, contact has not taken place which is why I was exploring the school handover, but it seems this is now not an option as well. I need to be able to return back to court to say I have done absolutely everything I can to promote contact. Anything else will just make me look bad.

If you had any experience at all of the family court you'd know how incredibly difficult that is. Stopping contact won't do me any favours AT ALL.

My kids were a couple of years older than yours when the split happened - my youngest refused to even talk to his dad for over a year, and with gentle encouragement from me now sees him about once a month.

I will not be pushing a hysterical child out of my door. That was my line. This is not withholding contact, the children were both available, if he could persuade them to leave the house (which he couldn't be bothered to do - leaving it to me to get the youngest to come round to the idea of a visit)

But yes, a judge might see that another way - which is why I had it explicitly written in the court order that I would encourage, but never force.

Hang on, how can she be having unsupervised access when she is the victim/ witness to a crime he is being investigated for? Is this a joint investigation between the police and social services (what's called a section 47 investigation)? If so I would have expected them to give you advice to temporarily suspend contact - mainly for your DD's benefit of course but also from an 'achieving best evidence' perspective.

Her spending time with him could really harm any chances of a conviction, as well as the harm it's so obviously doing to her emotionally.

Hang on, how can she be having unsupervised access when she is the victim/ witness to a crime he is being investigated for?

Because that's how family court works.

My friend's child has made allegations (backed up by medical reports, security reports etc) of serious physical abuse. My friend still has to make her available for the court ordered contact, or suffer sanctions. It's barbaric.

Yes, but nobody will actually advise you to breach a court order.

I’m sorry OP if my comment was insensitive/incorrect. Safeguarding children is a huge part of my job but I guess I don’t understand the other side of it regarding the court order.

I sincerely hope you are able to put things in place and make some changes for your dd.

im fully aware of the court system, and no court order in the world would make me put my child in any kind of danger.. i'd go to prison for it!

its not about favours to you though is it, its about the safety and welfare of your child?

He of course denies ALL allegations. He refuses to acknowledge there is any kind of problem and puts it down to DD behaving abnormally because I am allegedly emotionally manipulating her.

Yes but I leave myself open to accusations of parental alienation and that I am not promoting contact. I have been in the court system long enough to know this is the way it is going to go if I was going to breach the order. I know I am putting DD at risk but she doesn't currently get out the car unless she is forcibly removed which I am not allowing, I ask her dad to positively encourage her and reassure and have even suggested he tell her he takes her for day contact. This is all met with deaf ears.

Unfortunately at times the courts are really fucked up. It should be the way you said, but it really depends on the judge you get and it shouldn't. Some judges believe court orders are sacrosanct and no matter how good your reasons are for breeching them they come down on you hard. Some judges are all too ready to believe its parental alienation and its the mum's fault the child is scared. You see this a lot on here people saying withhold contact but when court orders are involved that can cause more harm to the child you're trying to protect. In the absence of concrete proof you're relying on the judge to believe you and your child. It's a risky gamble.

OP, it is so awful that you and your daughter are facing this.

I am absolutely sick of the narrative that its better for children to keep in contact with their parents. No it bloody is not. Some children are far better off being kept away from their parents. Men who are violent are violent men. If they are violent to the mothers they should not have contact with their children.

This.

I would not send her. It's unconscionable. Record, and document via school safeguarding procedures etc.

That would be a really stupid strategy though wouldn't it? Because then your child would be with the Father full time.

If he's arrested I would expect them to say exactly that, in fact it's likely to be part of his bail conditions to not have contact with her.

In the meantime you've done exactly the right thing restoring it back to court. Can I check did you tick the box for an urgent hearing and made clear there is a police investigation?

Presumably Cafcass have been involved if there were previous proceedings, I would call them for advice - if the useless call handlers tell you it's a closed case and that they can't help you need to explain that you have restored the proceedings under the same court reference number and insist that you speak to the last named FCA as a matter of urgency.

So how did this situation arise? Who was it that reported it to the police?

Is it not possible to get an urgent 'abridged' hearing in court to temporarily suspend the contact arrangements whilst the allegations are investigated?
Your situation seems to fit the criteria perfectly.

Edited as OP had already answered my question.

Have you got a full written record of you asking her father to help and him refusing to do so? That will be helpful if so.